How many kids really decline acceptances to Top 10-15 uni's for State U?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Financially responsible families who fall in the doughnut-hole will do this. Better off going to the Honors College of a strong state U and saving the money for grad school.

Also depends so much on what your child wants to do. My best friend's son went to an Ivy and she really struggled with the decision to spend so much but his goal is to work on Wall St. so the Ivy offered a clear benefit and for that field probably is worth the investmnet. In contrast, my sister turned down U of Penn for a state U -- she wanted to be a nurse and Pen offered no aid. Hospitals don't care where you went to college as long as it's an accredited program so it would have been stupid to go into debt for a nursing degree.

There is no “donut hole” if one is financially responsible. That is kind of the point.

So speaks the poster who has no clue what the real world is like.

Pray, tell, what are the donut hole families supposed to do? Sacrifice all their retirement savings just for a fancy college? Or take on a second mortgage? There's a thing called life and it's damn expensive and that's not even figuring in college. Being financially responsible is making sure you have enough retirement savings and paying down your mortgage and providing your family with a safe and decent place to live and ensuring there's food on the table. A fancy college is strictly a privilege, not a right. And guess what, a fancy college does virtually nothing in terms of advancement compared to a good state school for a highly capable student.

I agree that an honors program in a good state school is a great option, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with my statement.

The top 10-15 schools have their own way of figuring financial need. They are more liberal than the FAFSA calculations. There is no donut hole in financially responsible families because they have saved enough without sacrificing their retirement (and they get dinged more than the financially irresponsible because they have saved more). We live in the DC area- well within the beltway. Our HHI has been in the $150-$200k range for the past 10 years,before that it was closer to $100k. ($150-$200k is often referred to as the “donut hole”) We were able to save enough for our two children’s colleges (wherever they would have gone) and for our retirement. We are paying down a mortgage on a house in a safe decent place and ensured that there is/was food on the table. Our children are currently in college now and their costs are around $45k each per year; however, we had budgeted to allow each to go to a more expensive school. While we would have liked for them to go to one of our state’s in state schools for the financial $, they each chose a school that was better for each of them all around.

In the end, it is a choice on the parents to spend their money as they wish when they wish. Own that - don’t blame “the donut hole” for your choices.

[Anonymous]

Something to consider is, since both you and your DH are alumni of this Ivy you consider to be so worthy of status, does it bother you at all that, between the two of you, the prestige of your degrees has apparently not put you in a position where the tuition of that same college is irrelevant to your overall financial picture?

More bluntly, if it's so prestigious, then why hasn't it done more for you and your DH? Why are you merely UMC like just about everyone else here?

[Anonymous]

All this thread has focused on is college as a job factory. IME, that is and should have been the role of graduate school. I went public and did fine in terms of career but it was too big, I got lost and did not do what I needed to receive an education. It was not until later in life that I paused long enough to notice that and have regrets. Sure there are people who go public for financial reasons, are suited to navigate a large environment and go on to thrive. Others don't because it doesn't fit. Private colleges are exorbitantly expensive. They also have benefits due to size, faculty and peer group to inform choices. Their reputations also smooth entry into careers and the best graduate schools. We are comparing Fords to BMW's...both can get you where you want to go but with different feels to the experience.

[Anonymous]

"There is no “donut hole” if one is financially responsible. That is kind of the point."

Actually, THERE IS. For a certain group of families, after you practice the level of "financial responsibility" you are talking about for 20 or so years, and you see your parents zip through their savings in about half the time they expected or you see your neighbor lose their $300k per year job the year before their first of three DC head off to college, all of a sudden, while you know you have the money, spending it is not easy.

Lots of people become more conservative as they get older. I'm not talking about socially conservative or even politically conservative, I'm talking "I've seen too many bad things happen to too many good people, less risk taking, conservative."

I think the more financially responsible you have been, the more likely you are to end up in this version of the "donut hole".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something to consider is, since both you and your DH are alumni of this Ivy you consider to be so worthy of status, does it bother you at all that, between the two of you, the prestige of your degrees has apparently not put you in a position where the tuition of that same college is irrelevant to your overall financial picture?

More bluntly, if it's so prestigious, then why hasn't it done more for you and your DH? Why are you merely UMC like just about everyone else here?

If you look at the second post I believe that's OP who said they could afford it, but does one do everything one can afford?

[Anonymous]

I don’t know how many kids do this but I definitely know kids/families who made that choice. DC goes to Michigan and there are plenty of instate kids who chose Michigan over top private options, including ivies. One of DCs friends from this area chose it over an ivy because he got significant aid (and wanted to go there). Kids from both my DCs high schools chose UVA or UMD over more expensive higher ranked options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All this thread has focused on is college as a job factory. IME, that is and should have been the role of graduate school. I went public and did fine in terms of career but it was too big, I got lost and did not do what I needed to receive an education. It was not until later in life that I paused long enough to notice that and have regrets. Sure there are people who go public for financial reasons, are suited to navigate a large environment and go on to thrive. Others don't because it doesn't fit. Private colleges are exorbitantly expensive. They also have benefits due to size, faculty and peer group to inform choices. Their reputations also smooth entry into careers and the best graduate schools. We are comparing Fords to BMW's...both can get you where you want to go but with different feels to the experience.

I feel like at this point it's more like comparing a Ford that someone gives you free with a Maserati.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've always thought Big State U would be preferable for DC financial reasons. I mean, really, $70,000 a year? For 4 years? For what exactly? But I went to a Top 10-15 school (yeah it was like $20K then) and I'm having a hard time sticking to my frugal principles now that high school is approaching for DC. And a lot of it, I'm being honest here, has to do with status and how I'll feel saying DC is going to an Ivy or whatever. And how DC will feel. It's a normal human reaction, everyone considers status to some degree throughout their day so don't judge people!!! But does this happen often that kids turn down the $70K school for the $30K school? Can I ignore the siren song of the Ivy League? And yes, obviously DC may not get in but let's just say for argument's sake DC is admitted. And because DH and I are alumni, evidently DC will have to apply early to get the alumni bump so we can't just apply to both Top 10 and BSU and see what happens.

Sure. Did that this year. Just because you can afford something doesn't mean it is worth it. (And for some of us, this kind of thinking is why we can afford things.) What is the cost/benefit ratio? It all depends on the program and student's long term goals. A school being ranked 10 places higher by US news doesn't mean it provides $200k more value. DC#1 is going to state school - we just laughed at the last acceptance that tried to woo with $20k "merit", but only for freshman year. Really, you didn't think we would notice the second letter saying $72k, $74k, $76k for the other three years? We'd rather save the money for grad school. DC#2 is starting to make lists, and now that we are wiser, we won't even bother having them apply to certain types of schools that will be equivalent to the state school. There are a handful of elite schools that offer something very specific DC#2 is interested in, which we will happily pay for if they get in. Otherwise, #1 Elite with a poor fit/program doesn't beat out Strong State with a good fit/program.

[Anonymous]

My DC turned down an Ivy for a full scholarship at a state school.

[Anonymous]

DC did - a full ride at UMD was too sweet to turn down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I agree that an honors program in a good state school is a great option, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with my statement.

The top 10-15 schools have their own way of figuring financial need. They are more liberal than the FAFSA calculations. There is no donut hole in financially responsible families because they have saved enough without sacrificing their retirement (and they get dinged more than the financially irresponsible because they have saved more). We live in the DC area- well within the beltway. Our HHI has been in the $150-$200k range for the past 10 years,before that it was closer to $100k. ($150-$200k is often referred to as the “donut hole”) We were able to save enough for our two children’s colleges (wherever they would have gone) and for our retirement. We are paying down a mortgage on a house in a safe decent place and ensured that there is/was food on the table. Our children are currently in college now and their costs are around $45k each per year; however, we had budgeted to allow each to go to a more expensive school. While we would have liked for them to go to one of our state’s in state schools for the financial $, they each chose a school that was better for each of them all around.

In the end, it is a choice on the parents to spend their money as they wish when they wish. Own that - don’t blame “the donut hole” for your choices.

I understand what you are saying, but I think you are being too rash. Increase your 2 kids to 3 or 4 (I know, you will say "don't have so many kids", but would I rather kid 3 not exist so that kid 1 and 2 can go to more prestigious schools?). How about grad school? I am just above the level where I would get any FA at even the most generous schools. I have saved very diligently, and can (barely) afford any college in the country for all of them. But, that doesn't leave much to support them for graduate school. If they know they want additional education, it only makes sense for them to spend less on their BS to have money left for grad school. So, state flagship over private makes sense. If my income were lower and private school cost the same as public, then the decision-making might be different. To claim "there is no donut hole" implies that the decision making should be the same for everyone. It is not. The financial incentives are vastly different depending on where you fall in the income/financial aid spectrum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"There is no “donut hole” if one is financially responsible. That is kind of the point."

Actually, THERE IS. For a certain group of families, after you practice the level of "financial responsibility" you are talking about for 20 or so years, and you see your parents zip through their savings in about half the time they expected or you see your neighbor lose their $300k per year job the year before their first of three DC head off to college, all of a sudden, while you know you have the money, spending it is not easy.

Lots of people become more conservative as they get older. I'm not talking about socially conservative or even politically conservative, I'm talking "I've seen too many bad things happen to too many good people, less risk taking, conservative."

I think the more financially responsible you have been, the more likely you are to end up in this version of the "donut hole".

I've heard of parents using large HELOCs, 401K loans to pay for 70K+/year schools for their kids. They are coming up with the money to pay for the schools and they are doing everything that they can to keep their kid's own student loan debt at a minimum....

It's this or choose to go to an in state school which is still not all that cheap and might even still be a stretch for some of these families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I agree that an honors program in a good state school is a great option, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with my statement.

The top 10-15 schools have their own way of figuring financial need. They are more liberal than the FAFSA calculations. There is no donut hole in financially responsible families because they have saved enough without sacrificing their retirement (and they get dinged more than the financially irresponsible because they have saved more). We live in the DC area- well within the beltway. Our HHI has been in the $150-$200k range for the past 10 years,before that it was closer to $100k. ($150-$200k is often referred to as the “donut hole”) We were able to save enough for our two children’s colleges (wherever they would have gone) and for our retirement. We are paying down a mortgage on a house in a safe decent place and ensured that there is/was food on the table. Our children are currently in college now and their costs are around $45k each per year; however, we had budgeted to allow each to go to a more expensive school. While we would have liked for them to go to one of our state’s in state schools for the financial $, they each chose a school that was better for each of them all around.

In the end, it is a choice on the parents to spend their money as they wish when they wish. Own that - don’t blame “the donut hole” for your choices.

I understand what you are saying, but I think you are being too rash. Increase your 2 kids to 3 or 4 (I know, you will say "don't have so many kids", but would I rather kid 3 not exist so that kid 1 and 2 can go to more prestigious schools?). How about grad school? I am just above the level where I would get any FA at even the most generous schools. I have saved very diligently, and can (barely) afford any college in the country for all of them. But, that doesn't leave much to support them for graduate school. If they know they want additional education, it only makes sense for them to spend less on their BS to have money left for grad school. So, state flagship over private makes sense. If my income were lower and private school cost the same as public, then the decision-making might be different. To claim "there is no donut hole" implies that the decision making should be the same for everyone. It is not. The financial incentives are vastly different depending on where you fall in the income/financial aid spectrum.

eh, if the donut hole people send talented kids to the state schools (including community colleges), the state schools will only get better, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"There is no “donut hole” if one is financially responsible. That is kind of the point."

Actually, THERE IS. For a certain group of families, after you practice the level of "financial responsibility" you are talking about for 20 or so years, and you see your parents zip through their savings in about half the time they expected or you see your neighbor lose their $300k per year job the year before their first of three DC head off to college, all of a sudden, while you know you have the money, spending it is not easy.

Lots of people become more conservative as they get older. I'm not talking about socially conservative or even politically conservative, I'm talking "I've seen too many bad things happen to too many good people, less risk taking, conservative."

I think the more financially responsible you have been, the more likely you are to end up in this version of the "donut hole".

I've heard of parents using large HELOCs, 401K loans to pay for 70K+/year schools for their kids. They are coming up with the money to pay for the schools and they are doing everything that they can to keep their kid's own student loan debt at a minimum....

It's this or choose to go to an in state school which is still not all that cheap and might even still be a stretch for some of these families.

This may be fine if the parents are in their 40s and have time to recover before their own retirement but with people having kids later in life, many parents are close to retirement by the time their kids finish college. Taking a 401k loan in that situation is stupid. I turned down any Ivy to go to a top state school, which my parents fully paid for (times 3 kids). I'd have hated to have my parents sacrifice their own retirement to pay for an expensive school. I loved my college years and have had a great life with my state U diploma. My kids know we can pay for in-state public tuition so they can go public or find another school that provides merit aid to bring the cost down to match that (or lower -- anything they don't spend on undergrad is $ they'll have for grad school). I'm sure they will do fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"There is no “donut hole” if one is financially responsible. That is kind of the point."

Actually, THERE IS. For a certain group of families, after you practice the level of "financial responsibility" you are talking about for 20 or so years, and you see your parents zip through their savings in about half the time they expected or you see your neighbor lose their $300k per year job the year before their first of three DC head off to college, all of a sudden, while you know you have the money, spending it is not easy.

Lots of people become more conservative as they get older. I'm not talking about socially conservative or even politically conservative, I'm talking "I've seen too many bad things happen to too many good people, less risk taking, conservative."

I think the more financially responsible you have been, the more likely you are to end up in this version of the "donut hole".

I've heard of parents using large HELOCs, 401K loans to pay for 70K+/year schools for their kids. They are coming up with the money to pay for the schools and they are doing everything that they can to keep their kid's own student loan debt at a minimum....

It's this or choose to go to an in state school which is still not all that cheap and might even still be a stretch for some of these families.

This may be fine if the parents are in their 40s and have time to recover before their own retirement but with people having kids later in life, many parents are close to retirement by the time their kids finish college. Taking a 401k loan in that situation is stupid. I turned down any Ivy to go to a top state school, which my parents fully paid for (times 3 kids). I'd have hated to have my parents sacrifice their own retirement to pay for an expensive school. I loved my college years and have had a great life with my state U diploma. My kids know we can pay for in-state public tuition so they can go public or find another school that provides merit aid to bring the cost down to match that (or lower -- anything they don't spend on undergrad is $ they'll have for grad school). I'm sure they will do fine.

Yep, we're in our 50's so we have less time to financially recover from such a savings drain. But we have also had more time to save than the 40 somethings. I honestly don't think that we would have ever financially recovered if we had drained our home equity and retirement savings (for whatever reason) when we were in our 40's.