Deep Racism Problems at NCS and STA: Questions/Answers we can't get through admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not about GDS. Please start a thread about GDS if you would like to discuss that.

OP asked about racial experiences at STA/NCS and other peer schools. GDS is one of the other Big 3 schools.

What's clear from all these accounts is that the issues at hand are pervasive throughout the privileged cultures that all of these schools largely pull from. However, I do find the criticism of GDS particularly interesting, because there's no school in this area that can rightly claim to have made DEI as big a focal point as it has for decades and decades. Does the school still have work to do? Yes - every school and institution does, no matter how progressive. However, if we're at a point where GDS is now allegedly a toxic, racist culture, then we've kind of jumped the shark with our expectations for these institutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think there’s any getting around the fact that a certain percentage of parents choose the priciest privates in DC expressly because they don’t want their children in significantly black public schools.

Even the Black chancellor of DCPS, after arriving from Oakland, pulled strings to transfer his daughter from a majority Black public school to Wilson (ultimately leading to his resignation).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what the diversity director who quit mid-year had to say about why she left. Maybe this might help?

https://www.thewellscollective.com/post/forblackwomen

Did you quit NCS, or is she joining it?

Sorry: did she quit NCS, or is she joining it?

She quit.

And STA is FAR more conservative.


People, the proof is in the pudding at these institutions. They have next to no black faculty.
And there are scores of highly educated black educators in the DC area. My younger kids are in middle school
in DCPS and 50% of their teachers are black with degrees from amazing schools. If STA/NCS can't hire black
faculty there's a reason. And it's not salary--new teachers at DCPS are not making more than their counterparts
at STA/NCS.

Has it ever occurred to you that black educators might not want to teach at these schools? Oh, I forgot....everything is racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ Here's an article about the Black at GDS account: https://theaugurbit.com/2020/10/12/through-instagram-account-current-and-former-black-students-offer-scathing-criticism-of-gds-record-on-race/

From that piece: "At the start, Black at GDS received submissions of stories through a Google form, but eventually changed to accepting them in Instagram direct messages to better ensure the anecdotes’ authenticity. The account’s managers censor profanity and occasionally reject outlandish, inauthentic posts."

By their own admission, the account managers in that case took anonymous submissions via a Google form at the outset, like a lot of the other accounts - it was a good move to change to DMs, which are not prone to the same issues. But even they admit that they receive troll submissions and have to use their judgment.

Do I think 75% of the submissions on these accounts are real? Definitely. Are there fake ones mixed in? Absolutely. It's no different than your typical DCUM thread with someone going on about Crimson Commons and the Roster of Aces.

Many were Reddit paste ins slightly altered (my dad was asked if he was a butler when he picked me up!) or not even altered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not about GDS. Please start a thread about GDS if you would like to discuss that.

OP asked about racial experiences at STA/NCS and other peer schools. GDS is one of the other Big 3 schools.

What's clear from all these accounts is that the issues at hand are pervasive throughout the privileged cultures that all of these schools largely pull from. However, I do find the criticism of GDS particularly interesting, because there's no school in this area that can rightly claim to have made DEI as big a focal point as it has for decades and decades. Does the school still have work to do? Yes - every school and institution does, no matter how progressive. However, if we're at a point where GDS is now allegedly a toxic, racist culture, then we've kind of jumped the shark with our expectations for these institutions.

Victim culture never stops

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what the diversity director who quit mid-year had to say about why she left. Maybe this might help?

https://www.thewellscollective.com/post/forblackwomen

Did you quit NCS, or is she joining it?

Sorry: did she quit NCS, or is she joining it?

She quit.

And STA is FAR more conservative.


People, the proof is in the pudding at these institutions. They have next to no black faculty.
And there are scores of highly educated black educators in the DC area. My younger kids are in middle school
in DCPS and 50% of their teachers are black with degrees from amazing schools. If STA/NCS can't hire black
faculty there's a reason. And it's not salary--new teachers at DCPS are not making more than their counterparts
at STA/NCS.

Has it ever occurred to you that black educators might not want to teach at these schools? Oh, I forgot....everything is racism.

Did it occur to you that they might not want to teach at these schools because of racism?

D

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi everyone. Our mixed-race DC is looking at schools for next year (through virtual open houses and zoom discussions with administrators).

One of those schools is NCS/STA (I'd rather not do anything to reveal who our family is).

We have read with deep shock the @blackatsta, @blackatncs, @asianatsta and other accounts in the DC schools. They are horrifying--racist comments by students and teachers, race-based bullying, race-based exclusion, extreme bullying (telling kids to kill themselves, relentlessly), etc. Worst of all--kids of color who just seem deeply and unfairly unhappy. The schools have of course acknowledged these accounts and have issued statements and outlined their plans to do to address these issues. So we have the "official" line from the schools.

What we'd really like to ask and have answers to though are not things we feel like we can get from the schools and those "official" statements and plans. We know that this forum is imperfect, too, and we're doing our best to find families that attend there. We only know a couple, as we've only lived here a couple of years. So we hope that some here are willing to engage.

How deep and ingrained are these issues of racism? Is there even a chance that these issues will be meaningfully addressed by new administrators? Or are these deep problems that would take decades to root out? Deep problems that will potentially be perpetuated by sets of moneyed groups with long ties to the school who not only aren't really committed to change, but who are also part of the problem (this last question comes from something one of the few families we know there said about a subset of very wealthy legacies at this school who have no commitment to change, and often are part of the problem)?

Again, we've heard the speeches. We've read the plans. Our DC has expressed a desire for single-sex, and DC is a competitive applicant (please, this is not an invitation to tell us to "get in first." You can't get answers about these sorts of things in the very short time you get to decide post-admission, and as parents of a child of color, we owe DC as much due diligence as we can--which is made even harder by the pandemic).

We would deeply appreciate the perspective of anyone from these schools who is willing to talk about what's REALLY going on there on these issues.

So some blogs and anonymous posts are driving your decision in choosing a 45-55k/year private school decision? And that is quite an accusatory subject line take as fact. Perhaps you've made up your mind based on this 3rd hand info from blogs and just enjoy posting your post on places like DCUM. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what the diversity director who quit mid-year had to say about why she left. Maybe this might help?

https://www.thewellscollective.com/post/forblackwomen

Did you quit NCS, or is she joining it?

Sorry: did she quit NCS, or is she joining it?

She quit.

And STA is FAR more conservative.


People, the proof is in the pudding at these institutions. They have next to no black faculty.
And there are scores of highly educated black educators in the DC area. My younger kids are in middle school
in DCPS and 50% of their teachers are black with degrees from amazing schools. If STA/NCS can't hire black
faculty there's a reason. And it's not salary--new teachers at DCPS are not making more than their counterparts
at STA/NCS.

Has it ever occurred to you that black educators might not want to teach at these schools? Oh, I forgot....everything is racism.

Teaching is much easier at the privates: classes are much smaller, kids are generally well behaved. And yet they can't get black educators to teach at the Cathedral schools and similar.
Something is turning off the black workforce. Salaries are not that different for early to mid career teachers (DCPS teachers start at $50k and are still in the 50's after 5 years).

Just something to ponder in a conversation about why racial issues continue for decades at the Cathedral schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi everyone. Our mixed-race DC is looking at schools for next year (through virtual open houses and zoom discussions with administrators).

One of those schools is NCS/STA (I'd rather not do anything to reveal who our family is).

We have read with deep shock the @blackatsta, @blackatncs, @asianatsta and other accounts in the DC schools. They are horrifying--racist comments by students and teachers, race-based bullying, race-based exclusion, extreme bullying (telling kids to kill themselves, relentlessly), etc. Worst of all--kids of color who just seem deeply and unfairly unhappy. The schools have of course acknowledged these accounts and have issued statements and outlined their plans to do to address these issues. So we have the "official" line from the schools.

What we'd really like to ask and have answers to though are not things we feel like we can get from the schools and those "official" statements and plans. We know that this forum is imperfect, too, and we're doing our best to find families that attend there. We only know a couple, as we've only lived here a couple of years. So we hope that some here are willing to engage.

How deep and ingrained are these issues of racism? Is there even a chance that these issues will be meaningfully addressed by new administrators? Or are these deep problems that would take decades to root out? Deep problems that will potentially be perpetuated by sets of moneyed groups with long ties to the school who not only aren't really committed to change, but who are also part of the problem (this last question comes from something one of the few families we know there said about a subset of very wealthy legacies at this school who have no commitment to change, and often are part of the problem)?

Again, we've heard the speeches. We've read the plans. Our DC has expressed a desire for single-sex, and DC is a competitive applicant (please, this is not an invitation to tell us to "get in first." You can't get answers about these sorts of things in the very short time you get to decide post-admission, and as parents of a child of color, we owe DC as much due diligence as we can--which is made even harder by the pandemic).

We would deeply appreciate the perspective of anyone from these schools who is willing to talk about what's REALLY going on there on these issues.

So some blogs and anonymous posts are driving your decision in choosing a 45-55k/year private school decision? And that is quite an accusatory subject line take as fact. Perhaps you've made up your mind based on this 3rd hand info from blogs and just enjoy posting your post on places like DCUM. Good luck.

I presume you either do not have children at these schools, or that you do and you have read absolutely nothing from the administration nor have you listened to any community meetings nor have you engaged at all with the discussions happening at the schools. The schools themselves acknowledge that there are "deep" problems re: a history of racism and racist incidents at these schools. It is a FACT that the schools have used this language when speaking to the community about trying to make these schools more welcoming and inclusive. As just one of many examples, the incident of boys photoshopping the heads of members of their own community, their own brotherhood, atop holocaust victims, is a FACT, and it is also racist.

These facts might be inconvenient, but that doesn't make them any less facts. And the FACT that we live in a world where millions of people have decided that it is ok to pretend that facts don't exist does not make these things any less factual; it just means that a lot of people on this board and in this country are so weak-minded and so easily offended that they have to declare a personal war on facts just for their egos to survive the day.

[Anonymous]

awesome attitude. keep at it everywhere, make sure your kids have it too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what the diversity director who quit mid-year had to say about why she left. Maybe this might help?

https://www.thewellscollective.com/post/forblackwomen

Did you quit NCS, or is she joining it?

Sorry: did she quit NCS, or is she joining it?

She quit.

And STA is FAR more conservative.


People, the proof is in the pudding at these institutions. They have next to no black faculty.
And there are scores of highly educated black educators in the DC area. My younger kids are in middle school
in DCPS and 50% of their teachers are black with degrees from amazing schools. If STA/NCS can't hire black
faculty there's a reason. And it's not salary--new teachers at DCPS are not making more than their counterparts
at STA/NCS.

Has it ever occurred to you that black educators might not want to teach at these schools? Oh, I forgot....everything is racism.

Teaching is much easier at the privates: classes are much smaller, kids are generally well behaved. And yet they can't get black educators to teach at the Cathedral schools and similar.
Something is turning off the black workforce. Salaries are not that different for early to mid career teachers (DCPS teachers start at $50k and are still in the 50's after 5 years).

Just something to ponder in a conversation about why racial issues continue for decades at the Cathedral schools.

Black Harvard etc. grads go into law, medicine etc. If a few want to work for a few years in the community to burnish their resume before grad school, they will do it at a title 1 school. Teaching is still mostly a second earner or retirees game, very few BUPPIES are going to dedicate their lives to educating rich kids when they could be rich themselves. Not racism. Economics. Sorry Charlie.

[Anonymous]

OP,

As a fellow AA parent, I would advise you to do what you would have done in any case. Ask the school to put you in touch with current parents. Then use your spider sense. This is an intensely personal decision, and when considering these traditional schools, you might take into account the personality of your child (how are they likely to react if they have a negative or ambiguous interaction?). Also, how much mental energy are you willing/able to invest in monitoring/managing the situation? Will you enjoy working with teachers or school administrators whom you might/might not have to educate a bit? Please know that “zero” investment in this type of social-emotional support is not likely to be an option whichever school you choose for your DC.

I would also take a close look at GDS. I’m not a big 3 parent, but the GDS parents/students I know are all really smart and reasonable. In any event, if your child has a negative/ambiguous experience, it seems that GDS would be equipped bc of its history to work with your family in a constructive way.

It’s really too bad that you can’t visit campuses. (Duh!) My DC participated for a time in an activity that included a number of Cathedral children. DC enjoyed the activity, but when a relative cam to visit and had the opportunity to observe; relative immediately noted the conservative (not political or racial, just traditional) ambience. Again, OP, you seem like such a reflective person, I think trusting your instincts will take you far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what the diversity director who quit mid-year had to say about why she left. Maybe this might help?

https://www.thewellscollective.com/post/forblackwomen

Did you quit NCS, or is she joining it?

Sorry: did she quit NCS, or is she joining it?

She quit.

And STA is FAR more conservative.


People, the proof is in the pudding at these institutions. They have next to no black faculty.
And there are scores of highly educated black educators in the DC area. My younger kids are in middle school
in DCPS and 50% of their teachers are black with degrees from amazing schools. If STA/NCS can't hire black
faculty there's a reason. And it's not salary--new teachers at DCPS are not making more than their counterparts
at STA/NCS.

Has it ever occurred to you that black educators might not want to teach at these schools? Oh, I forgot....everything is racism.

Teaching is much easier at the privates: classes are much smaller, kids are generally well behaved. And yet they can't get black educators to teach at the Cathedral schools and similar.
Something is turning off the black workforce. Salaries are not that different for early to mid career teachers (DCPS teachers start at $50k and are still in the 50's after 5 years).

Just something to ponder in a conversation about why racial issues continue for decades at the Cathedral schools.

Black Harvard etc. grads go into law, medicine etc. If a few want to work for a few years in the community to burnish their resume before grad school, they will do it at a title 1 school. Teaching is still mostly a second earner or retirees game, very few BUPPIES are going to dedicate their lives to educating rich kids when they could be rich themselves. Not racism. Economics. Sorry Charlie.

Huh? Your post is insane and so out of touch with reality. So under your paradigm Ivy league educated black people are the only ones worthy of teaching in the private school classroom?
I know about 50 black teachers in the DMV and NONE of them went to an Ivy league school and just about all of them are fantastic in the classroom

I'm going to go bang my head into a wall now. How are people this far into their own bubble of privilege?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:awesome attitude. keep at it everywhere, make sure your kids have it too.

Not attitude, just more inconvenient facts for you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

As a fellow AA parent, I would advise you to do what you would have done in any case. Ask the school to put you in touch with current parents. Then use your spider sense. This is an intensely personal decision, and when considering these traditional schools, you might take into account the personality of your child (how are they likely to react if they have a negative or ambiguous interaction?). Also, how much mental energy are you willing/able to invest in monitoring/managing the situation? Will you enjoy working with teachers or school administrators whom you might/might not have to educate a bit? Please know that “zero” investment in this type of social-emotional support is not likely to be an option whichever school you choose for your DC.

I would also take a close look at GDS. I’m not a big 3 parent, but the GDS parents/students I know are all really smart and reasonable. In any event, if your child has a negative/ambiguous experience, it seems that GDS would be equipped bc of its history to work with your family in a constructive way.

It’s really too bad that you can’t visit campuses. (Duh!) My DC participated for a time in an activity that included a number of Cathedral children. DC enjoyed the activity, but when a relative cam to visit and had the opportunity to observe; relative immediately noted the conservative (not political or racial, just traditional) ambience. Again, OP, you seem like such a reflective person, I think trusting your instincts will take you far.

Just know that the school will march out the satisfied parents and not those whose kids are struggling. I know the family in our grade who is called on to testify on how great their kid's experience is. The school does not ask the other 5 families who are not as happy.
The schools know exactly who to use to speak for them when prospective families ask. You will not get an unbiased opinion--in fact, far from it.