How many kids really decline acceptances to Top 10-15 uni's for State U?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Is Harvard worth $300,000 in loans? Some would say absolutely not, others would think attending the most prestigious college on the planet is worth the price. It's really hard to say.

If you are accepted to Harvard but require $300,000 in loans to attend since your parents make too much to qualify for any financial aid from the world's second most generous school, your family planned poorly and a $300K loan is not a huge burden.

The problem is not with top schools and needing $300K.

The problem is needing $140K for your state flagship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Vanderbilt top 15? I turned it down for UNC. We just didn't have the money.

Vanderbilt and UNC aren't that far off. I think most would turn down Vanderbilt for UNC. The dilemma comes from turning down a top 15 for a school that's outside the top 40.

Lol, you must be new to DCUM. UNC is #30 on USNWR rankings and UVA is #25. Yet, DCUM always debates the wisdom of going to UVA versus an Ivy.

Yes, I know that, but assuming Vanderbilt is #15 (just a guess) and UNC is #30, it's safe to say that many families would turn down paying $50,000+ a year for in-state UNC tuition. The big dillema comes when you live in a state where the flagship is ranked #75. A family might not be able to pay for Vanderbilt without mortgaging their future, but when the alternative is a school that is ranked 60 points lower, it's not hard to see why someone might be willing to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Is Harvard worth $300,000 in loans? Some would say absolutely not, others would think attending the most prestigious college on the planet is worth the price. It's really hard to say.

If you are accepted to Harvard but require $300,000 in loans to attend since your parents make too much to qualify for any financial aid from the world's second most generous school, your family planned poorly and a $300K loan is not a huge burden.

The problem is not with top schools and needing $300K.

The problem is needing $140K for your state flagship.

Ok, I'm the poster with the friend whose daughter did not qualify for any aid from Columbia despite her family having three kids and a max HHI of $250,000. Columbia costs roughly the same as Harvard. Tell me how was this family supposed to save enough to get anywhere close to being able to pay for a school that costs $280,000+ ? Yet, Columbia thinks a family with this income should be able to afford $70,000 a year? What these schools expect families to be able to pay is completely unrealistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Financially responsible families who fall in the doughnut-hole will do this. Better off going to the Honors College of a strong state U and saving the money for grad school.

Also depends so much on what your child wants to do. My best friend's son went to an Ivy and she really struggled with the decision to spend so much but his goal is to work on Wall St. so the Ivy offered a clear benefit and for that field probably is worth the investmnet. In contrast, my sister turned down U of Penn for a state U -- she wanted to be a nurse and Pen offered no aid. Hospitals don't care where you went to college as long as it's an accredited program so it would have been stupid to go into debt for a nursing degree.

There is no “donut hole” if one is financially responsible. That is kind of the point.

So speaks the poster who has no clue what the real world is like.

Pray, tell, what are the donut hole families supposed to do? Sacrifice all their retirement savings just for a fancy college? Or take on a second mortgage? There's a thing called life and it's damn expensive and that's not even figuring in college. Being financially responsible is making sure you have enough retirement savings and paying down your mortgage and providing your family with a safe and decent place to live and ensuring there's food on the table. A fancy college is strictly a privilege, not a right. And guess what, a fancy college does virtually nothing in terms of advancement compared to a good state school for a highly capable student.

I agree that an honors program in a good state school is a great option, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with my statement.

The top 10-15 schools have their own way of figuring financial need. They are more liberal than the FAFSA calculations. There is no donut hole in financially responsible families because they have saved enough without sacrificing their retirement (and they get dinged more than the financially irresponsible because they have saved more). We live in the DC area- well within the beltway. Our HHI has been in the $150-$200k range for the past 10 years,before that it was closer to $100k. ($150-$200k is often referred to as the “donut hole”) We were able to save enough for our two children’s colleges (wherever they would have gone) and for our retirement. We are paying down a mortgage on a house in a safe decent place and ensured that there is/was food on the table. Our children are currently in college now and their costs are around $45k each per year; however, we had budgeted to allow each to go to a more expensive school. While we would have liked for them to go to one of our state’s in state schools for the financial $, they each chose a school that was better for each of them all around.

In the end, it is a choice on the parents to spend their money as they wish when they wish. Own that - don’t blame “the donut hole” for your choices.

I keep thinking about this post and wondering how the poster managed to save enough to send two kids to schools costing $45K each AND able to afford a more expensive (by which I take it they mean a $70k a year school). The only thing I can think of is that perhaps they bought their home in the before any house in a "safe decent place" in the DC area cost over $500K. For most people housing is the biggest part of the budget. If you have a late starting career because of graduate school or have to pay $24K a year in child care costs it is difficult to save enough for a 20% downpayment. There are many families in the DC area who are spending a lot on housing perhaps this poster isn't one of them. Different families can be equally responsible but have different abilities to pay even with the same HHI because of when they bought their home.
I will say it is impressive that they are able to afford $280k times two ($560K for both children) despite earning $150K for just ten years while having a decent house and saving adequately for retirement. I hope you will share your secret with us. If you don't live in the DC area this post makes more sense!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Is Harvard worth $300,000 in loans? Some would say absolutely not, others would think attending the most prestigious college on the planet is worth the price. It's really hard to say.

If you are accepted to Harvard but require $300,000 in loans to attend since your parents make too much to qualify for any financial aid from the world's second most generous school, your family planned poorly and a $300K loan is not a huge burden.

The problem is not with top schools and needing $300K.

The problem is needing $140K for your state flagship.

A $300K loan is a huge burden for anyone, much less a 22yo just starting out in life.

If you are accepted to Harvard but would still require say, $80-100,000 in loans to attend because your parents planned very well but cannot pay $70K/year/kid and rising despite having saved diligently, that is still a huge burden (and an unacceptable one from my POV) for a 22yo to take on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Is Harvard worth $300,000 in loans? Some would say absolutely not, others would think attending the most prestigious college on the planet is worth the price. It's really hard to say.

If you are accepted to Harvard but require $300,000 in loans to attend since your parents make too much to qualify for any financial aid from the world's second most generous school, your family planned poorly and a $300K loan is not a huge burden.

The problem is not with top schools and needing $300K.

The problem is needing $140K for your state flagship.

What state flagship is $140K for instate students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What state flagship is $140K for instate students?

Rutgers In-state: $32,191 x 4 = $128,764. With increases, extra costs, and the possibility of more than 4 years... it could easily exceed $140.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I'm the poster with the friend whose daughter did not qualify for any aid from Columbia despite her family having three kids and a max HHI of $250,000. Columbia costs roughly the same as Harvard. Tell me how was this family supposed to save enough to get anywhere close to being able to pay for a school that costs $280,000+ ? Yet, Columbia thinks a family with this income should be able to afford $70,000 a year? What these schools expect families to be able to pay is completely unrealistic.

The $250K family can't save $1000 a month?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I'm the poster with the friend whose daughter did not qualify for any aid from Columbia despite her family having three kids and a max HHI of $250,000. Columbia costs roughly the same as Harvard. Tell me how was this family supposed to save enough to get anywhere close to being able to pay for a school that costs $280,000+ ? Yet, Columbia thinks a family with this income should be able to afford $70,000 a year? What these schools expect families to be able to pay is completely unrealistic.

The $250K family can't save $1000 a month?

Presumably, their HHI was not $250K 15 years ago, and it is also reasonable to assume that their childcare expenses were at least a few thousand a month for 5-10 years, depending on how many kids they had and what the spacing was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I'm the poster with the friend whose daughter did not qualify for any aid from Columbia despite her family having three kids and a max HHI of $250,000. Columbia costs roughly the same as Harvard. Tell me how was this family supposed to save enough to get anywhere close to being able to pay for a school that costs $280,000+ ? Yet, Columbia thinks a family with this income should be able to afford $70,000 a year? What these schools expect families to be able to pay is completely unrealistic.

The $250K family can't save $1000 a month?

Presumably, their HHI was not $250K 15 years ago, and it is also reasonable to assume that their childcare expenses were at least a few thousand a month for 5-10 years, depending on how many kids they had and what the spacing was.

But their income did increase -- are you suggesting colleges base aid on 20 years audited financials?

What happened when they appealed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I'm the poster with the friend whose daughter did not qualify for any aid from Columbia despite her family having three kids and a max HHI of $250,000. Columbia costs roughly the same as Harvard. Tell me how was this family supposed to save enough to get anywhere close to being able to pay for a school that costs $280,000+ ? Yet, Columbia thinks a family with this income should be able to afford $70,000 a year? What these schools expect families to be able to pay is completely unrealistic.

The $250K family can't save $1000 a month?

Presumably, their HHI was not $250K 15 years ago, and it is also reasonable to assume that their childcare expenses were at least a few thousand a month for 5-10 years, depending on how many kids they had and what the spacing was.

Not to mention that I bet a lot of parents these days might have finished paying off their student loans not that long ago. So instead of saving for their children's future college, they were still paying off their own college. And that's where these costs really start to hurt and become a vicious cycle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I'm the poster with the friend whose daughter did not qualify for any aid from Columbia despite her family having three kids and a max HHI of $250,000. Columbia costs roughly the same as Harvard. Tell me how was this family supposed to save enough to get anywhere close to being able to pay for a school that costs $280,000+ ? Yet, Columbia thinks a family with this income should be able to afford $70,000 a year? What these schools expect families to be able to pay is completely unrealistic.

The $250K family can't save $1000 a month?

Presumably, their HHI was not $250K 15 years ago, and it is also reasonable to assume that their childcare expenses were at least a few thousand a month for 5-10 years, depending on how many kids they had and what the spacing was.

But their income did increase -- are you suggesting colleges base aid on 20 years audited financials?

What happened when they appealed?

I am not the PP with the friends; I am a different PP.

I'm not suggesting anything. What I am saying is that for a family with e.g. a HHI of say, $250K/year in 2018, it would have been difficult to save the $560,000+ needed to send their two kids to the elite schools of their choice over the course of the previous 18-22 years of parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am not the PP with the friends; I am a different PP.

I'm not suggesting anything. What I am saying is that for a family with e.g. a HHI of say, $250K/year in 2018, it would have been difficult to save the $560,000+ needed to send their two kids to the elite schools of their choice over the course of the previous 18-22 years of parenting.

Difficult, yes.

And yet people do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am not the PP with the friends; I am a different PP.

I'm not suggesting anything. What I am saying is that for a family with e.g. a HHI of say, $250K/year in 2018, it would have been difficult to save the $560,000+ needed to send their two kids to the elite schools of their choice over the course of the previous 18-22 years of parenting.

Difficult, yes.

And yet people do it.

For many, many (likely the majority of) people in these income brackets, it is not difficult; it is impossible.

This is why it is much harder to get into e.g. UMD now than it was 10 years ago. Kids who otherwise might have gone to elite schools are going to a school their parents can afford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I'm the poster with the friend whose daughter did not qualify for any aid from Columbia despite her family having three kids and a max HHI of $250,000. Columbia costs roughly the same as Harvard. Tell me how was this family supposed to save enough to get anywhere close to being able to pay for a school that costs $280,000+ ? Yet, Columbia thinks a family with this income should be able to afford $70,000 a year? What these schools expect families to be able to pay is completely unrealistic.

The $250K family can't save $1000 a month?

Presumably, their HHI was not $250K 15 years ago, and it is also reasonable to assume that their childcare expenses were at least a few thousand a month for 5-10 years, depending on how many kids they had and what the spacing was.

Not to mention that I bet a lot of parents these days might have finished paying off their student loans not that long ago. So instead of saving for their children's future college, they were still paying off their own college. And that's where these costs really start to hurt and become a vicious cycle.

Yep - own college loans, then childcare costs, then college savings. And, most people would like to also buy a home at some point in there so need to save up that downpayment. Not many can do all of these at once and build up a half-million in college savings. I, and most of the friends I've discussed this with, did not save for college beyond some piddly amounts during the 0-5 years. Those were all about childcare for 2 kids. When they went to school then what we were paying for childcare shifted into college savings.

We'll have enough between savings and current cash flow for an in-state public U and the kids can apply elsewhere if merit aid will bring the cost down. They'll be fine and I'm 100% comfortable that they will not be harmed by not going to an top 10 college. And, anyway, DS wouldn't be competitive for that level of college. DD could be but is firmly focused on a particular field where one of the top US programs is at an in-state public.