Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone on another thread suggested that it takes $10 million a year to be upper class, implying that someone earning $5 million a year is merely upper-middle. This speaks to the skewed perspective of DCUM posters, and I thought it would interesting to inject a dose of reality. The following is how I would describe a few tyoical distinctions of an upper-middle lifestyle (that approximately 15% of the population enjoy) versus the middle-class lifestyle (that about 50% of the population lives).

Upper-middle class:

1) Housing: A 2500+ SF single-family house in the suburbs, or an upscale townhouse or condo (or luxury apartment) in an affluent suburbs or the city proper (think Berhesda, McLean, DC)
2) Vacations: a 2-week luxury cruise to the Baltics, a winter ski trip, or a few trips to the (owned) beach condo or house
3) Entertainment: dinner at the Capital Grille, Kennedy Center opera or ballet, club-level seats at the Nationals
4) Education: Public school in a better-rated district or private

Middle-class:

1) Housing: An older house of less than 2500 sf in the suburbs, a townhouse, or an apartment in the suburbs (think Gaithersburg, Silver Spring, Rockville)
2) Vacations: a 1-week cruise to the Caribbean, a 4-day trip trip to Disneyworld, or a week in a beach rental
3) Entertsinment: Dinner at Outback, the movies, regular,stadium seating at the ballpark
4) Education: Public school

So, what am I, op?

5 bedroom house just shy of 2,500 in MoCo (not Bethesda, but not Germantown either).

Both DH and I have advanced degrees and professional careers. No student loans.

Travel: spring break in the Caribbean (sometimes a cruise, sometimes a resort). DE beach trips (stay at a friend's house), lots of long weekends (NYC, philly, Hershey, Williamsburg), big summer trip (alternating road trips and air travel each summer).

We prefer minor league baseball and hockey and college sports (less hassle).

Public schools (good school pyramid; not a W school, but farms are 9 or less).

Kids will likely go to UMCP (we can easily cover tuition and living expenses).

We hate skiing. And my husband would rather cut off his arm than go to the ballet.

Since when is Capital Grille fancy? We like pizza. And crabs. We'll drive to bay a handful of times each summer to eat crabs.

You are definitely poor.

Sigh.

Too bad our $230k income means we are poor.

You people are buts. Truly.

Not poor but middle class, nowhere near upper middle class for sure.

Check out this calculator guys, it’s a bit more objective than your personal opinion:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/05/11/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

Some examples for DC metro by putting in some random numbers for a 4 person household:

50k - lower
100k - middle
150k - middle
200k - upper middle
300k - upper

It sure makes you mad that someone would consider you middle class rather than upper middle. But as a pp stated being upper class is nothing to do with how much you make. You are solidly middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone on another thread suggested that it takes $10 million a year to be upper class, implying that someone earning $5 million a year is merely upper-middle. This speaks to the skewed perspective of DCUM posters, and I thought it would interesting to inject a dose of reality. The following is how I would describe a few tyoical distinctions of an upper-middle lifestyle (that approximately 15% of the population enjoy) versus the middle-class lifestyle (that about 50% of the population lives).

Upper-middle class:

1) Housing: A 2500+ SF single-family house in the suburbs, or an upscale townhouse or condo (or luxury apartment) in an affluent suburbs or the city proper (think Berhesda, McLean, DC)
2) Vacations: a 2-week luxury cruise to the Baltics, a winter ski trip, or a few trips to the (owned) beach condo or house
3) Entertainment: dinner at the Capital Grille, Kennedy Center opera or ballet, club-level seats at the Nationals
4) Education: Public school in a better-rated district or private

Middle-class:

1) Housing: An older house of less than 2500 sf in the suburbs, a townhouse, or an apartment in the suburbs (think Gaithersburg, Silver Spring, Rockville)
2) Vacations: a 1-week cruise to the Caribbean, a 4-day trip trip to Disneyworld, or a week in a beach rental
3) Entertsinment: Dinner at Outback, the movies, regular,stadium seating at the ballpark
4) Education: Public school

So, what am I, op?

5 bedroom house just shy of 2,500 in MoCo (not Bethesda, but not Germantown either).

Both DH and I have advanced degrees and professional careers. No student loans.

Travel: spring break in the Caribbean (sometimes a cruise, sometimes a resort). DE beach trips (stay at a friend's house), lots of long weekends (NYC, philly, Hershey, Williamsburg), big summer trip (alternating road trips and air travel each summer).

We prefer minor league baseball and hockey and college sports (less hassle).

Public schools (good school pyramid; not a W school, but farms are 9 or less).

Kids will likely go to UMCP (we can easily cover tuition and living expenses).

We hate skiing. And my husband would rather cut off his arm than go to the ballet.

Since when is Capital Grille fancy? We like pizza. And crabs. We'll drive to bay a handful of times each summer to eat crabs.

You are definitely poor.

Sigh.

Too bad our $230k income means we are poor.

You people are buts. Truly.

Not poor but middle class, nowhere near upper middle class for sure.

+1 You’re middle class!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on DCUM is obsessed with the amount of money you make rather than the amount of money you have. I can assure you that the PP who summarized the American class system - and as a member of one of the old-money American families, if you work at all or need to work at all then you’re just splitting hairs. Once you have sufficient assets, you may be rich but that is far far from being considered upper class — at that point it becomes a matter of taste, of family, of connections, of membership and even a huge amount of net worth won’t buy you access to it automatically. I laughed at out loud at the suggestion that wealthy people live in gated commiinities. I assure you - outside of Manhattan doorman buildings, no one who was truly wealthy would be caught dead in a gated community outside of DC. Maybe in the Caribbean? But honestly the old-money doesn’t bling. It’s considered bad taste.

+ 1

Wealth and class are not the same thing.

[Anonymous]

So OP, where do we fit?

- 1800 sq ft house in Shaw (worth approx $900k, but mortgage is practically paid off)
- Eat out regularly at wide variety of popular and sometimes trendy DC restaurants but not interested at either of the two places you mention
- The one time I've been to a ball game it was club seats, but generally I'm not interested in baseball and the tickets were a gift. Occasionally go to the Kennedy Center or to theater. More often go to 930 club or Lincoln theater to see live music. No interest in opera or ballet.
- take multiple trips and vacations throughout the year, usually including one trip to Europe (two weeks) or the west coast, a week in Maine, and multiple other trips, to the beach or to cities within 3 hours drive. Used to own an ocean front vacation condo in Florida but sold it (bad investment) - now we rent which makes much more financial sense.
- kids go to local public charter school.

Based on this do you declare me middle class, poor or upper middle class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone on another thread suggested that it takes $10 million a year to be upper class, implying that someone earning $5 million a year is merely upper-middle. This speaks to the skewed perspective of DCUM posters, and I thought it would interesting to inject a dose of reality. The following is how I would describe a few tyoical distinctions of an upper-middle lifestyle (that approximately 15% of the population enjoy) versus the middle-class lifestyle (that about 50% of the population lives).

Upper-middle class:

1) Housing: A 2500+ SF single-family house in the suburbs, or an upscale townhouse or condo (or luxury apartment) in an affluent suburbs or the city proper (think Berhesda, McLean, DC)
2) Vacations: a 2-week luxury cruise to the Baltics, a winter ski trip, or a few trips to the (owned) beach condo or house
3) Entertainment: dinner at the Capital Grille, Kennedy Center opera or ballet, club-level seats at the Nationals
4) Education: Public school in a better-rated district or private

Middle-class:

1) Housing: An older house of less than 2500 sf in the suburbs, a townhouse, or an apartment in the suburbs (think Gaithersburg, Silver Spring, Rockville)
2) Vacations: a 1-week cruise to the Caribbean, a 4-day trip trip to Disneyworld, or a week in a beach rental
3) Entertsinment: Dinner at Outback, the movies, regular,stadium seating at the ballpark
4) Education: Public school

You should read Dream Hoarders, and Unequal Childhoods. They really underscore what's happening here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone on another thread suggested that it takes $10 million a year to be upper class, implying that someone earning $5 million a year is merely upper-middle. This speaks to the skewed perspective of DCUM posters, and I thought it would interesting to inject a dose of reality. The following is how I would describe a few tyoical distinctions of an upper-middle lifestyle (that approximately 15% of the population enjoy) versus the middle-class lifestyle (that about 50% of the population lives).

Upper-middle class:

1) Housing: A 2500+ SF single-family house in the suburbs, or an upscale townhouse or condo (or luxury apartment) in an affluent suburbs or the city proper (think Berhesda, McLean, DC)
2) Vacations: a 2-week luxury cruise to the Baltics, a winter ski trip, or a few trips to the (owned) beach condo or house
3) Entertainment: dinner at the Capital Grille, Kennedy Center opera or ballet, club-level seats at the Nationals
4) Education: Public school in a better-rated district or private

Middle-class:

1) Housing: An older house of less than 2500 sf in the suburbs, a townhouse, or an apartment in the suburbs (think Gaithersburg, Silver Spring, Rockville)
2) Vacations: a 1-week cruise to the Caribbean, a 4-day trip trip to Disneyworld, or a week in a beach rental
3) Entertsinment: Dinner at Outback, the movies, regular,stadium seating at the ballpark
4) Education: Public school

So, what am I, op?

5 bedroom house just shy of 2,500 in MoCo (not Bethesda, but not Germantown either).

Both DH and I have advanced degrees and professional careers. No student loans.

Travel: spring break in the Caribbean (sometimes a cruise, sometimes a resort). DE beach trips (stay at a friend's house), lots of long weekends (NYC, philly, Hershey, Williamsburg), big summer trip (alternating road trips and air travel each summer).

We prefer minor league baseball and hockey and college sports (less hassle).

Public schools (good school pyramid; not a W school, but farms are 9 or less).

Kids will likely go to UMCP (we can easily cover tuition and living expenses).

We hate skiing. And my husband would rather cut off his arm than go to the ballet.

Since when is Capital Grille fancy? We like pizza. And crabs. We'll drive to bay a handful of times each summer to eat crabs.

You are definitely poor.

Sigh.

Too bad our $230k income means we are poor.

You people are buts. Truly.

Not poor but middle class, nowhere near upper middle class for sure.

Check out this calculator guys, it’s a bit more objective than your personal opinion:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/05/11/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

Some examples for DC metro by putting in some random numbers for a 4 person household:

50k - lower
100k - middle
150k - middle
200k - upper middle
300k - upper

It sure makes you mad that someone would consider you middle class rather than upper middle. But as a pp stated being upper class is nothing to do with how much you make. You are solidly middle class.

Not the PP you seem to think I am but yes our HHI is in the middle class range thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So OP, where do we fit?

- 1800 sq ft house in Shaw (worth approx $900k, but mortgage is practically paid off)
- Eat out regularly at wide variety of popular and sometimes trendy DC restaurants but not interested at either of the two places you mention
- The one time I've been to a ball game it was club seats, but generally I'm not interested in baseball and the tickets were a gift. Occasionally go to the Kennedy Center or to theater. More often go to 930 club or Lincoln theater to see live music. No interest in opera or ballet.
- take multiple trips and vacations throughout the year, usually including one trip to Europe (two weeks) or the west coast, a week in Maine, and multiple other trips, to the beach or to cities within 3 hours drive. Used to own an ocean front vacation condo in Florida but sold it (bad investment) - now we rent which makes much more financial sense.
- kids go to local public charter school.

Based on this do you declare me middle class, poor or upper middle class?

Selfish upper-class who are too cheap to send their kids to private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So OP, where do we fit?

- 1800 sq ft house in Shaw (worth approx $900k, but mortgage is practically paid off)
- Eat out regularly at wide variety of popular and sometimes trendy DC restaurants but not interested at either of the two places you mention
- The one time I've been to a ball game it was club seats, but generally I'm not interested in baseball and the tickets were a gift. Occasionally go to the Kennedy Center or to theater. More often go to 930 club or Lincoln theater to see live music. No interest in opera or ballet.
- take multiple trips and vacations throughout the year, usually including one trip to Europe (two weeks) or the west coast, a week in Maine, and multiple other trips, to the beach or to cities within 3 hours drive. Used to own an ocean front vacation condo in Florida but sold it (bad investment) - now we rent which makes much more financial sense.
- kids go to local public charter school.

Based on this do you declare me middle class, poor or upper middle class?

Selfish upper-class who are too cheap to send their kids to private.

Anyone else want to weigh in? PP here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So OP, where do we fit?

- 1800 sq ft house in Shaw (worth approx $900k, but mortgage is practically paid off)
- Eat out regularly at wide variety of popular and sometimes trendy DC restaurants but not interested at either of the two places you mention
- The one time I've been to a ball game it was club seats, but generally I'm not interested in baseball and the tickets were a gift. Occasionally go to the Kennedy Center or to theater. More often go to 930 club or Lincoln theater to see live music. No interest in opera or ballet.
- take multiple trips and vacations throughout the year, usually including one trip to Europe (two weeks) or the west coast, a week in Maine, and multiple other trips, to the beach or to cities within 3 hours drive. Used to own an ocean front vacation condo in Florida but sold it (bad investment) - now we rent which makes much more financial sense.
- kids go to local public charter school.

Based on this do you declare me middle class, poor or upper middle class?

Selfish upper-class who are too cheap to send their kids to private.

Ok, PP, I'll respond. I don't believe in private school so wont be sending my kids to one even if we could afford it, but what you really need to know is that if you looked at our HHI you and most of the other snide privileged posters here would define us as "poors". Until recently our HHI was under $100k. It's now jumped to about $130k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So OP, where do we fit?

- 1800 sq ft house in Shaw (worth approx $900k, but mortgage is practically paid off)
- Eat out regularly at wide variety of popular and sometimes trendy DC restaurants but not interested at either of the two places you mention
- The one time I've been to a ball game it was club seats, but generally I'm not interested in baseball and the tickets were a gift. Occasionally go to the Kennedy Center or to theater. More often go to 930 club or Lincoln theater to see live music. No interest in opera or ballet.
- take multiple trips and vacations throughout the year, usually including one trip to Europe (two weeks) or the west coast, a week in Maine, and multiple other trips, to the beach or to cities within 3 hours drive. Used to own an ocean front vacation condo in Florida but sold it (bad investment) - now we rent which makes much more financial sense.
- kids go to local public charter school.

Based on this do you declare me middle class, poor or upper middle class?

Definitely upper middle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So OP, where do we fit?

- 1800 sq ft house in Shaw (worth approx $900k, but mortgage is practically paid off)
- Eat out regularly at wide variety of popular and sometimes trendy DC restaurants but not interested at either of the two places you mention
- The one time I've been to a ball game it was club seats, but generally I'm not interested in baseball and the tickets were a gift. Occasionally go to the Kennedy Center or to theater. More often go to 930 club or Lincoln theater to see live music. No interest in opera or ballet.
- take multiple trips and vacations throughout the year, usually including one trip to Europe (two weeks) or the west coast, a week in Maine, and multiple other trips, to the beach or to cities within 3 hours drive. Used to own an ocean front vacation condo in Florida but sold it (bad investment) - now we rent which makes much more financial sense.
- kids go to local public charter school.

Based on this do you declare me middle class, poor or upper middle class?

Definitely upper middle.

Even though our HHI is in the DCUM category of "poors"? Just checking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Middle class, never had a passport, never left the country.
Rich, takes vacations overseas.

It's not travel that distinguishes you as MC, UMC or UC, it's the way you do it. When the wealthy travel they stay in their bubble the whole time. I travelled extensively in college and did as many study abroad programs as possible. I've also backpacked across several continents and lived overseas. My parents were solidly middle class yet I prioritized travel, worked for my money, and spent frugally. I travelled to some destitute places. I saw true poverty, starvation, physical suffering, and other things we are typically insulated from here in our MC/UMC/UC American comfort zone. I've also done more vacation type overseas travel, but the older I get the more disenchanted I am with it, and I tend to spend more vacation time meeting up with family and friends than focusing on a specific location.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Middle class, never had a passport, never left the country.
Rich, takes vacations overseas.

It's not travel that distinguishes you as MC, UMC or UC, it's the way you do it. When the wealthy travel they stay in their bubble the whole time. I travelled extensively in college and did as many study abroad programs as possible. I've also backpacked across several continents and lived overseas. My parents were solidly middle class yet I prioritized travel, worked for my money, and spent frugally. I travelled to some destitute places. I saw true poverty, starvation, physical suffering, and other things we are typically insulated from here in our MC/UMC/UC American comfort zone. I've also done more vacation type overseas travel, but the older I get the more disenchanted I am with it, and I tend to spend more vacation time meeting up with family and friends than focusing on a specific location.

Your backpacking description as a student couldn't be more upper middle class than if you tried!

[Anonymous]

The description PP wrote (quoted?) on middle class describes me to a T.

Super insecure my “middle class” is showing. We have a family of 6 on one income 165k. I think it puts us in lower middle class actually (income isn’t just about what you make but how many people you support)

I have no idea why it matters to me. I just realized how much easier my friends with family businesses and money have it. We have no safety net, there is definitely anxiety to keep up with our current lifestyle, and the future.

[Anonymous]

This list makes little sense - it's very black and white. We live in a small older house in SS, send kids to public and take an annual beach vacation but I have a hard time saying we are middle class. Our HHI based on salary is 320K + bonuses ranging from 30-70K depending on the year.

We have no debt other than mortgage and a small car payment, and have over a decade of equity in our home, a really healthy retirement and college funds. Kids are in school and I have a very flex schedule so very little childcare costs during the school year. We could easily move into a million dollar home and thus hit a lot of the UMC things on your list, but we love our house (and have steadily done improvements since we moved in, so it's actually really nice), we love our neighborhood, live on a quiet street, have a great community and good walkability, and kids are thriving in school.

There are plenty of people living in crappy homes in nicer places. And there are plenty of people in crazy debt living beyond their means that are taking the vacations you describe and can't afford them. Retirement is a mess in this country.