Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what it is worth, my understanding is that even those local centers that currently have two classes per grade could drop back to one depending on the year. Ostensibly, it is dependent on the strength of the year.

I don’t think that’s true. How on earth would they handle that from a staffing point of view?

The same way they handle it when one grade level has a lot more kids than another -- they shift teachers around. I've seen it at our school. My daughter's grade level has 5 classes and the one below and above her has 4. So there is shifting each year.

It doesn't work that way with CES teachers.

Unless something has changed, CES teachers are not specially trained. When my child was at a HGC...a neighborhood class teacher moved to a HGC class while my DD's HGC teacher moved to a neighborhood class. There is no special credential.

Was it a local center or regional?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prior to opening the local CES, PBES completely dominated the regional one because it has so many high-flyers compared to the other schools in the area. I suspect half the reason the county did this was to create more opportunities for students at the other nearby schools.

Although I feel for the poster whose child feels excluded, I have spoken with several neighborhood parents whose children are not in the CES and had very different and positive experiences.

One parent was happy their bright child wasn’t in the program because they felt they lacked the maturity to handle the rigorous workload and would get discouraged.

The other parent has a bright articulate child but had admittedly left their child’s education entirely to MCPS. Before the school year began they expressed some misgivings but when I asked them about it a few months ago they felt the school had done an excellent job of creating a broader inclusive community. They said their earlier fears weren’t warranted.

In both cases, the parents were fine with this outcome and happy with the school. I guess it goes to show you can't please everyone and that's especially true with pretty much everything MCPS does.

Well.....this is a little bit true and a little bit untrue. PBES did have a lot of kids at the regional center, but PBES is also substantially larger than any other elementary school that fed into that center. So, yes, they dominated the placements but they also had a pool of fourth graders that was twice or three times as large as any other school that sent kids to the regional center.

Giving PBES their own local center did free up spots for other elementary schools but it wasn't just that Takoma Park kids are inherently "higher flyers" than the other kids - they were pulling from a substantially larger pool.

It is also clear that the local center at PBES isn't just made up of kids who would have attended the regional center. The bar is lower, which is fine, but let's not pretend PBES actually has 50 kids per grade who would have attended the regional center.

/former PBES & CES parent

It's true, back when DC was at the regional HGC, PBES, our home school, sent about two dozen kids from their grade to the regional center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Prior to opening the local CES, PBES completely dominated the regional one because it has so many high-flyers compared to the other schools in the area. I suspect half the reason the county did this was to create more opportunities for students at the other nearby schools.

Although I feel for the poster whose child feels excluded, I have spoken with several neighborhood parents whose children are not in the CES and had very different and positive experiences.

One parent was happy their bright child wasn’t in the program because they felt they lacked the maturity to handle the rigorous workload and would get discouraged.

The other parent has a bright articulate child but had admittedly left their child’s education entirely to MCPS. Before the school year began they expressed some misgivings but when I asked them about it a few months ago they felt the school had done an excellent job of creating a broader inclusive community. They said their earlier fears weren’t warranted.

In both cases, the parents were fine with this outcome and happy with the school. I guess it goes to show you can't please everyone and that's especially true with pretty much everything MCPS does.

I also feel for the earlier poster but I think you hit the nail on the head. No matter what they do someone won't be happy. It's important to remember their mission is to educate children, not placate parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what it is worth, my understanding is that even those local centers that currently have two classes per grade could drop back to one depending on the year. Ostensibly, it is dependent on the strength of the year.

I don’t think that’s true. How on earth would they handle that from a staffing point of view?

The same way they handle it when one grade level has a lot more kids than another -- they shift teachers around. I've seen it at our school. My daughter's grade level has 5 classes and the one below and above her has 4. So there is shifting each year.

It doesn't work that way with CES teachers.

Unless something has changed, CES teachers are not specially trained. When my child was at a HGC...a neighborhood class teacher moved to a HGC class while my DD's HGC teacher moved to a neighborhood class. There is no special credential.

Was it a local center or regional?

Regional..there were no local centers then. I would think the local centers are much less likely to have special teachers since they are so much less selective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what it is worth, my understanding is that even those local centers that currently have two classes per grade could drop back to one depending on the year. Ostensibly, it is dependent on the strength of the year.

I don’t think that’s true. How on earth would they handle that from a staffing point of view?

The same way they handle it when one grade level has a lot more kids than another -- they shift teachers around. I've seen it at our school. My daughter's grade level has 5 classes and the one below and above her has 4. So there is shifting each year.

It doesn't work that way with CES teachers.

Unless something has changed, CES teachers are not specially trained. When my child was at a HGC...a neighborhood class teacher moved to a HGC class while my DD's HGC teacher moved to a neighborhood class. There is no special credential.

Was it a local center or regional?

Regional..there were no local centers then. I would think the local centers are much less likely to have special teachers since they are so much less selective.

It is possible that that neighborhood class teacher had had GT education training in the past - just saying... - but yes, I will not be surprised if that was not the case.

The only datapoint I have is one regional center, where for many years now ELA and social studies have always been handled by trained teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what it is worth, my understanding is that even those local centers that currently have two classes per grade could drop back to one depending on the year. Ostensibly, it is dependent on the strength of the year.

I don’t think that’s true. How on earth would they handle that from a staffing point of view?

The same way they handle it when one grade level has a lot more kids than another -- they shift teachers around. I've seen it at our school. My daughter's grade level has 5 classes and the one below and above her has 4. So there is shifting each year.

It doesn't work that way with CES teachers.

Unless something has changed, CES teachers are not specially trained. When my child was at a HGC...a neighborhood class teacher moved to a HGC class while my DD's HGC teacher moved to a neighborhood class. There is no special credential.

Was it a local center or regional?

Regional..there were no local centers then. I would think the local centers are much less likely to have special teachers since they are so much less selective.

It is possible that that neighborhood class teacher had had GT education training in the past - just saying... - but yes, I will not be surprised if that was not the case.


So you think all these new centers they have opened have specially trained teacher in each classroom? Because they are in the top 1/3 of the school population??
The only datapoint I have is one regional center, where for many years now ELA and social studies have always been handled by trained teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what it is worth, my understanding is that even those local centers that currently have two classes per grade could drop back to one depending on the year. Ostensibly, it is dependent on the strength of the year.

I don’t think that’s true. How on earth would they handle that from a staffing point of view?

The same way they handle it when one grade level has a lot more kids than another -- they shift teachers around. I've seen it at our school. My daughter's grade level has 5 classes and the one below and above her has 4. So there is shifting each year.

It doesn't work that way with CES teachers.

Unless something has changed, CES teachers are not specially trained. When my child was at a HGC...a neighborhood class teacher moved to a HGC class while my DD's HGC teacher moved to a neighborhood class. There is no special credential.

Was it a local center or regional?

Regional..there were no local centers then. I would think the local centers are much less likely to have special teachers since they are so much less selective.

It is possible that that neighborhood class teacher had had GT education training in the past - just saying... - but yes, I will not be surprised if that was not the case.


So you think all these new centers they have opened have specially trained teacher in each classroom? Because they are in the top 1/3 of the school population??
The only datapoint I have is one regional center, where for many years now ELA and social studies have always been handled by trained teachers.

Huh? I said I will not be surprised if MCPS moves a teacher without GT training to the center class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what it is worth, my understanding is that even those local centers that currently have two classes per grade could drop back to one depending on the year. Ostensibly, it is dependent on the strength of the year.

I don’t think that’s true. How on earth would they handle that from a staffing point of view?

The same way they handle it when one grade level has a lot more kids than another -- they shift teachers around. I've seen it at our school. My daughter's grade level has 5 classes and the one below and above her has 4. So there is shifting each year.

It doesn't work that way with CES teachers.

Unless something has changed, CES teachers are not specially trained. When my child was at a HGC...a neighborhood class teacher moved to a HGC class while my DD's HGC teacher moved to a neighborhood class. There is no special credential.

No, we are not credentialed in any special way, but we do work with a different curriculum and a different support model. Many and maybe most of us have some degree of training re: teaching gifted kids.

To your point, sometimes yes, CES teachers make other choices, and other teachers decide to teach in the CES. But we are not moved around as described above, the way regular classroom teachers are.

~CES teacher, formerly HGC teacher, of over a decade

[Anonymous]

Looking at PBES on school digger it ranks 300 while many non-CES ES schools in higher performing areas are in the top 10. PBES did pretty badly on the MD report card too. I've also heard that the CES program isn't as strong as it is elsewhere. I'm not sure if its the over crowding or something else but something is always off at PBES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For what it is worth, my understanding is that even those local centers that currently have two classes per grade could drop back to one depending on the year. Ostensibly, it is dependent on the strength of the year.

I don’t think that’s true. How on earth would they handle that from a staffing point of view?

The same way they handle it when one grade level has a lot more kids than another -- they shift teachers around. I've seen it at our school. My daughter's grade level has 5 classes and the one below and above her has 4. So there is shifting each year.

It doesn't work that way with CES teachers.

Unless something has changed, CES teachers are not specially trained. When my child was at a HGC...a neighborhood class teacher moved to a HGC class while my DD's HGC teacher moved to a neighborhood class. There is no special credential.

Was it a local center or regional?

Regional..there were no local centers then. I would think the local centers are much less likely to have special teachers since they are so much less selective.

It is possible that that neighborhood class teacher had had GT education training in the past - just saying... - but yes, I will not be surprised if that was not the case.


So you think all these new centers they have opened have specially trained teacher in each classroom? Because they are in the top 1/3 of the school population??
The only datapoint I have is one regional center, where for many years now ELA and social studies have always been handled by trained teachers.

Huh? I said I will not be surprised if MCPS moves a teacher without GT training to the center class.

SURPRISE!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looking at PBES on school digger it ranks 300 while many non-CES ES schools in higher performing areas are in the top 10. PBES did pretty badly on the MD report card too. I've also heard that the CES program isn't as strong as it is elsewhere. I'm not sure if its the over crowding or something else but something is always off at PBES.

As a parent of a kid in the PBES program, I'll say that you heard wrong. DC has had a fantastic learning experience at PBES. But keep thinking that "something is always off at PBES". That way the "experts" on DCUM can mind their own business and not keep trying to fix PBES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at PBES on school digger it ranks 300 while many non-CES ES schools in higher performing areas are in the top 10. PBES did pretty badly on the MD report card too. I've also heard that the CES program isn't as strong as it is elsewhere. I'm not sure if its the over crowding or something else but something is always off at PBES.

As a parent of a kid in the PBES program, I'll say that you heard wrong. DC has had a fantastic learning experience at PBES. But keep thinking that "something is always off at PBES". That way the "experts" on DCUM can mind their own business and not keep trying to fix PBES.

The desire to find fault with these schools is part and parcel of the rabid TPMS/Blair’ envy that permeates this board.

[Anonymous]

This is a popular graduate program for current or future CES teachers:
https://education.jhu.edu/academics/masters-programs/master-of-science-in-education/master-science-education-gifted-education/

Two of our regional center's teachers started it last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a popular graduate program for current or future CES teachers:
https://education.jhu.edu/academics/masters-programs/master-of-science-in-education/master-science-education-gifted-education/

Two of our regional center's teachers started it last year.

+1 I believe all of my kid's CES teachers had this credential

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a popular graduate program for current or future CES teachers:
https://education.jhu.edu/academics/masters-programs/master-of-science-in-education/master-science-education-gifted-education/

Two of our regional center's teachers started it last year.

+1 I believe all of my kid's CES teachers had this credential

At my child's HGC I believe 1 of the 6 teachers had a gifted ed background. She was also probably the least popular of the 6 so..