Minorities almost never file the appeals that can help secure their admission to AAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we are approaching the whole GT education incorrectly. It should not be something that should be in the forefront to close the achievement gap.

The achievement gap is not beginning in GT education but in regular on-grade education. Sure, as an end result you are seeing less minorities at the GT level, but pushing students into GT who do not have the support (parents, language barrier, poverty, family dynamic) is not going to make these students successful.

As an aside, I have yet to see a student really thrive in a GT program who got in by the appeals process and did not have enormous amount of support at home (tutors and private college counselors). What happens when someone starts helps those people to appeal who do not have the wherewithal to appeal on their own? What happens if their students get in? What kind of resources can the parents muster up to support their child who did not get in in the first place? The outlook is grim here.

+100

I disagree. One issue is that we aren't identifying black and latino students who would thrive in the AAP program.

What I'd like to see is a study for these children who hit benchmark but fail to get into the program. Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will point out two things. First, as a former elementary teacher, I think most Hispanic and black parents are way, way too deferential to teachers' assessment of their children, including AAP resource teacher. In my experience white and especially Asian parents are much, much more willing to go over a teacher's head and advocate for their children to be in the AAP program. They go and appeal and get a wisc. They parent referral so the student is screened regardless. Black and hispanic parents seem to accept a teacher's assessment that their child shouldn't be in the program and leave it at that.

+`

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we are approaching the whole GT education incorrectly. It should not be something that should be in the forefront to close the achievement gap.

The achievement gap is not beginning in GT education but in regular on-grade education. Sure, as an end result you are seeing less minorities at the GT level, but pushing students into GT who do not have the support (parents, language barrier, poverty, family dynamic) is not going to make these students successful.

As an aside, I have yet to see a student really thrive in a GT program who got in by the appeals process and did not have enormous amount of support at home (tutors and private college counselors). What happens when someone starts helps those people to appeal who do not have the wherewithal to appeal on their own? What happens if their students get in? What kind of resources can the parents muster up to support their child who did not get in in the first place? The outlook is grim here.

+100

-1000

You don't know what you are talking about. Lots of students thrive in GT who got in on appeal without enormous support at home.

[Anonymous]

AA mom here who has 2 kids who went through AAP and 1 who is in 2nd now so we will see what happens in April. For my older 2, my story reads like the other AA mom who posted. I remember we had teachers and the AART question why we thought our kids belonged in AAP when we mentioned that we would parent refer if my kids did not get in pool. I was actively discouraged from applying. I had WISCs done on both kids before CogAT results came in. Son's FSIQ was 142 and daughter's was 139. Both ended up in pool. After the school sent their applications to the screening committee, I asked to see my children's files. Work samples were horrible and GBRSs were low. Both under 10. My extremely gifted children got under 10s. I had my own thoughts on why. My kids did very well in both ES and MS AAP. They are both Freshman at Phillips Academy now. Luckily, DH and I are both MDs and have the money to pay for WISCs, without giving it a thought.

For my 2nd grader, we had a WISC done before CogAt came back. His FSIQ is 138 on WISC-V (different WISC then his siblings took) and he's also in pool. I have not seen his file yet but I won't be surprised if the GBRS is under 10 again just because. I can't speak to AA and the appeals process but I can say there is bias at play and even in spite of scores, some AARTs and teachers don't see AA kids as gifted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AA mom here who has 2 kids who went through AAP and 1 who is in 2nd now so we will see what happens in April. For my older 2, my story reads like the other AA mom who posted. I remember we had teachers and the AART question why we thought our kids belonged in AAP when we mentioned that we would parent refer if my kids did not get in pool. I was actively discouraged from applying. I had WISCs done on both kids before CogAT results came in. Son's FSIQ was 142 and daughter's was 139. Both ended up in pool. After the school sent their applications to the screening committee, I asked to see my children's files. Work samples were horrible and GBRSs were low. Both under 10. My extremely gifted children got under 10s. I had my own thoughts on why. My kids did very well in both ES and MS AAP. They are both Freshman at Phillips Academy now. Luckily, DH and I are both MDs and have the money to pay for WISCs, without giving it a thought.

For my 2nd grader, we had a WISC done before CogAt came back. His FSIQ is 138 on WISC-V (different WISC then his siblings took) and he's also in pool. I have not seen his file yet but I won't be surprised if the GBRS is under 10 again just because. I can't speak to AA and the appeals process but I can say there is bias at play and even in spite of scores, some AARTs and teachers don't see AA kids as gifted.

Another AA mom with kids in AAP. Yup, this. One thought I had was that since my kids were high achieving, the base didn't want to lose them because one of their annual thingies on the school profile report was to reduce the achievement gap between white and black children.

I was also appalled by the packet the AART put together. My DD's GBRS was a 6. My DS' was a 7. I parent referred and got the WISC for both of them. They were in pool but rejected. I used the WISC for the appeal (thanks DCUM) and they both got in.

[Anonymous]

Agree with the AA parents posting here, based on what I've seen and heard through the grapevine. I also think this is true for Latino kids (FWIW, my kids are half-Latino; it's too soon to know with our younger kids, but the oldest did get into the program on appeal last year), especially Latino kids whose parents don't speak English very well. It's messed up, because if a kid comes from a home where English isn't the first language and the parents don't have a lot of formal education and they STILL manage to come within a few points of the cutoff, you'd think there would be an aggressive move to get those kids into the program, if for no other reason than to make the numbers for URM students look a lot better than they do. I do think some schools work really hard to help kids like these, but schools with great AARTs can only do so much if the AART and parent liaisons are on part-time contracts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the AA parents posting here, based on what I've seen and heard through the grapevine. I also think this is true for Latino kids (FWIW, my kids are half-Latino; it's too soon to know with our younger kids, but the oldest did get into the program on appeal last year), especially Latino kids whose parents don't speak English very well. It's messed up, because if a kid comes from a home where English isn't the first language and the parents don't have a lot of formal education and they STILL manage to come within a few points of the cutoff, you'd think there would be an aggressive move to get those kids into the program, if for no other reason than to make the numbers for URM students look a lot better than they do. I do think some schools work really hard to help kids like these, but schools with great AARTs can only do so much if the AART and parent liaisons are on part-time contracts.

I'm not saying they can't do more, I'm just pointing out that they do indicate in the AAP packets whether kids are ESOL, and I understood that was so the committee would pay special attention to those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the AA parents posting here, based on what I've seen and heard through the grapevine. I also think this is true for Latino kids (FWIW, my kids are half-Latino; it's too soon to know with our younger kids, but the oldest did get into the program on appeal last year), especially Latino kids whose parents don't speak English very well. It's messed up, because if a kid comes from a home where English isn't the first language and the parents don't have a lot of formal education and they STILL manage to come within a few points of the cutoff, you'd think there would be an aggressive move to get those kids into the program, if for no other reason than to make the numbers for URM students look a lot better than they do. I do think some schools work really hard to help kids like these, but schools with great AARTs can only do so much if the AART and parent liaisons are on part-time contracts.

I'm not saying they can't do more, I'm just pointing out that they do indicate in the AAP packets whether kids are ESOL, and I understood that was so the committee would pay special attention to those.

I know, but a lot of the kids aren't in ESOL, or at least they're not by the time they're in second grade. Their parents may not speak English well, but the kids are proficient. There's a space to indicate which languages are spoken in the home, and that's definitely useful information to have, but I don't know if it's weighted the same as being in ESOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the AA parents posting here, based on what I've seen and heard through the grapevine. I also think this is true for Latino kids (FWIW, my kids are half-Latino; it's too soon to know with our younger kids, but the oldest did get into the program on appeal last year), especially Latino kids whose parents don't speak English very well. It's messed up, because if a kid comes from a home where English isn't the first language and the parents don't have a lot of formal education and they STILL manage to come within a few points of the cutoff, you'd think there would be an aggressive move to get those kids into the program, if for no other reason than to make the numbers for URM students look a lot better than they do. I do think some schools work really hard to help kids like these, but schools with great AARTs can only do so much if the AART and parent liaisons are on part-time contracts.

I'm not saying they can't do more, I'm just pointing out that they do indicate in the AAP packets whether kids are ESOL, and I understood that was so the committee would pay special attention to those.

I know, but a lot of the kids aren't in ESOL, or at least they're not by the time they're in second grade. Their parents may not speak English well, but the kids are proficient. There's a space to indicate which languages are spoken in the home, and that's definitely useful information to have, but I don't know if it's weighted the same as being in ESOL.

I've seen this myself as a former 4th grade teacher. I had a student who came to the country from central America with zero English in K and was doing amazingly in my GE class. She was exactly the type of thinker AAP was made for. Incredibly creative, strong analytical skills and an amazing memory. Like one of the best I've ever seen. I actually referred her for level III services and eventually encouraged the parents (who spoke no English) to refer her to be screened again.

I read her second grade file. She exited services (IN TWO YEARS PEOPLE THAT'S INSANE). That should have been a huge red flag for the AART. It wasn't. Her package was weak. I put together a much stronger package and with her parents support she got a second COGAT and is currently in AAP in middle school now, thriving apparently.

So, I would say the AARTs aren't exactly taking a close look at ESOL students necessarily.

[Anonymous]

us



You know what I love? Right when we started to hear from black and latino parents this thread will die a slow death.

I thank them for their contributions because it should be a god damn sticky. It totally tracks my experience as a latina mother with a child in the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:us



You know what I love? Right when we started to hear from black and latino parents this thread will die a slow death.

I thank them for their contributions because it should be a god damn sticky. It totally tracks my experience as a latina mother with a child in the program.

Happens all the time here. Seems like all the nonminorities like to talk amongst themselves in their own bubble, then reality comes along and it isn’t fun anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:us



You know what I love? Right when we started to hear from black and latino parents this thread will die a slow death.

I thank them for their contributions because it should be a god damn sticky. It totally tracks my experience as a latina mother with a child in the program.

Happens all the time here. Seems like all the nonminorities like to talk amongst themselves in their own bubble, then reality comes along and it isn’t fun anymore.

+1

[Anonymous]

Racism is so pervasive. This makes me so sad. I am a educated black woman and can see the microagressions and slights my son has faced since kindergarten. I guess I better get ready to parent refer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Racism is so pervasive. This makes me so sad. I am a educated black woman and can see the microagressions and slights my son has faced since kindergarten. I guess I better get ready to parent refer.

Yes, you should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Racism is so pervasive. This makes me so sad. I am a educated black woman and can see the microagressions and slights my son has faced since kindergarten. I guess I better get ready to parent refer.

While some individuals may not be supportive, the system is set up to work for your child, as it should. Don’t be discouraged!