FCPS - Why can't teachers do one hour Zoom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zoom is not a practical solution for online learning for a public school system.

And with regards to the time poster who brought up time stamps, that is irrelevant.

The google classroom and other school software monitors everything that is typed into the system.

For example, one of my kids classmates typed something inappropriate into a group document, then deleted it after the other kids read it. The teacher was able to see what he typed and he got reprimanded.

The security required for school usage is unique and more comprehensive.

This is not such a crisis for the kids that waiting a week or two to set up proper online learning is going to harm their education or create a hardship.

There is not such a crisis that they need to rush past the better practice just to get an easy and fast solution that does not work for their needs.

Fear of lawsuits should NEVER get in the away of education.

If you look at the federal response, the federal government is going to get sued and brought into arbitration by the public and public employhee unions for discarding a large number of regulations and union agreements, however they felt the need to continue to serve the public with great alacrity, and provide remedies for a number of issues was worth the risk of being sued at a later date. For whatever reason FCPS is either overly risk adverse or just incompetent.

There are a number of commercial solutions that address the very issues you raise. These could be brought online in no more than a few days as demonstrated by other local districts. Version trackers are notoriously well known in online document editing systems, they aren't unique to the public school sphere. Data logs exist in a wide variety of chat, teleconferencing, and collaborative platforms that are available commercially.

DP. Other districts aren't doing what you're saying. You're exaggerating or just uninformed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zoom is not a practical solution for online learning for a public school system.

And with regards to the time poster who brought up time stamps, that is irrelevant.

The google classroom and other school software monitors everything that is typed into the system.

For example, one of my kids classmates typed something inappropriate into a group document, then deleted it after the other kids read it. The teacher was able to see what he typed and he got reprimanded.

The security required for school usage is unique and more comprehensive.

This is not such a crisis for the kids that waiting a week or two to set up proper online learning is going to harm their education or create a hardship.

There is not such a crisis that they need to rush past the better practice just to get an easy and fast solution that does not work for their needs.

I disagree.

It's unacceptable.

You are wrong.

I disagree. I demand that local governments work with the same speed as the federal response.

I get that you don't like homeschooling or entertaining your kids, but this is not an emergency requiring an impulsove solution

Even if they were using zoom (not a viable program for school) you would not have a class tomorrow.

They need to work out curriculum, access, grading, etc.

They have extensive online classroom programs they can use. The online platform is not the hold up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zoom is not a practical solution for online learning for a public school system.

And with regards to the time poster who brought up time stamps, that is irrelevant.

The google classroom and other school software monitors everything that is typed into the system.

For example, one of my kids classmates typed something inappropriate into a group document, then deleted it after the other kids read it. The teacher was able to see what he typed and he got reprimanded.

The security required for school usage is unique and more comprehensive.

This is not such a crisis for the kids that waiting a week or two to set up proper online learning is going to harm their education or create a hardship.

There is not such a crisis that they need to rush past the better practice just to get an easy and fast solution that does not work for their needs.

Fear of lawsuits should NEVER get in the away of education.

If you look at the federal response, the federal government is going to get sued and brought into arbitration by the public and public employee unions for discarding a large number of regulations and union agreements, however they felt the need to continue to serve the public with great alacrity, and provide remedies for a number of issues was worth the risk of being sued at a later date. For whatever reason FCPS is either overly risk adverse or just incompetent.

There are a number of commercial solutions that address the very issues you raise. These could be brought online in no more than a few days as demonstrated by other local districts. Version trackers are notoriously well known in online document editing systems, they aren't unique to the public school sphere. Data logs exist in a wide variety of chat, teleconferencing, and collaborative platforms that are available commercially.

This is not about "fear of lawsuits"

This ia about maintaining proper protections for students.

Which means fear of lawsuits.

[Anonymous]

He is uniformed.

He is also going to be completely surprised when he realizes that online schooling does not mean that the teachers are going to entertain his kids for 6 hours so he can be left alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP hit the nail on the head: it is about privacy and security. ZOOM is not approved and will not be approved by FCPS because it does not protect students’ privacy. This is directly from the mouth of Maribeth Luftglass, the assistant superintendent for IT at FCPS. Principals asked specifically about using it, and this is the reason why.

Teachers are being trained to use Blackboard Collaborate which they can then use with their students. It’s not as fabulous as ZOOM, but it’s secure.

When friends ask why FCPS isn’t using ZOOM, please explain that it’s about security. It’s not about equity, because there is a tool for videoconferencing.

-a principal

Dear Principal,

I run the IT department for a federal agency. We use Zoom. It's plenty secure for PII.

So when my friends ask, I tell them it's NOT about security, because it isn't.

If you believe it is, pls link to a reputable trade study that says why it is. Heck, even something from IEEE, slashdot or Zimmerman's blog would do.

Signed - a guy that manages secure IT systems.

Um...

For a techie you know very little about security for children.

That is what the principal is talking about.

Zoom gives adult teachers unmonitored access from their homes to the students homes, and in the case of teens and high school kids, it will often be the kids bedrooms.

99.99% of the teachers and students will not be of a concern.

The concern, especially in a district as large as fcps, is that .01% of teachers as well as students who lack judgment as to what is appropriate (a teacher in anothe thread expressed concerns about her image being screen shot, manipulated and posted online which is a genuine concern. )

So when the principal is talking about "security" he is not talking about the same thing as you, who is working with equals (all adults) in a professional setting.

Dp here.

Isn't that true of any video conferencing application?

I'm unaware of any in home geofencing application for regular video conferencing applications.

My understanding is that with the school based software the schools have a paper trail, where for an outside platform like zoom there is no way for the schools to monitor when and how they are interacting

Also, the kids use a school specific email that runs through the school platform. They cannot use that email for outside programs, so it would be their personal email. It might be the same for the teachers as well.

Zoom generates an attendee list. Most conferencing platforms also include timestamps for when attendees join and exit a meeting. Depending on how its configured they should be able to set it up to generate and archive those reports if there are accusations of improper conduct.

I don't really see an issue with using an outside email. It's not difficult to get people to start using such systems now, and then role out an "official" long term solution later on that uses in school email systems and report generation. Presumably that is what other school systems and privates have done.

NP. To buttress the PP's argument: every Zoom conference I've ever been on has been recorded. Why wouldn't that be sufficient documentation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zoom is not a practical solution for online learning for a public school system.

And with regards to the time poster who brought up time stamps, that is irrelevant.

The google classroom and other school software monitors everything that is typed into the system.

For example, one of my kids classmates typed something inappropriate into a group document, then deleted it after the other kids read it. The teacher was able to see what he typed and he got reprimanded.

The security required for school usage is unique and more comprehensive.

This is not such a crisis for the kids that waiting a week or two to set up proper online learning is going to harm their education or create a hardship.

There is not such a crisis that they need to rush past the better practice just to get an easy and fast solution that does not work for their needs.

Fear of lawsuits should NEVER get in the away of education.

If you look at the federal response, the federal government is going to get sued and brought into arbitration by the public and public employee unions for discarding a large number of regulations and union agreements, however they felt the need to continue to serve the public with great alacrity, and provide remedies for a number of issues was worth the risk of being sued at a later date. For whatever reason FCPS is either overly risk adverse or just incompetent.

There are a number of commercial solutions that address the very issues you raise. These could be brought online in no more than a few days as demonstrated by other local districts. Version trackers are notoriously well known in online document editing systems, they aren't unique to the public school sphere. Data logs exist in a wide variety of chat, teleconferencing, and collaborative platforms that are available commercially.

This is not about "fear of lawsuits"

This ia about maintaining proper protections for students.

Which means fear of lawsuits.

No, it is not fear of lawsuits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zoom is not a practical solution for online learning for a public school system.

And with regards to the time poster who brought up time stamps, that is irrelevant.

The google classroom and other school software monitors everything that is typed into the system.

For example, one of my kids classmates typed something inappropriate into a group document, then deleted it after the other kids read it. The teacher was able to see what he typed and he got reprimanded.

The security required for school usage is unique and more comprehensive.

This is not such a crisis for the kids that waiting a week or two to set up proper online learning is going to harm their education or create a hardship.

There is not such a crisis that they need to rush past the better practice just to get an easy and fast solution that does not work for their needs.

I disagree.

It's unacceptable.

You are wrong.

I disagree. I demand that local governments work with the same speed as the federal response.

I get that you don't like homeschooling or entertaining your kids, but this is not an emergency requiring an impulsove solution

Even if they were using zoom (not a viable program for school) you would not have a class tomorrow.

They need to work out curriculum, access, grading, etc.

They have extensive online classroom programs they can use. The online platform is not the hold up.

I've got no problem homeschooling my kids. My kids haven't learned anything they didn't already know in montessori kindergarten other than virginia colonial history.

There are a vast number of parents in this area with STEM and high level policy backgrounds who are already coming up with ad hoc solutions, surely a system with a 1.8 billion dollar budget can implement something in a week.

[Anonymous]

Fyi, fcps has software in place to facilitate extensive online learning. It is all self contained through blackboard and google classroom.

The technology is not the issue. They have it.

Arguing for zoom and outside platforms is pointless because they are not needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zoom is not a practical solution for online learning for a public school system.

And with regards to the time poster who brought up time stamps, that is irrelevant.

The google classroom and other school software monitors everything that is typed into the system.

For example, one of my kids classmates typed something inappropriate into a group document, then deleted it after the other kids read it. The teacher was able to see what he typed and he got reprimanded.

The security required for school usage is unique and more comprehensive.

This is not such a crisis for the kids that waiting a week or two to set up proper online learning is going to harm their education or create a hardship.

There is not such a crisis that they need to rush past the better practice just to get an easy and fast solution that does not work for their needs.

Fear of lawsuits should NEVER get in the away of education.

If you look at the federal response, the federal government is going to get sued and brought into arbitration by the public and public employee unions for discarding a large number of regulations and union agreements, however they felt the need to continue to serve the public with great alacrity, and provide remedies for a number of issues was worth the risk of being sued at a later date. For whatever reason FCPS is either overly risk adverse or just incompetent.

There are a number of commercial solutions that address the very issues you raise. These could be brought online in no more than a few days as demonstrated by other local districts. Version trackers are notoriously well known in online document editing systems, they aren't unique to the public school sphere. Data logs exist in a wide variety of chat, teleconferencing, and collaborative platforms that are available commercially.

This is not about "fear of lawsuits"

This ia about maintaining proper protections for students.

Which means fear of lawsuits.

No, it is not fear of lawsuits.

Proper protections for kids=fear of lawsuits. When kids are social distancing, no physical harm is going to be done. From an IT standpoint, nearly every interaction on a computer system is logged to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Fear of lawsuits should NEVER get in the away of education.

If you look at the federal response, the federal government is going to get sued and brought into arbitration by the public and public employhee unions for discarding a large number of regulations and union agreements, however they felt the need to continue to serve the public with great alacrity, and provide remedies for a number of issues was worth the risk of being sued at a later date. For whatever reason FCPS is either overly risk adverse or just incompetent.

There are a number of commercial solutions that address the very issues you raise. These could be brought online in no more than a few days as demonstrated by other local districts. Version trackers are notoriously well known in online document editing systems, they aren't unique to the public school sphere. Data logs exist in a wide variety of chat, teleconferencing, and collaborative platforms that are available commercially.

+100
Has anyone READ the federal response? They are very clear that districts need to serve the many. Expediently. Zoom is an amazingly expedient solution. Most people pick it up when they are forced to jump into their first zoom call.. No training required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP hit the nail on the head: it is about privacy and security. ZOOM is not approved and will not be approved by FCPS because it does not protect students’ privacy. This is directly from the mouth of Maribeth Luftglass, the assistant superintendent for IT at FCPS. Principals asked specifically about using it, and this is the reason why.

Teachers are being trained to use Blackboard Collaborate which they can then use with their students. It’s not as fabulous as ZOOM, but it’s secure.

When friends ask why FCPS isn’t using ZOOM, please explain that it’s about security. It’s not about equity, because there is a tool for videoconferencing.

-a principal

Dear Principal,

I run the IT department for a federal agency. We use Zoom. It's plenty secure for PII.

So when my friends ask, I tell them it's NOT about security, because it isn't.

If you believe it is, pls link to a reputable trade study that says why it is. Heck, even something from IEEE, slashdot or Zimmerman's blog would do.

Signed - a guy that manages secure IT systems.

Um...

For a techie you know very little about security for children.

That is what the principal is talking about.

Zoom gives adult teachers unmonitored access from their homes to the students homes, and in the case of teens and high school kids, it will often be the kids bedrooms.

99.99% of the teachers and students will not be of a concern.

The concern, especially in a district as large as fcps, is that .01% of teachers as well as students who lack judgment as to what is appropriate (a teacher in anothe thread expressed concerns about her image being screen shot, manipulated and posted online which is a genuine concern. )

So when the principal is talking about "security" he is not talking about the same thing as you, who is working with equals (all adults) in a professional setting.

When the kids are at home then that becomes parental responsibility. Parents need to stop abdicating their responsibilities for monitoring their children. I see it all the time in the parents of some of my kids' classmates. The parents kind of throw up their hands and act like it is all the teacher's fault when, really, from what my kid says, it is much more like it is the kid's fault. The kind of training you're talking about begins and ends at home.

[Anonymous]

You are arguing a non issue. There is zero need for zoom, especially for the little kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP hit the nail on the head: it is about privacy and security. ZOOM is not approved and will not be approved by FCPS because it does not protect students’ privacy. This is directly from the mouth of Maribeth Luftglass, the assistant superintendent for IT at FCPS. Principals asked specifically about using it, and this is the reason why.

Teachers are being trained to use Blackboard Collaborate which they can then use with their students. It’s not as fabulous as ZOOM, but it’s secure.

When friends ask why FCPS isn’t using ZOOM, please explain that it’s about security. It’s not about equity, because there is a tool for videoconferencing.

-a principal

Dear Principal,

I run the IT department for a federal agency. We use Zoom. It's plenty secure for PII.

So when my friends ask, I tell them it's NOT about security, because it isn't.

If you believe it is, pls link to a reputable trade study that says why it is. Heck, even something from IEEE, slashdot or Zimmerman's blog would do.

Signed - a guy that manages secure IT systems.

Um...

For a techie you know very little about security for children.

That is what the principal is talking about.

Zoom gives adult teachers unmonitored access from their homes to the students homes, and in the case of teens and high school kids, it will often be the kids bedrooms.

99.99% of the teachers and students will not be of a concern.

The concern, especially in a district as large as fcps, is that .01% of teachers as well as students who lack judgment as to what is appropriate (a teacher in anothe thread expressed concerns about her image being screen shot, manipulated and posted online which is a genuine concern. )

So when the principal is talking about "security" he is not talking about the same thing as you, who is working with equals (all adults) in a professional setting.

Dp here.

Isn't that true of any video conferencing application?

I'm unaware of any in home geofencing application for regular video conferencing applications.

My understanding is that with the school based software the schools have a paper trail, where for an outside platform like zoom there is no way for the schools to monitor when and how they are interacting

Also, the kids use a school specific email that runs through the school platform. They cannot use that email for outside programs, so it would be their personal email. It might be the same for the teachers as well.

Zoom generates an attendee list. Most conferencing platforms also include timestamps for when attendees join and exit a meeting. Depending on how its configured they should be able to set it up to generate and archive those reports if there are accusations of improper conduct.

I don't really see an issue with using an outside email. It's not difficult to get people to start using such systems now, and then role out an "official" long term solution later on that uses in school email systems and report generation. Presumably that is what other school systems and privates have done.

NP. To buttress the PP's argument: every Zoom conference I've ever been on has been recorded. Why wouldn't that be sufficient documentation?

All that data is logged for 30 days minimum.

If FCPS has their own systems in place, then let them have at it. Sort out a grading policy later on if they need too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fyi, fcps has software in place to facilitate extensive online learning. It is all self contained through blackboard and google classroom.

The technology is not the issue. They have it.

Arguing for zoom and outside platforms is pointless because they are not needed.

No, the techies know better. They're not bothered by facts. They still know better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Fear of lawsuits should NEVER get in the away of education.

If you look at the federal response, the federal government is going to get sued and brought into arbitration by the public and public employhee unions for discarding a large number of regulations and union agreements, however they felt the need to continue to serve the public with great alacrity, and provide remedies for a number of issues was worth the risk of being sued at a later date. For whatever reason FCPS is either overly risk adverse or just incompetent.

There are a number of commercial solutions that address the very issues you raise. These could be brought online in no more than a few days as demonstrated by other local districts. Version trackers are notoriously well known in online document editing systems, they aren't unique to the public school sphere. Data logs exist in a wide variety of chat, teleconferencing, and collaborative platforms that are available commercially.

+100
Has anyone READ the federal response? They are very clear that districts need to serve the many. Expediently. Zoom is an amazingly expedient solution. Most people pick it up when they are forced to jump into their first zoom call.. No training required.

Fcps HAS the software.

They don't need zoom. They have software in place. They are worming on the other stuff.

Geez.

These poor teachers and administrators.