Ft. Hood

[Anonymous]

I also think we need more guns on base! wtf??

I'm pretty pro gun-control, but now I think we need more people packing. If one kid at VT had a concealed gun permit than Cho could have been taken out early. So why weren't more people carrying on base? Even if it is a "gun free zone", then need to allow all officers to carry pistols.

[Anonymous]

I wish he had simply just killed himself.

[Anonymous]

We need to know more about this before making a judgment but I'm guessing that Hasan was having a mental breakdown and that his Islamic faith was secondary.

I really don't get trying to make a comparison between the imams and Hasan. The imams were trying to fly from point A to point B. Hasan killed a bunch of people for god's sake. Comparing reactions to the two is absurd. The only link is Islam.

That's like comparing the infamous homophobe Fred Phelps and Obama and claiming it's relevant because they're both Christians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also think we need more guns on base! wtf??

I'm pretty pro gun-control, but now I think we need more people packing. If one kid at VT had a concealed gun permit than Cho could have been taken out early. So why weren't more people carrying on base? Even if it is a "gun free zone", then need to allow all officers to carry pistols.

If students at VT were allowed to carry guns on campus, there would have been more deaths sooner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We need to know more about this before making a judgment but I'm guessing that Hasan was having a mental breakdown and that his Islamic faith was secondary.

I really don't get trying to make a comparison between the imams and Hasan. The imams were trying to fly from point A to point B. Hasan killed a bunch of people for god's sake. Comparing reactions to the two is absurd. The only link is Islam.

That's like comparing the infamous homophobe Fred Phelps and Obama and claiming it's relevant because they're both Christians.

what color is the sky in your world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to know more about this before making a judgment but I'm guessing that Hasan was having a mental breakdown and that his Islamic faith was secondary.

I really don't get trying to make a comparison between the imams and Hasan. The imams were trying to fly from point A to point B. Hasan killed a bunch of people for god's sake. Comparing reactions to the two is absurd. The only link is Islam.

That's like comparing the infamous homophobe Fred Phelps and Obama and claiming it's relevant because they're both Christians.

what color is the sky in your world?

Given that the Muslim-Americans I know don't run around killing people, I'd say the sky is the same color as it is for all sane, logical people. Like I said, we need to know more first before making a judgment but I haven't seen the Islamic faith turn US citizens (and non-citizens for that matter) into murderers. Where's your evidence that it does?

[Anonymous]

ok. guy had some issues, clearly. but his issues were all about his religion. when you scream "Allah is Great" as you open fire, I think it pretty clear that the attack was about religion.

does that mean all muslims are murderers? duh. just means this guy was. why is that hard to accept?

What do YOU think his motive was? He was having an affair with the wives of his 13 victims?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ok. guy had some issues, clearly. but his issues were all about his religion. when you scream "Allah is Great" as you open fire, I think it pretty clear that the attack was about religion.

does that mean all muslims are murderers? duh. just means this guy was. why is that hard to accept?

What do YOU think his motive was? He was having an affair with the wives of his 13 victims?

I have no problem accepting that the guy was a murderer. I just think that he probably went crazy -- like other people in the military who have snapped who happen to be Christians. (Those soldiers who were convicted of rape and murder of an Iraqi family -- do you think their Christian religion drove them to do it? I don't. ) Yeah, so he screamed Allah is Great -- doesn't mean that Islam was what drove him to kill people. But because I said it was secondary that doesn't mean that I think it is irrelevant or not a factor. Remember -- secondary comes after primary -- meaning it's second, not 10th, 20th, 500th or last. But in this case, I think crazy will trump religion.

And I still say there is no connection to a bunch of imams who as far as I know have no mental health issues, didn't kill anyone, didn't even get a traffic ticket for god's sake. It is absurd to discuss the two incidents as if there is some kind of real connection -- it just adds to the general atmosphere of Islamophobia.

[Anonymous]

goodness. how many christians, jews, hindus, budhists and every other religion have committed suicide/murders in the past 5 years that you can think of, where their victims were not known personally to the attacker? ok. how many muslims have done that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to know more about this before making a judgment but I'm guessing that Hasan was having a mental breakdown and that his Islamic faith was secondary.

I really don't get trying to make a comparison between the imams and Hasan. The imams were trying to fly from point A to point B. Hasan killed a bunch of people for god's sake. Comparing reactions to the two is absurd. The only link is Islam.

That's like comparing the infamous homophobe Fred Phelps and Obama and claiming it's relevant because they're both Christians.

what color is the sky in your world?

Given that the Muslim-Americans I know don't run around killing people, I'd say the sky is the same color as it is for all sane, logical people. Like I said, we need to know more first before making a judgment but I haven't seen the Islamic faith turn US citizens (and non-citizens for that matter) into murderers. Where's your evidence that it does?

I agree. Without more details, I can also only surmise his faith was secondary. Given that most Muslims whom I know, American or otherwise, fundamentalist or liberal, don't go around killing people, the heart of this problem is his own mental health issues. My guess is he turned to religion as a way to cope with his issues and it failed. I don't think it was the driving force for his murder spree at this point. If he was saying Allahu Akbar while shooting, it's more likely (without knowing more at this point) he was praying to God because he was sure he was about to be killed.

FWIW, I'm related to several very fundamentalist Muslims by marriage, and none would raise a hand to hurt a fly. Do I agree with their outlook on life? No. Do I think they have a higher propensity to be dangerous than any other person on the planet? Absolutely not.

[Anonymous]

please tell me what more details you need. he had grievances against his country that were political and religious in nature. he snapped.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:goodness. how many christians, jews, hindus, budhists and every other religion have committed suicide/murders in the past 5 years that you can think of, where their victims were not known personally to the attacker? ok. how many muslims have done that?

Okay now you have crossed the line into pure bigotry.

Scott Roeder, a fundamentalist Christian, is currently being held for murdering Dr. George Tiller.

Eric Rudolph, another Christian fundamentalist, bombed the Atlanta Olympics as well as a number of abortion clinics.

The Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka, predominantly Hindu, committed all kinds of suicide bombings, including the suicide bombing by a woman that killed Rajiv Gandhi.

While it hasn't been in the last five years, the Catholic IRA committed plenty of murders and bombings, as did many of the Protestant groups opposing it.

Just last month, Israeli authorities arrested Yaakov (Jack) Teitel, a Jewish settler in the West Bank and charged him bomb attacks and a string of murders. The attacks were all religiously motivated. Famously, Israeli Prime Minster Rabin was assassinated by a Jewish extremist.

There are thousands of horrific attacks committed annually in Africa and Asia (especially India) that you never hear about.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:goodness. how many christians, jews, hindus, budhists and every other religion have committed suicide/murders in the past 5 years that you can think of, where their victims were not known personally to the attacker? ok. how many muslims have done that?

Okay now you have crossed the line into pure bigotry.

Scott Roeder, a fundamentalist Christian, is currently being held for murdering Dr. George Tiller.

Eric Rudolph, another Christian fundamentalist, bombed the Atlanta Olympics as well as a number of abortion clinics.

The Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka, predominantly Hindu, committed all kinds of suicide bombings, including the suicide bombing by a woman that killed Rajiv Gandhi.

While it hasn't been in the last five years, the Catholic IRA committed plenty of murders and bombings, as did many of the Protestant groups opposing it.

Just last month, Israeli authorities arrested Yaakov (Jack) Teitel, a Jewish settler in the West Bank and charged him bomb attacks and a string of murders. The attacks were all religiously motivated. Famously, Israeli Prime Minster Rabin was assassinated by a Jewish extremist.

There are thousands of horrific attacks committed annually in Africa and Asia (especially India) that you never hear about.

Ritter committed suicide and didn't know of his victim personally? Rudolph was a suicide bomber? The IRA bombings were suicide bombings? no, no and no. it is certainly not bigotry to recognize that a SMALL part of modern muslim culture celebrates the suicide bombing culture, the Ft. Hood shooter was on record as defending suicide bombing, and that clearly his twisted faith was the primary motive in his attack. political correctness run amok when you cannot even focus on the obvious without fear of offending others.

This was good and sums up my thoughts:

Even if you are concerned that it would be terribly unfair if all Muslims were to be tarred by Major Hasan's brush, it is, to put it at its mildest, the grossest bad taste to default every single time within minutes to the position that what's of most interest about an actual atrocity with real victims is that it may provoke an entirely hypothetical atrocity with entirely hypothetical victims. I refer you yet again to this note-perfect parody:

British Muslims Fear Repercussions Over Tomorrow's Train Bombing

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Ritter committed suicide and didn't know of his victim personally? Rudolph was a suicide bomber? The IRA bombings were suicide bombings? no, no and no. it is certainly not bigotry to recognize that a SMALL part of modern muslim culture celebrates the suicide bombing culture, the Ft. Hood shooter was on record as defending suicide bombing, and that clearly his twisted faith was the primary motive in his attack. political correctness run amok when you cannot even focus on the obvious without fear of offending others.

This was good and sums up my thoughts:

Even if you are concerned that it would be terribly unfair if all Muslims were to be tarred by Major Hasan's brush, it is, to put it at its mildest, the grossest bad taste to default every single time within minutes to the position that what's of most interest about an actual atrocity with real victims is that it may provoke an entirely hypothetical atrocity with entirely hypothetical victims. I refer you yet again to this note-perfect parody:

British Muslims Fear Repercussions Over Tomorrow's Train Bombing

I do you the honor of reading your messages carefully. You asked about members of various religions that "have committed suicide/murders" -- which by any proper English reading means committed suicide or murders, but which I interpreted as suicide bombings or murders. If you meant something different, you are going to have to write in a way that can be understood.

The defense of suicide bombing has not been authoritatively linked to Major Hasan. Even if it is, or especially if it is, I would note that he did not commit a suicide bombing. His crime was very similar to Cho's. If Cho had been a Muslim, you would be blaming his religion for his crime as well. This is not an issue of political correctness. It is an issue of jumping to conclusions based on prejudice. Sgt. John M. Russell killed 5 fellow US troops this past May in Iraq. If he had been a Muslim, you would be blaming his religion as well. Sadly, in America, a wacko taking a gun and shooting everyone in sight is not an unusual event. But, if a Muslim is involved, it is suddenly different.

Yes, a small number of Muslims honors suicide bombers. Just as a small number of Americans thinks we should nuke the Middle East. Tom Tancredo, who was actually running for US president at the time, went on “This Week” on ABC and suggested nuking Mecca and Medina. Tancredo, of course, is closely aligned with the Christian right. Probably the same percentage of Muslims supports suicide bombings as the percentage of Americans that supports nuking Mecca and Medina.

There are blood thirsty and violent people of all religions and some with no religion. There is a focus on Muslims, not because there is an inordinate number of violent ones, but because that's who the media in the US focuses on and it's the first thing people like you jump to regardless of all other factors.

[Anonymous]

Cho and the Columbine folks knew some of their victims. They were bullied. Similar to the shooter in Orlando this weekend (ex-employee). This is much more similar to a suicide bombing. Now I admit Hasan was not a technical "suicide bomber", but all indications were he thought he was going out that day. i.e., he was not planning an escape or get-a-way.

and please, 99% of the thousands of suicide bombings have been committed by muslims.