Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)

[Anonymous]

I know PBES CES Writing program has an issue. The program is new and the teachers just dump homework on the kids. The children are refusing to do the work and parents are just complaining at this point about the Writing part.

On the comment about 98/99%, so are all other kids at the other CES programs 98/98 (Math/Reading)? That doesn't seem right.

On the rigor comment, that's what they think they can do with a 10 year old? What happened to creativity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know PBES CES Writing program has an issue. The program is new and the teachers just dump homework on the kids. The children are refusing to do the work and parents are just complaining at this point about the Writing part.

On the comment about 98/99%, so are all other kids at the other CES programs 98/98 (Math/Reading)? That doesn't seem right.

On the rigor comment, that's what they think they can do with a 10 year old? What happened to creativity?

Can you please expand about the new writing program? Is that something new that PBES is piloting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know PBES CES Writing program has an issue. The program is new and the teachers just dump homework on the kids. The children are refusing to do the work and parents are just complaining at this point about the Writing part.

On the comment about 98/99%, so are all other kids at the other CES programs 98/98 (Math/Reading)? That doesn't seem right.

On the rigor comment, that's what they think they can do with a 10 year old? What happened to creativity?

At our CES I believe yes for MAP. I don't know about Cogat. Kids share scores pretty openly and have never heard of anyone getting below a 99th percentile score although there might be a few. The reason I could tell is because DD has one of the lower scores and she is "just" at 99th percentile for her grade for both math and reading. Many kids are 99th percentile several grades higher.

[Anonymous]

On the comment about 98/99%, so are all other kids at the other CES programs 98/98 (Math/Reading)? That doesn't seem right.

As much as many DCUM posters may exaggerate these things, it seems statistically likely. The county mean is a little higher than the national average. What this means is that instead of 1 out 100 kids scoring in the 99% more like 1.2 out of 100 score in the 99%. When your looking at the top 2%-3% of all students the 98% or higher seems plausible for at least one exam. However, there are posts on this forum that indicate many kids were admitted to the regional CES with much lower MAP-M scores. This also seems likely since it's humanities focused and compacted math is different than CES.

It’s also important to understand what a 99% means on a MAP test. This isn’t an intelligence test like the CogAT. It doesn’t even measure aptitude. Students scoring in the 99% have all been exposed to concepts that are 1.5-2 years ahead of their grade level. In most cases, this means outside enrichment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The 4th grade CES curriculum is extremely challenging at PBES. The 5th grade teacher this year seems less set on pushing the CES curriculum and appears to pick and choose what he teaches in contrast to last year where the students were challenged to a very high level. Our 5th grader has much less classwork and homework than last year - by leaps and bounds....He's happy, but it is hard to get over the idea that 5th should be more challenging than 4th....

The CES programs really vary across the county. They have the flexibility to teach up to but also below what is in the CES curriculum based on the capabilities of the class. Some CES programs have very high flyers and other CES programs are filled with kids who are smart but would never make the cut in the other programs. The MAP scores at PBES are not very good in comparison to other CES programs so going slower in 5th grade here is good practice.

How can you possibly know this? MAP scores aren't reported.

!!!!!! You can't know this, overzealous parent. Please.

Maybe not a parent at all, but a teacher or administrator. They are on here too....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The 4th grade CES curriculum is extremely challenging at PBES. The 5th grade teacher this year seems less set on pushing the CES curriculum and appears to pick and choose what he teaches in contrast to last year where the students were challenged to a very high level. Our 5th grader has much less classwork and homework than last year - by leaps and bounds....He's happy, but it is hard to get over the idea that 5th should be more challenging than 4th....

The CES programs really vary across the county. They have the flexibility to teach up to but also below what is in the CES curriculum based on the capabilities of the class. Some CES programs have very high flyers and other CES programs are filled with kids who are smart but would never make the cut in the other programs. The MAP scores at PBES are not very good in comparison to other CES programs so going slower in 5th grade here is good practice.

How can you possibly know this? MAP scores aren't reported.

!!!!!! You can't know this, overzealous parent. Please.

Maybe not a parent at all, but a teacher or administrator. They are on here too....

or perhaps an omniscient supervillain!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

On the comment about 98/99%, so are all other kids at the other CES programs 98/98 (Math/Reading)? That doesn't seem right.

As much as many DCUM posters may exaggerate these things, it seems statistically likely. The county mean is a little higher than the national average. What this means is that instead of 1 out 100 kids scoring in the 99% more like 1.2 out of 100 score in the 99%. When your looking at the top 2%-3% of all students the 98% or higher seems plausible for at least one exam. However, there are posts on this forum that indicate many kids were admitted to the regional CES with much lower MAP-M scores. This also seems likely since it's humanities focused and compacted math is different than CES.

It’s also important to understand what a 99% means on a MAP test. This isn’t an intelligence test like the CogAT. It doesn’t even measure aptitude. Students scoring in the 99% have all been exposed to concepts that are 1.5-2 years ahead of their grade level. In most cases, this means outside enrichment.

I'm one of the folks whose child is in a regional CES with lower than a 99% on both cogat quantitative sub-section and MAP-M. Not that much lower, but lower.

I assume that my child's consistently high MAP-R scores and performance on the verbal section of the screening test were seen as balancing the lower quantitative/math scores for the purposes of the CES, but do not anticipate my child would be a strong candidate for the TPMS magnet, which is fine.

FWIW, my child has thrived at the CES and grades are excellent. This is not to say other children who were not admitted might not also have thrived, just that a lower quant score did not mean my child was doomed to failure in at a regional CES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The 4th grade CES curriculum is extremely challenging at PBES. The 5th grade teacher this year seems less set on pushing the CES curriculum and appears to pick and choose what he teaches in contrast to last year where the students were challenged to a very high level. Our 5th grader has much less classwork and homework than last year - by leaps and bounds....He's happy, but it is hard to get over the idea that 5th should be more challenging than 4th....

The CES programs really vary across the county. They have the flexibility to teach up to but also below what is in the CES curriculum based on the capabilities of the class. Some CES programs have very high flyers and other CES programs are filled with kids who are smart but would never make the cut in the other programs. The MAP scores at PBES are not very good in comparison to other CES programs so going slower in 5th grade here is good practice.

How can you possibly know this? MAP scores aren't reported.

!!!!!! You can't know this, overzealous parent. Please.

Maybe not a parent at all, but a teacher or administrator. They are on here too....

or perhaps an omniscient supervillain!!

[Anonymous]

As much as many DCUM posters may exaggerate these things, it seems statistically likely. The county mean is a little higher than the national average. What this means is that instead of 1 out 100 kids scoring in the 99% more like 1.2 out of 100 score in the 99%. When your looking at the top 2%-3% of all students the 98% or higher seems plausible for at least one exam. However, there are posts on this forum that indicate many kids were admitted to the regional CES with much lower MAP-M scores. This also seems likely since it's humanities focused and compacted math is different than CES.

It’s also important to understand what a 99% means on a MAP test. This isn’t an intelligence test like the CogAT. It doesn’t even measure aptitude. Students scoring in the 99% have all been exposed to concepts that are 1.5-2 years ahead of their grade level. In most cases, this means outside enrichment.

That makes sense. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Any updates on local CES in year 2024? My home ES is one of 4 ES offers local CES. Does that mean we may have higher chance to get selected or same chance for lottery based by luck only? Kid is 99% on MAP-P as a 2nd grader, 235 score on the latest one. I don't know reading score, but I know it is above reading level. No Cogat test has been administered yet. Is the criteria for getting into local CES the same as regional CES? Kid is special need with IEP, do you know if it is something that I could bring that to IEP meeting to talk about or it is completely random lottery based. Kid wants to get challenged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any updates on local CES in year 2024? My home ES is one of 4 ES offers local CES. Does that mean we may have higher chance to get selected or same chance for lottery based by luck only? Kid is 99% on MAP-P as a 2nd grader, 235 score on the latest one. I don't know reading score, but I know it is above reading level. No Cogat test has been administered yet. Is the criteria for getting into local CES the same as regional CES? Kid is special need with IEP, do you know if it is something that I could bring that to IEP meeting to talk about or it is completely random lottery based. Kid wants to get challenged.

You have a smaller pool and so more likely to be selected if your kid meets the criteria for the reading program. Math scores are not relevant for CES.