"Adult Swim" is a Violation of the Federal Fair Housing Act- discriminates against families???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My HOA pool still has the rule, how one goes about changing it legally?

Why would you want to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would this be a violation at a private swim club?

Does anyone live there? It is a housing law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Case-Law/Llanos-v-Estate-of-Coehlo

a federal court found thatthe association's rules designating "family pools" and "adult areas" in the complex and prohibiting childrenfrom playing in and around adult areas of the complex were discriminatory and violated the Fair HousingAct

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Case-Law/US-v-Plaza-Mobile-Estates#axzz2HIzX9l7t

Which is very different from a 15 minute break in the action during which adults with and without families may be in the pool, a situation that case does not address.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is also easier to schedule the day. We leave at the next adult swim, etc.

The clock has sixty little section on it and five big ones and four quarters and one top of the hour and one half and they can be used freely to schedule private functions without affecting the rest of the population.

Bless your heart. You're so clever!

When they eliminate lap swim, may your ears burn every time any child says: "But mom (dad)! Just five more minutes!" and when the pool starts getting cloudier with urine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would this be a violation at a private swim club?

Of course.

Fair housing laws apply there as well.

[Anonymous]

Lawyer and a snake were both hit and killed by a car.

Snake had skid marks before it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would this be a violation at a private swim club?

Of course.

Fair housing laws apply there as well.

It depends. You are thinking of "private" pools that are amenities of community associations related to housing, which is why they fall under the FHA clause prohibiting a discriminatory limit on privileges, services or facilities of a dwelling (eg., use of the housing complex's pool as a privilege of home ownership).

The Fair Housing Act covers most housing. But even then there are exceptions. In very limited circumstances, the Act exempts owner-occupied buildings with no more than four units, single-family houses sold or rented by the owner without the use of an agent, and housing operated by religious organizations and private clubs that limit occupancy to members.

I suspect PP is asking about private swim clubs not associated with housing at all, like a country club or private pool with no housing related/restricted membership. Those private pools are not a service or privilege of 'housing' in any way, so are not covered by the Fair Housing Act.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate adult swim and don’t see the point. It’s 15 minutes of every hour where the pool sits empty and the kids beg to go to the snack bar.

We belong to a private pool. For some reason I thought it was a legal requirement, but we are in MD.

My opinion, too.

It gives the lifeguards a break. It gives the kids a chance to take a break every hour, too. It also gives parents a nice time every hour when they kids are out of the water and you can make them leave!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate adult swim and don’t see the point. It’s 15 minutes of every hour where the pool sits empty and the kids beg to go to the snack bar.

We belong to a private pool. For some reason I thought it was a legal requirement, but we are in MD.

I love adult swim:

-adults deserve to have time to swim laps for exercise - it's often impossible to do so when kids are in the pool.
-kids need to be forced out of the pool so they hopefully go to the bathroom
-lifeguards get a break.

I would not belong to a pool that does not have adult swim.

[Anonymous]

Unless you want to pay for more lifeguards or just not have effective lifeguards, adult/lap swim is a really good idea. Lifeguards need breaks every hour, and if that means getting everyone out of the pool for 15 minutes every hour, so be it. It also definitely prevents pee in the pools-- you know the thing that causes your eyes to redden and your nose to smell that "chemical smell."

https://www.nspf.org/infographic/preventing-pee-pool

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/nspf-recommends-bathroom-breaks-every-30-40-minutes-during-practice/

https://www.redcross.org/content/dam/redcross/atg/PDF_s/SwimmingWaterSafety.pdf

https://www.redcross.org/content/dam/redcross/atg/PDF_s/LifeguardManagement.pdf <--- search break in the text

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3134895/
"Regular rotations, frequent breaks, and adequate staffing are absolutely essential for lifeguards to properly complete their duties."

And for those of you who think that the "adult swim" break is just to get the kids out of the water, these guidelines are for adults too. Because, well: https://www.businessinsider.com/michael-phelps-everybody-pees-pool-2016-8

Yeah: that lap swim is definitely needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate adult swim and don’t see the point. It’s 15 minutes of every hour where the pool sits empty and the kids beg to go to the snack bar.

We belong to a private pool. For some reason I thought it was a legal requirement, but we are in MD.

I love adult swim:

-adults deserve to have time to swim laps for exercise - it's often impossible to do so when kids are in the pool.
-kids need to be forced out of the pool so they hopefully go to the bathroom
-lifeguards get a break.

I would not belong to a pool that does not have adult swim.

+1.

It makes the pool more fair for everyone. Let's put it this way: for those who hate adult swim (and most likely were publicly embarrassed that they didn't know this very common rule so hate it even more) they get free reign to do whatever they want for 45 minutes of the hour. And then for 15 minutes, the people who were patiently waiting to swim a lap can go and swim a lap or two without getting splashed by that person's kid. So one person's inconvenience of 15 minutes seems not so bad in comparison to the other person's 45 minute wait.

And don't forget:

It's a way to check the pool for poop as we can no longer force parents to supervise their kids in the pool (thanks FHA and lawyers for THAT ONE) and we can't force people to put swim diapers on their kids. Or swim diapers at all, really. (thanks again lawyers!!!!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would this be a violation at a private swim club?

Of course.

Fair housing laws apply there as well.

It depends. You are thinking of "private" pools that are amenities of community associations related to housing, which is why they fall under the FHA clause prohibiting a discriminatory limit on privileges, services or facilities of a dwelling (eg., use of the housing complex's pool as a privilege of home ownership).

The Fair Housing Act covers most housing. But even then there are exceptions. In very limited circumstances, the Act exempts owner-occupied buildings with no more than four units, single-family houses sold or rented by the owner without the use of an agent, and housing operated by religious organizations and private clubs that limit occupancy to members.

I suspect PP is asking about private swim clubs not associated with housing at all, like a country club or private pool with no housing related/restricted membership. Those private pools are not a service or privilege of 'housing' in any way, so are not covered by the Fair Housing Act.

Yep.

If you are member of a country club, for instance, this is not an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Case-Law/Llanos-v-Estate-of-Coehlo

a federal court found thatthe association's rules designating "family pools" and "adult areas" in the complex and prohibiting childrenfrom playing in and around adult areas of the complex were discriminatory and violated the Fair HousingAct

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Case-Law/US-v-Plaza-Mobile-Estates#axzz2HIzX9l7t

Which is very different from a 15 minute break in the action during which adults with and without families may be in the pool, a situation that case does not address.

That case was very different from your basic 15 minute adult swim:

"The hours of access restrictions include those rules that prohibit use of the swimming pool and sun deck to children under 18 years old except during certain hours (i.e., between 10:00 a.m. and 12:00 noon, 9:00 a.m. and 12:00 noon, or 10:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m.). Defendants attempt to justify these swimming pool hour restrictions as "equitably accounting for the interests of tenants." Clearly this is not a compelling interest."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s also to clear the pool so they can see if someone is at the bottom. Remember that lady a few years ago in NJ or wherever who was at the bottom of the pool for two days before they found her? That’s why.

This. I'm sure some people don't like it at our pool but plenty of teens age 14+ and adults like it. It gives the 14+ teens a good feeling and a taste of adulthood when they can finally stay in the pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm so glad about it. It's about time.
You don't decide whether my kid is tired or not. I decide that. Do I get 25% discount on my kids since pool is not available to them 15 minutes in an hour?
If lifeguards need a break, then all need to come out of the water. Nobody should decide who gets to be in it and how long based on gender, age,race or what have you.
If you decide that my kid needs a break, maybe your grandma needs a break and you. The sun can make anybody need a break.
If my kid needs to use a bathroom, maybe your grandma should use a bathroom and change her swim-diaper.
We don't decide who takes a break and who doesn't based somebody's age. Same goes for swimming ability-you don't decide that my 8-year old who can swim, can't swim but your grandma who never learned to swim can, or she woudln't be in the pool. Grandma can't swim but nobody would suspect her because why is grandma at the pool. So, while you are too busy getting the kids out who have guardians more likely than not, you don't see grandma drowning because grandma adult and you expect grandma to know better. Grandma lost her top long ago and wondered to the pool.
Even when experience tells you that kids need saving more often than grandmas, you don't decide to keep them out at some point. And if you do, the same break applies to all. What's the big deal if breaks are so important?
They are not important. They are there to give grown-ups the time and many have come to love that time. Even if you love that time and have convinced yourself that this is the best for the kids, it's against FHA.
You don't want kids at your pool, you go to grown-ups only pool. You want kids out, you also take the grown-ups out for the same amount. Problem solved and all happy. Don't argue with the law. Go change it if you don't like it, but don't act like it isn't there. In fact, it's time to apply it.
You want grown-up only time, match it with children only time. All happy, all get a break at some point. except grown-ups don't want the break. Well, neither do kids.

Actually, yes you do!

At every pool I e ever been to a kids membership is substantially less expensive than adults. You’re getting a better deal than you think because you get upwards of 50% discount compared to an adult membership!!!! Think of the value!