The REAL issue with the proposals to shift boundaries & how MCPS can fix it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am going to point out, here, that lots and lots and lots of parents send their children to schools you think of as failing schools.

It is a free country. They chose those schools. We chose other schools.

No one is buying the myth that mixing up schools will improve the low SES achievement in any measurable way. It is simply a class war, run by people who lost their voice in the national policy decisions with the change of administration. That is why this social equity rezoning is only happening in MCPS. It is not a national trend. We just have this subpopulation of people who lost the ability to have a national voice, and have moved their efforts locally. I fully anticipate that they are coaching their kids to ride this wave into the Ivies, too. Hereditary politicians.

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[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We moved to the DCC from Potomac specifically because it was clear the educational outcomes for high-achieving children were vastly better than elsewhere.

LOL just spit out my coffee. No one has ever moved from Potomac to Silver Spring for the schools. Please just go back to your fantasy world.

I moved from bethesda to northern silver spring for the schools. it is amazing to see the difference between my kids and their former classmates when we get together. I have to say I was worried but thrilled with the results. my kids are doing phenomenal and are given so many unique opportunities that would not be available in bethesda. my friends are shocked at the leadership roles my kids have walked.into. Leading class discussions, mentoring fellow students, etc. not to mention that they have a sense of toughness and confidence that you can only get going to a.super diverse school. the looks on their friends faces when their bday parties are colorful are priceless. one of them even told their mom that my daughters straight A, but dark skin friends scares her!! why? because she is loud and outgoing! the world is only getting more colorful and torn apart. you can either hide at your country club or navigate it and its weaknesses and come out on top.

aren't you stereotyping here? not all black girls are loud and boisterous. There are quiet nerdy bookish ones as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a pure power struggle.

Since no normal parent will ever send their child to a failing school, it is all about money. No one will ever compromise their child's education. If we are rezoned, we are moving. If the house drops too much value, we will declare bankruptsy and move.

You can change boundaries, maybe, but you will never get our kids.

Wow. Really. Just wow.

My child is not your social experiment.

Our public infrastructure is not your own personal investment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We moved to the DCC from Potomac specifically because it was clear the educational outcomes for high-achieving children were vastly better than elsewhere.

LOL just spit out my coffee. No one has ever moved from Potomac to Silver Spring for the schools. Please just go back to your fantasy world.

I moved from bethesda to northern silver spring for the schools. it is amazing to see the difference between my kids and their former classmates when we get together. I have to say I was worried but thrilled with the results. my kids are doing phenomenal and are given so many unique opportunities that would not be available in bethesda. my friends are shocked at the leadership roles my kids have walked.into. Leading class discussions, mentoring fellow students, etc. not to mention that they have a sense of toughness and confidence that you can only get going to a.super diverse school. the looks on their friends faces when their bday parties are colorful are priceless. one of them even told their mom that my daughters straight A, but dark skin friends scares her!! why? because she is loud and outgoing! the world is only getting more colorful and torn apart. you can either hide at your country club or navigate it and its weaknesses and come out on top.

aren't you stereotyping here? not all black girls are loud and boisterous. There are quiet nerdy bookish ones as well.

DP. PP is mentioning a particular friend who has straight As and dark skin and is loud and outgoing.

[Anonymous]

MCPS needs to fix the reason why the DCC UMC and wealthy kids won’t go to their schools. Smaller schools, better teachers, more individualized attention would likely go a long way. Make the DCC schools public/privates. See what happens. Then maybe W kids want to get busses in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We moved to the DCC from Potomac specifically because it was clear the educational outcomes for high-achieving children were vastly better than elsewhere.

LOL just spit out my coffee. No one has ever moved from Potomac to Silver Spring for the schools. Please just go back to your fantasy world.

I moved from bethesda to northern silver spring for the schools. it is amazing to see the difference between my kids and their former classmates when we get together. I have to say I was worried but thrilled with the results. my kids are doing phenomenal and are given so many unique opportunities that would not be available in bethesda. my friends are shocked at the leadership roles my kids have walked.into. Leading class discussions, mentoring fellow students, etc. not to mention that they have a sense of toughness and confidence that you can only get going to a.super diverse school. the looks on their friends faces when their bday parties are colorful are priceless. one of them even told their mom that my daughters straight A, but dark skin friends scares her!! why? because she is loud and outgoing! the world is only getting more colorful and torn apart. you can either hide at your country club or navigate it and its weaknesses and come out on top.

Well that's nice, and I'm sure it works for you, but you're an outlier. The market data, which of course represents the collective value that we put on things, quite simply disagrees .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We moved to the DCC from Potomac specifically because it was clear the educational outcomes for high-achieving children were vastly better than elsewhere.

LOL just spit out my coffee. No one has ever moved from Potomac to Silver Spring for the schools. Please just go back to your fantasy world.

I moved from bethesda to northern silver spring for the schools. it is amazing to see the difference between my kids and their former classmates when we get together. I have to say I was worried but thrilled with the results. my kids are doing phenomenal and are given so many unique opportunities that would not be available in bethesda. my friends are shocked at the leadership roles my kids have walked.into. Leading class discussions, mentoring fellow students, etc. not to mention that they have a sense of toughness and confidence that you can only get going to a.super diverse school. the looks on their friends faces when their bday parties are colorful are priceless. one of them even told their mom that my daughters straight A, but dark skin friends scares her!! why? because she is loud and outgoing! the world is only getting more colorful and torn apart. you can either hide at your country club or navigate it and its weaknesses and come out on top.

Well that's nice, and I'm sure it works for you, but you're an outlier. The market data, which of course represents the collective value that we put on things, quite simply disagrees .

We, who?

[Anonymous]

It is a free country. They chose those schools. We chose other schools.

No one is buying the myth that mixing up schools will improve the low SES achievement in any measurable way. It is simply a class war, run by people who lost their voice in the national policy decisions with the change of administration. That is why this social equity rezoning is only happening in MCPS. It is not a national trend. We just have this subpopulation of people who lost the ability to have a national voice, and have moved their efforts locally. I fully anticipate that they are coaching their kids to ride this wave into the Ivies, too. Hereditary politicians.

No this has nothing to do with national politics or the disaster that is Trump.

I think what is really happening is that the while the property values in the W schools haven't skyrocketed like DC and VA they have rebounded enough to become unaffordable for many people in the DCC. People used to move to the DCC as starter homes and then go private or move around upper elementary school. Now, more people are getting trapped and they are angry about what they perceive Bethesda has and they can't get. The DCC crowd in MCCPTA started getting ugly several years ago and they really did/do just seethe about the Ws. You see it on this board too. Its typical class jealousy. They are the useful idiots in this whole fiasco.

The BOE and MCPS are operating on an entirely different level. They see the demographic shift with the number of URM kids growing faster than UMC kids. They see the trends from the 2.0 disaster and are coming to terms with knowing that the achievement gap is about to explode because 2.0 was worse for URMs than UMC kids. They are looking at schools that are GS6 and below potentially becoming GS 3s and GS 2s in the next few years. They have a choice. Let the W schools and mid level schools stay strong and watch while the surrounding schools fall off the cliff or sacrifice the better schools to keep the DCC and other low end schools from hitting rock bottom. They are choosing to hold up the bottom by sacrificing the top. Politically they feel they can survive W schools dropping to 8s or 7s more than DCC schools dropping to 3s and 2s.

The problem is that it won't work. The people in the better schools getting moved to bad schools will flee. The prices will drop in the former good school zones making them more affordable to people in the DCC who will move in. The DCC useful idiots get to live in Bethesda but the former DCC schools will still drop down to 2s.

This entire activity is solely about trying not to be as low as PG or Baltimore and being saddled with the brand of being one of the largest failed school systems -which sadly seems inevitable at this point anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am going to point out, here, that lots and lots and lots of parents send their children to schools you think of as failing schools.

It is a free country. They chose those schools. We chose other schools.

No one is buying the myth that mixing up schools will improve the low SES achievement in any measurable way. It is simply a class war, run by people who lost their voice in the national policy decisions with the change of administration. That is why this social equity rezoning is only happening in MCPS. It is not a national trend. We just have this subpopulation of people who lost the ability to have a national voice, and have moved their efforts locally. I fully anticipate that they are coaching their kids to ride this wave into the Ivies, too. Hereditary politicians.

When you're also advocating against dense zoning in your area, and against accessory apartments for "traffic" and "parking" reasons, you're preventing those of us who cannot afford your mortgages to "choose" your schools. Not exactly a free choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not at all. You presuppose that the boundaries themselves are a distorting factor, when the actual distorting factor is income inequality. So long as high performing schools are seen as a valuable amenity, the money will filer in and push lower SES individuals out no matter where the boundaries are. Tinkering around the edges only transfers equity from the families who are taken out of the district to those who are moved in. However, during the next sales cycle the newly "promoted" house commands the same price premium that the desirable district brings and lower SES brackets are priced out in the same way as before. Thus, what you do is get a temporary gain in SES diversity (to the extent that wealthier families don't immediately bolt), financially punish some families, give some families a windfall, and then have to do it all over again in ten years once you realize that fighting the natural progression of the market just doesn't work. The only way to break this cycle is to make all the schools high performing; but, given that the fact that the best and only statistically valid predictor of a child's educational outcome is their parents' educational attainment, you cannot "fix" the schools by moving boundaries, but rather you have to lift up the community as a whole, increase income across the board, and assist lower income families with childcare and other programs of the like. This is, of course, hard, so it won't be done. What will be done is that some feckless politicians will tinker around the edges, pat themselves on the back for increasing a useless metric like diversity (while ignoring the only metric the matters - performance), and ignore the income disparities that are the actual root of the problem.

It is a fact that the boundaries are a distorting factor. Otherwise you wouldn't have people supposedly paying hundreds of thousands more for a house zoned for a "good" school vs another house in the next block zoned for a "bad" school.

As Mason said to Dixon, "we have to draw the line somewhere" - but in all seriousness the point appears to be lost on you. Until we have equal performing schools people with means will invariably choose the higher performing school (as a whole - not to be read as every single person). The boundary itself doesn't make the school desirable but if the school is more desirable than others (for whatever reason - it's really irrelevant why), and attendance is based upon location, the market will do its thing, prices will rise in those areas and lower SES people will be pushed out no matter how many times you change up the boundary. Ignore the actual problem in favor of superficial "fixes" such as moving boundaries for "diversity" and you're just Sisyphus pushing his rock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am going to point out, here, that lots and lots and lots of parents send their children to schools you think of as failing schools.

It is a free country. They chose those schools. We chose other schools.

No one is buying the myth that mixing up schools will improve the low SES achievement in any measurable way. It is simply a class war, run by people who lost their voice in the national policy decisions with the change of administration. That is why this social equity rezoning is only happening in MCPS. It is not a national trend. We just have this subpopulation of people who lost the ability to have a national voice, and have moved their efforts locally. I fully anticipate that they are coaching their kids to ride this wave into the Ivies, too. Hereditary politicians.

When you're also advocating against dense zoning in your area, and against accessory apartments for "traffic" and "parking" reasons, you're preventing those of us who cannot afford your mortgages to "choose" your schools. Not exactly a free choice.

PPs are far too busy putting education above all else to do any of that stuff!

[Anonymous]

When you're also advocating against dense zoning in your area, and against accessory apartments for "traffic" and "parking" reasons, you're preventing those of us who cannot afford your mortgages to "choose" your schools. Not exactly a free choice.

There are plenty of excellent schools (currently) in MCPS that can be accessed for less than W prices. These are the exact neighborhoods that the countywide rezoning is targeting. These neighborhoods have accessory apartments, high density housing, and accessible points of entry for people with lower salaries. Think RM, QO, NW, certain parts of Wootton High Schools. A nurse and a policeman can afford a townhouse in any of them.

[Anonymous]

Add - also large parts of WJ HS. Churchill, Whitman, and BCC are less accessible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not at all. You presuppose that the boundaries themselves are a distorting factor, when the actual distorting factor is income inequality. So long as high performing schools are seen as a valuable amenity, the money will filer in and push lower SES individuals out no matter where the boundaries are. Tinkering around the edges only transfers equity from the families who are taken out of the district to those who are moved in. However, during the next sales cycle the newly "promoted" house commands the same price premium that the desirable district brings and lower SES brackets are priced out in the same way as before. Thus, what you do is get a temporary gain in SES diversity (to the extent that wealthier families don't immediately bolt), financially punish some families, give some families a windfall, and then have to do it all over again in ten years once you realize that fighting the natural progression of the market just doesn't work. The only way to break this cycle is to make all the schools high performing; but, given that the fact that the best and only statistically valid predictor of a child's educational outcome is their parents' educational attainment, you cannot "fix" the schools by moving boundaries, but rather you have to lift up the community as a whole, increase income across the board, and assist lower income families with childcare and other programs of the like. This is, of course, hard, so it won't be done. What will be done is that some feckless politicians will tinker around the edges, pat themselves on the back for increasing a useless metric like diversity (while ignoring the only metric the matters - performance), and ignore the income disparities that are the actual root of the problem.

It is a fact that the boundaries are a distorting factor. Otherwise you wouldn't have people supposedly paying hundreds of thousands more for a house zoned for a "good" school vs another house in the next block zoned for a "bad" school.

As Mason said to Dixon, "we have to draw the line somewhere" - but in all seriousness the point appears to be lost on you. Until we have equal performing schools people with means will invariably choose the higher performing school (as a whole - not to be read as every single person). The boundary itself doesn't make the school desirable but if the school is more desirable than others (for whatever reason - it's really irrelevant why), and attendance is based upon location, the market will do its thing, prices will rise in those areas and lower SES people will be pushed out no matter how many times you change up the boundary. Ignore the actual problem in favor of superficial "fixes" such as moving boundaries for "diversity" and you're just Sisyphus pushing his rock.

Exactly - MCPS can draw the line wherever it wants, including somewhere that's intended to reduce the segregation that people who have big bucks are willing to pay big bucks for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We moved to the DCC from Potomac specifically because it was clear the educational outcomes for high-achieving children were vastly better than elsewhere.

LOL just spit out my coffee. No one has ever moved from Potomac to Silver Spring for the schools. Please just go back to your fantasy world.

I moved from bethesda to northern silver spring for the schools. it is amazing to see the difference between my kids and their former classmates when we get together. I have to say I was worried but thrilled with the results. my kids are doing phenomenal and are given so many unique opportunities that would not be available in bethesda. my friends are shocked at the leadership roles my kids have walked.into. Leading class discussions, mentoring fellow students, etc. not to mention that they have a sense of toughness and confidence that you can only get going to a.super diverse school. the looks on their friends faces when their bday parties are colorful are priceless. one of them even told their mom that my daughters straight A, but dark skin friends scares her!! why? because she is loud and outgoing! the world is only getting more colorful and torn apart. you can either hide at your country club or navigate it and its weaknesses and come out on top.

h

Well that's nice, and I'm sure it works for you, but you're an outlier. The market data, which of course represents the collective value that we put on things, quite simply disagrees .

We, who?

We, as in society. Things will only sell for what people are willing to pay. If people, as a whole, are willing to pay more for certain things (like a say a house in Bethesda over the same house in Silver Spring), it is because those people value that thing more. The market is just a mirror of our collective preferences. Rail against it all you want, but absent going full Stalin, there's not much you can do about it.