Ft. Hood

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

I think the motivation for the klansmen would be his extremism and his hate, not his protestantism. (Who said anything about religion? Who is obsessed here?)

The klansmen's religion does not even factor in your thinking. Yet, klansmen are known to belong to a specific religion. However, when a guy who happens to be Muslim goes crazy and shoots a bunch of people, just as any number of Americans do each year, you can't stop focusing on his religion. You write, "Hasan was a fanatical Muslim who murdered in the name of his religion." How can this be read in any way other than blaming Islam for Hasan's action?

[Anonymous]

Weren't the Klansmen those guys who burned the crosses? What's that all about if not religion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Weren't the Klansmen those guys who burned the crosses? What's that all about if not religion?

I think Jeff's point is that people consider them White Supremacists, not Christian Extremists. They don't go around trying to find out which ministers they have been talking to, to see if they are part of a Christian anti-government conspiracy. We all know that the Klan is a group that adopts Christianity as part of the justification for what they do, but in fact it is bigotry and economic rivalry with blacks that really motivates them. So we don't cover it as a radical religious movement. We cover it as a hate group. And to the extent that religion is discussed, we always consider them to be a group that distorts religion for their hateful purposes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Completely out there, I know. But why wasn't he married? A doctor, Arab, and (devout) Muslim. 39 and not married? Do you know how unusual that is? It makes me think of all sorts of issues he may have had that could have led to his breakdown.

He was in the military, traveling a lot. What woman wants to marry a military guy? Most Muslim parents will not give their daughter to be married to a military psychiatrist who travels a lot. He did not want to be in the military anymore. He was conflicted. As a psychiatrist he was probably hearing more than he could also bear. This is what I heard...so I think he just wanted out of the military and couldn't get out.

Why is that?

Because it will require traveling and involve some degree of risk during times of war.

I guess I don't understand the travel drawback. If he truly wanted to get married, I'm sure his extended family in Palestine would know many eligible women who would love to come live in America, get citizenship, and be able to provide her future children with everything America offers. He would have been an extremely attractive marriage prospect to many. The country my husband is from has seen various wars over the years and military life is a way of life for many. As long as the wife and children are provided for financially, things are good. Is it the life "I" would want? No. But many would. And as marriage is half the religion, I still find it very puzzling he wasn't married and still think it says a lot about his underlying mental state. Of course I'm just speculating, because that's all we are doing at this point.

It isn't uncommon nowadays for Muslims to get married later. This whole notion that Muslims get married earlier is not really as true in this country. Women get married around the same age or maybe just a year or two younger than American non-Muslim women. Everybody woman know got married between 25-28. Most men seem to be marrying between 29-32. But - my brother got married at 38. I heard that Hasan wanted out of the military. He was depressed that he had to go overseas. People who are depressed and hate their job, are trying to get out of their job, are not going to try to also get married. And this would be especially true for a Muslim man. He might have had some underlying issues that prevented him from getting married, sure, but I think that it was depression.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think the motivation for the klansmen would be his extremism and his hate, not his protestantism. (Who said anything about religion? Who is obsessed here?)

The klansmen's religion does not even factor in your thinking. Yet, klansmen are known to belong to a specific religion. However, when a guy who happens to be Muslim goes crazy and shoots a bunch of people, just as any number of Americans do each year, you can't stop focusing on his religion. You write, "Hasan was a fanatical Muslim who murdered in the name of his religion." How can this be read in any way other than blaming Islam for Hasan's action?

The Bush administration has so horribly demonized Islam that I think it's become a knee-jerk reaction for some to blame Islam for everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think the motivation for the klansmen would be his extremism and his hate, not his protestantism. (Who said anything about religion? Who is obsessed here?)

The klansmen's religion does not even factor in your thinking. Yet, klansmen are known to belong to a specific religion. However, when a guy who happens to be Muslim goes crazy and shoots a bunch of people, just as any number of Americans do each year, you can't stop focusing on his religion. You write, "Hasan was a fanatical Muslim who murdered in the name of his religion." How can this be read in any way other than blaming Islam for Hasan's action?

The Bush administration has so horribly demonized Islam that I think it's become a knee-jerk reaction for some to blame Islam for everything.

Are you for real?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think the motivation for the klansmen would be his extremism and his hate, not his protestantism. (Who said anything about religion? Who is obsessed here?)

The klansmen's religion does not even factor in your thinking. Yet, klansmen are known to belong to a specific religion. However, when a guy who happens to be Muslim goes crazy and shoots a bunch of people, just as any number of Americans do each year, you can't stop focusing on his religion. You write, "Hasan was a fanatical Muslim who murdered in the name of his religion." How can this be read in any way other than blaming Islam for Hasan's action?

The Bush administration has so horribly demonized Islam that I think it's become a knee-jerk reaction for some to blame Islam for everything.

Are you for real?

The same Bush who said "Islam means peace"????? The Bush administrations NEVER demonized Islam. To say that Hasan was a Muslim who shouted Alahu Akbar as he opened fire on over 50 representatives of the American military is not bigotry, it is simple observation. To inquire into all of those facts is not demonization of Muslims; it is just normal, full investigation. This PC'ness has gone to the point of utter, full blown ridiculousness.

[Anonymous]

yes, lets call those who point out the obvious "bigots" and continue to ignore the crystal clear signs out of fear of being accused of discrimination. the worry is that we miss the next fanatic who plans violence in furtherance of his political/religious views.

the next fanatic who shoots up a street corner could be on your street corner ....

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:yes, lets call those who point out the obvious "bigots" and continue to ignore the crystal clear signs out of fear of being accused of discrimination. the worry is that we miss the next fanatic who plans violence in furtherance of his political/religious views.

the next fanatic who shoots up a street corner could be on your street corner ....

"A Marine reservist armed with a tire iron beat and chased a man he thought was an Arab terrorist and even called 911 to say he was detaining the man, police said.

But the man he assaulted was actually a Greek Orthodox priest visiting from overseas who spoke limited English, police said."

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1050707.ece

I fear the ignorant more than the fanatical.

[Anonymous]

so you have gone from wanting to ignore the religious aspect, to suggesting that it not be ignored completely, to acknowledging the cause of the mass murder but still not wanting to take any actions that could prevent future mass killings because of a worry about alleged random examples of tourists being chased around? gotcha.

I'd rather have an adult discussion to find a way to best identify the few violent extremists so as to least disturb the 99.9% of peace loving Muslims and, more importantly, further the dialogue with Islamic leaders to encourage them to speak out against and condemn the extremists. The extremists kill many more of their fellow Muslims than the infidel.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:so you have gone from wanting to ignore the religious aspect, to suggesting that it not be ignored completely, to acknowledging the cause of the mass murder but still not wanting to take any actions that could prevent future mass killings because of a worry about alleged random examples of tourists being chased around? gotcha.

Almost none of the above is true, but then accuracy doesn't seem to be among your strengths.

On the other hand, you have been reliably consistent. Nothing matters about Hasan other than his religion. All other characteristics are immaterial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:so you have gone from wanting to ignore the religious aspect, to suggesting that it not be ignored completely, to acknowledging the cause of the mass murder but still not wanting to take any actions that could prevent future mass killings because of a worry about alleged random examples of tourists being chased around? gotcha.

I'd rather have an adult discussion to find a way to best identify the few violent extremists so as to least disturb the 99.9% of peace loving Muslims and, more importantly, further the dialogue with Islamic leaders to encourage them to speak out against and condemn the extremists. The extremists kill many more of their fellow Muslims than the infidel.

I'm obviously not Jeff. But you have got to cut out this schtick where you pretend to paraphrase a person's arguments, and instead you totally butcher what they say. You keep using this rhetorical technique, but it's cheap and ignorant.

[Anonymous]

ok, so its not cheap and ignorant to call others bigoted for labeling an extremist an extremist? thanks for pointing that out for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ok, so its not cheap and ignorant to call others bigoted for labeling an extremist an extremist? thanks for pointing that out for me.

In the words of Ronald Reagan, "There you go again." Too bad there's not an emoticon with a twinkle in his eye.

[Anonymous]

We seem to have dropped the topic in favor of ranting at each other. I suggest everyone take a deep breath, get a good night's sleep, and move on. Other than Jeff, nobody knows who's who anyway. Maybe I'm one of the combatants trying to withdraw gracefully -- or not.