Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Upper-middle class:

1) Housing: 6000 SF Home in a gated community.
2) Vacations: Ski, Hawaii, Europe etc. 2 one week trips a year and 4 long weekends per year.
3) Entertainment: Kids sporting events, occasional professional sports events, play a lot of golf, hang out socially with other families, camp hike etc.
4) Education: Public in the best SD in the state.

-3 kids and single mom

You have all of this in one income, 3 kids, and no help?

Wow. You go.

[Anonymous]

"And we pay half our income to the state and federal government don't forget."

OP, you need to find a decent accountant.

[Anonymous]

Some of the OP’s distinctions are cultural, not financial. We just spent a week in Europe for $6k including airfare, which some families spend on a week at Disney including airfare. Some people just have better taste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crazy

All subjective

Why do you care?

Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.

We're middle class in the sense that we don't have any family money or inherited wealth. So while we make a decent income (750k) and have some nice things that you mentioned (like the house in a "nice" suburb and the annual trips to Europe and the Caribbean and so on), we don't have the "things" that other private school parents have. Namely boats, second (or third) homes, exclusive country club memberships, etc.

Our kids aren't going to get a 60k car when they turn 16.

We'll pay for college but we're not going to be able to give them 2k a month in spending money. Things like that.

Compared to them, we are middle class.

$750k is NOT middle class. You're qualifiers - hey, our kids won't get $60k cars, no inheritance, and we don't have a boat - doesn't mean you are middle class. You are in the too fraction of 1%, with private schools and annual trips to Europe.looking to multimillionaires with third homes and co aren't yourself to them still doesn't make you middle class.

Right. Comparing upwards is not how it works. You are better off than at least 95% of Americans so there is no way that you are "middle class."

95%? Try 99%!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"And we pay half our income to the state and federal government don't forget."

OP, you need to find a decent accountant.

I'm the OP, and that wasn't me. We have a lot of posters here, and I've been out for hours.

[Anonymous]

If the $750K HHI poster isn't creating intergenerational wealth for their kids, they they're doing something wrong. Just because you don't have a trust fund doesn't mean you're not Upper Class with that type of income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"And we pay half our income to the state and federal government don't forget."

OP, you need to find a decent accountant.

Not sure what an accountant can possible do. Wage income is reported to the IRS. The alternative minimum tax was beautifully designed and it limits deductions. If your deductions are limited and your income is mostly wage income, there isn’t anything an accountant can do.

[Anonymous]

My view:

Wealthy/Rich - Doesn’t ever have to work again.

Upper Class - lives 100% debt free, can afford pretty much anything/doesn’t sweat any details/costs, but can’t afford to stop working.

UMC - needs to work to maintain current lifestyle, still needs leverage for big purchses (house, car), still has to be mindful of a budget.

[Anonymous]

So, I thought this was fairly interesting!

I was surprised to find that with our 4 children (6 person household), our HHI of $250K puts us in the 70th percentile for the US, still in the global middle class.

If we had two children, we'd be in the 90th percentile for the US.

So, I guess DCUM middle class really is middle class!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, I thought this was fairly interesting!

I was surprised to find that with our 4 children (6 person household), our HHI of $250K puts us in the 70th percentile for the US, still in the global middle class.

If we had two children, we'd be in the 90th percentile for the US.

So, I guess DCUM middle class really is middle class!

^^ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/global-income-calculator/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.23a6e9e0de21

The above referred to this graphic in the Post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In societies that are more class-bound, there is little anxiety about social status because you are stuck wherever you were born. No matter how you act, you are always defined by where in the pecking order by your grandparents and great-grandparents. There is no need to talk about it because it is a given. There's no moral failure to being a part of a lower class, just bad luck.

In contrast, the American narrative/story/myth of being class-less results in many people being unsure of their place on the ladder. Not too long ago (and maybe still) every white American -- no matter how ill-mannered, uneducated, or poor -- could always claim their whiteness to feel they were better than every person of color. Coupled with the meritocratic ideal, not being better positioned has become a sign of failure to be smart enough or good enough to make it. Some people comfort themselves by making sure the folks they think are below them stay there or want to turn the clock back to when their attributes might have been better valued. More obsess over which watch or car or other consumer good to buy to signal their rightful position or their aspiration.

An old fashioned Marxist would just ask your relationship to the means of production. Do you own the factory? Do you have to sell your labor?

I like you PP. Are you an economist?

[Anonymous]

Ugh, now I am really craving CHEESE FRIES from Outback

[Anonymous]

Lol this again...

We have way more than we need on $280k but I don't care what anyone else calls us or calls themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have done half the stuff in you describe in UMC list and half the things you describe in MC list. I'm poor.

If you've done half the stuff in the upper-middle class list, you're not poor. That's my point.

He is if he pays for stuff like that with plastic and is in debt up to his eyeballs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"And we pay half our income to the state and federal government don't forget."

OP, you need to find a decent accountant.

Not sure what an accountant can possible do. Wage income is reported to the IRS. The alternative minimum tax was beautifully designed and it limits deductions. If your deductions are limited and your income is mostly wage income, there isn’t anything an accountant can do.

The average effective tax rate in PP's income bracket is 25%. If she's truly paying 50% between state and federal taxes, she does need an accountant. That's not about the AMT; it's about poor financial planning or failure to take all of the available deductions.

(But really, it's probably just inaccurate. If PP earns $750K in wages, I'm willing to bet her HHI is higher because she very likely has additional income in the form of interest, dividends, capital gains, etc. unless she is truly just spending every dime of that and not saving or investing any of it. So she might be paying 50% of $750K in taxes--but on far more than $750K in overall income.)