Does the Lee in W & L ruin it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh who cares. Most great architecture in history was built with slave labor of some sort. Should we tear it all down. We’ve all lost our minds. Focus on treating people in your real life fairly and kindly instead of on divisive woke-ism.

Well, many people do care. It’s not that the Lee in the name. It’s the Grand Old South atmosphere that refuses to acknowledge they lost the War of Northern Aggression. The school is proud of its heritage, and Lee’s presidency and the gravesite and make no effort to put in context. Which is fine. It’s private. It’s a free country. Spend your money and send your kid there. But many people are not okay with the harkening back to the confederacy aspects of the school and take real issue with that southern white mentality. It’s says something about the kid who chooses to attend. You’re right. It’s a selective school. I’m sure every kid there had other options. They chose W&L, which is so frat boy southern.

People are judged by the choices they make and the college they attend. If so many kids weren’t chasing that, why would this Board exist? And most W&L grads had choices. They made theirs. Liberty grads made theirs. Harvard grads made theirs. Smith grads made theirs. Etc And every grad school and future employer will use that as a proxy. It might not be fair. But, I encourage my kid to make theirs and attend a college they feel proud of. You should to. If it’s W&L, I’m sure you have your reasons and you don’t need to defend them. Unless, you think you do?

I think you might be a bit of a simpleton. Employers and graduate schools etc absolutely do NOT think in this way. At all.

[Anonymous]

W&M is far superior to W&L. Not even close

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:W&M is far superior to W&L. Not even close

Bullcrap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Few people outside of Virginia and maybe a few of its neighboring states have ever even heard of Washington and Lee.

And yet, W&L appears quite high on the USNWR and other national lists that people in California, Illinois and New Jersey read. However can this be? Could it possibly be your liberal bias shining through here?

Really, if you agree with PP's take, then it's only intellectually honest to have the same opinion -- 'nobody's heard of it' -- about several of the DCUM-sanctioned darlings of this forum:

Carleton
Grinnell
Macalaster
Claremont McKenna
Bates
Hamilton

and so on. You know, tiny little schools in low-density zip codes.

The translation of PP's comment is actually "I wouldn't send my kid there and neither would my neighbors in Chevy Chase Sec. 5." The business elite of Dallas probably say the same about Bowdoin.

Which is the point. My kid’s life goals do no include being a Southern “business elite”.

I think the issue with W&L vs Hamilton or Carleton is that you have to be in a very niche place to be able to say except “strong LAC”. With W&L, it’s string SLAC with douchey frat boys. We are literally sitting here as a family planning spring break college visits (aka, wander around campus and see what the buildings look like from outside). And I said very neutrally 3 minutes ago, “maybe we could see W& L since it’s nearby.” To which DH promptly said “so we can send out daughter there to be rape. No.” DD just rolled her eyes and said “Pass”.

The stereotype about who goes there is there in a way it just isn’t for most SLACs.

Oh hor$e$h!t. Oberlin is full of purple-haired theater geeks. Middlebury? pot-smoking trustafarians. Bates and Bowdoin = bookish Megs and Beths who write literary erotica late at night. Hamilton is full of entitled Twitter jockeys preoccupied with atoning for their lawyer parents' sins.

See, we can write mean stereotypes all day about LACs!

Also, why is it acceptable for your pithy DH to casually claim that males at W&L are rapists? That's a very serious accusation about a felony crime.

Anyway, your "point" was that "nobody" has "heard" of W&L outside of a couple of states. That your teen doesn't want to tour doesn't refute that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh who cares. Most great architecture in history was built with slave labor of some sort. Should we tear it all down. We’ve all lost our minds. Focus on treating people in your real life fairly and kindly instead of on divisive woke-ism.

Well, many people do care. It’s not that the Lee in the name. It’s the Grand Old South atmosphere that refuses to acknowledge they lost the War of Northern Aggression. The school is proud of its heritage, and Lee’s presidency and the gravesite and make no effort to put in context. Which is fine. It’s private. It’s a free country. Spend your money and send your kid there. But many people are not okay with the harkening back to the confederacy aspects of the school and take real issue with that southern white mentality. It’s says something about the kid who chooses to attend. You’re right. It’s a selective school. I’m sure every kid there had other options. They chose W&L, which is so frat boy southern.

People are judged by the choices they make and the college they attend. If so many kids weren’t chasing that, why would this Board exist? And most W&L grads had choices. They made theirs. Liberty grads made theirs. Harvard grads made theirs. Smith grads made theirs. Etc And every grad school and future employer will use that as a proxy. It might not be fair. But, I encourage my kid to make theirs and attend a college they feel proud of. You should to. If it’s W&L, I’m sure you have your reasons and you don’t need to defend them. Unless, you think you do?

The school is dealing with its heritage and continues to make changes (albeit late). Removing Lee’s name is even on the table. You don’t know that, which is understandable, but it doesn’t stop you from acting like an expert. That’s DCUM though.

Second paragraph is laughably stupid. W&L grads are very successful. The school ranks very highly by measures that attempt to capture value addition as demonstrable by income. The Economist had the school at number one. According to your theory they should be ranked near the bottom.

[Anonymous]

OP, the "Lee" doesn't ruin it, but it is very Southern (thus named after Lee)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, the "Lee" doesn't ruin it, but it is very Southern (thus named after Lee)

It isn’t named after Lee because it’s Southern. Please refrain from expressing opinions on things about which you are misinformed. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Certainly many may look at it negatively because of its name and reputation, particularly in the northeast.

Others will be impressed by it because of its "prestige", particularly in the South

Really the only thing to say about the school is, its an extremly WASP-y, extremely Greek (70%+), extremely "Old South", and not vey academically-focused SLAC.

Hell, even being a WASP from the Northeast is looked at negatively at the school. It's a very weird culture. Many schools in the Confederate have this weird animosity of Southerners but W&L really takes the cake.

If your child likes the heavy frat-culture of the school, Dartmouth is a much better choice. Still WASP-y, but with Ivy credibility and a sizable international and minority populations.

If you are Asian, Jewish, Catholic, Black, Hispanic, an immigrant of any kind, hell even Mormon, Quaker, etc., avoid the school like the plague.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:W&M is far superior to W&L. Not even close

True story, grad of a T3 ug and T2 grad school...

Never heard of W&M or W&L until I moved to the DC area around age 40, dead serious

Nice schools though

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Certainly many may look at it negatively because of its name and reputation, particularly in the northeast.

Others will be impressed by it because of its "prestige", particularly in the South

Really the only thing to say about the school is, its an extremly WASP-y, extremely Greek (70%+), extremely "Old South", and not vey academically-focused SLAC.

Hell, even being a WASP from the Northeast is looked at negatively at the school. It's a very weird culture. Many schools in the Confederate have this weird animosity of Southerners but W&L really takes the cake.

If your child likes the heavy frat-culture of the school, Dartmouth is a much better choice. Still WASP-y, but with Ivy credibility and a sizable international and minority populations.

If you are Asian, Jewish, Catholic, Black, Hispanic, an immigrant of any kind, hell even Mormon, Quaker, etc., avoid the school like the plague.

Serious question, do they have any alumni that are billionaires? What percentage of grads are millionaires by age 40? My impression is that the answer to both are close to zero

[Anonymous]

Rupert Johnson Jr.

[Anonymous]

Billionaire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh who cares. Most great architecture in history was built with slave labor of some sort. Should we tear it all down. We’ve all lost our minds. Focus on treating people in your real life fairly and kindly instead of on divisive woke-ism.

Well, many people do care. It’s not that the Lee in the name. It’s the Grand Old South atmosphere that refuses to acknowledge they lost the War of Northern Aggression. The school is proud of its heritage, and Lee’s presidency and the gravesite and make no effort to put in context. Which is fine. It’s private. It’s a free country. Spend your money and send your kid there. But many people are not okay with the harkening back to the confederacy aspects of the school and take real issue with that southern white mentality. It’s says something about the kid who chooses to attend. You’re right. It’s a selective school. I’m sure every kid there had other options. They chose W&L, which is so frat boy southern.

People are judged by the choices they make and the college they attend. If so many kids weren’t chasing that, why would this Board exist? And most W&L grads had choices. They made theirs. Liberty grads made theirs. Harvard grads made theirs. Smith grads made theirs. Etc And every grad school and future employer will use that as a proxy. It might not be fair. But, I encourage my kid to make theirs and attend a college they feel proud of. You should to. If it’s W&L, I’m sure you have your reasons and you don’t need to defend them. Unless, you think you do?

I think you might be a bit of a simpleton. Employers and graduate schools etc absolutely do NOT think in this way. At all.

Are you trying to convince me. Or yourself? Because if what you are saying is that no grad school or employer ever looked at the college you attended and made assumptions based on that, you’re the simpleton. Of course they do. It’s why people chase Ivy’s. But only the good ones, because Cornell. Alt right employers judge Oberlin grads and alt left ones judge Liberty and there are shades in between.

If you think no one judges W&L, multiple people on this thread have indicated otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Lions/sheep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh who cares. Most great architecture in history was built with slave labor of some sort. Should we tear it all down. We’ve all lost our minds. Focus on treating people in your real life fairly and kindly instead of on divisive woke-ism.

Well, many people do care. It’s not that the Lee in the name. It’s the Grand Old South atmosphere that refuses to acknowledge they lost the War of Northern Aggression. The school is proud of its heritage, and Lee’s presidency and the gravesite and make no effort to put in context. Which is fine. It’s private. It’s a free country. Spend your money and send your kid there. But many people are not okay with the harkening back to the confederacy aspects of the school and take real issue with that southern white mentality. It’s says something about the kid who chooses to attend. You’re right. It’s a selective school. I’m sure every kid there had other options. They chose W&L, which is so frat boy southern.

People are judged by the choices they make and the college they attend. If so many kids weren’t chasing that, why would this Board exist? And most W&L grads had choices. They made theirs. Liberty grads made theirs. Harvard grads made theirs. Smith grads made theirs. Etc And every grad school and future employer will use that as a proxy. It might not be fair. But, I encourage my kid to make theirs and attend a college they feel proud of. You should to. If it’s W&L, I’m sure you have your reasons and you don’t need to defend them. Unless, you think you do?

The school is dealing with its heritage and continues to make changes (albeit late). Removing Lee’s name is even on the table. You don’t know that, which is understandable, but it doesn’t stop you from acting like an expert. That’s DCUM though.

Second paragraph is laughably stupid. W&L grads are very successful. The school ranks very highly by measures that attempt to capture value addition as demonstrable by income. The Economist had the school at number one. According to your theory they should be ranked near the bottom.

No I just disagree with the economists rankings. I think colleges are where our kids take their first steps as adults and make independent decisions that will shape the rest of their lives. And thus what I judge to be much more important than ROI, and in fact priceless, is intellectual growth and growth as a human being who makes good decisions and has good values. And for that, as well as their overall happiness, their peers matter. See, you can tell me the value of a W & L education. And I can tell you I see a net negative ROI. Strong sell.

And BTW, my kids attend one of the SLACs you pop off popular assumptions about, and the popular assumptions are pretty much on target. Derisive and nasty phrasing. But not fundamentally wrong. And I’m fine with that. Because I find it priceless.

If you didn’t know there’s some truth there, it would get under your skin. But there is. So it does.

I can tell you people with any sense don’t judge 50 year old by what their college in 2021, but they look at their life. So if it’s you’re alma mater, tell them you are restricting donations until they deal with the name and move on. 1985 and 2021 are not the same thing. Now, if you’re kid is currently there, it tells me something about you and your parenting. And it isn’t that flattering.

But rather than shrug and say what do I care about what some keyboard warrior says about me and moving on, you’re going to go full Trump keep swinging. Which might be musing if it hadn’t good so old the last few years. I hire people. That’s my opinion of 2021 grads. So someone thinks it.

You keep swinging. I’m out. It’s late. And I just don’t care about W&L enough to do this any more.

Oh, and the thing about raping people. It is very serious. And many colleges need to take it much more seriously than they do. It isn’t just some man’s reputation being destroyed, which devalues the long term ROI, which is the huge issue for you with rape culture. And he said it because he attended a W&L peer school, very strong on the cross admits list, then and now. And he was horrified. He’s seen the women whose lives were shattered by that culture and how they were treated and does not want our son or daughter anywhere near it. My kid passed because she has common sense.