Hearing Testimony on FCPS Proposed CIP

[Anonymous]

This school board has the guts of a jellyfish! They can't even be bothered to make decision to move kids that are in 19 trailers in one school when a neighboring school has had an abundance of space for several years (and they knew that there would be capacity). They spent an inordinate amount of time trying to pin down the starting date for school in 2018 given a range of 7 days.

Seriously... you have got to be crazy if you think they can make any decision as significant as rezoning so many schools and shutting down a high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a plan to close Lee:

Move Bren Mar Park back to Annandale from Edison [Annandale is projected to have space]

Move Springfield Estates and Lynbrook from Lee to Edison [Swap at Edison - might need to add modular]

Move Forestdale from Lee to Hayfield [Hayfield is projected to have space]

Move Saratoga from Lee to South County [SoCo is projected to have space]

Move Crestwood and the portion of Rolling Valley at Lee to West Springfield [Swap at West Springfield]

Move Orange Hunt and the portion of Sangster at West Springfield to Lake Braddock [Swap at West Springfield; Lake Braddocik is projected to have space]

They should keep Mount Vernon open, but move Fort Hunt there from West Potomac

[Mount Vernon is projected to have space]

Sorry but this is the silliest, most ridiculous and disruptive idea ever posted on this board about redistricting, and that is saying a lot.

Why? Scared of kids from Lee coming to your school?

Because it shows how very disruptive closing a high school would be.

I think I can give a little context to the rumor that the county is considering closing Lee. The issue came up once when main office assessment folks were discussing what could happen if Lee runs into trouble with student performance on a state level. One way to avoid having Virginia DOE sanctions is to essentially close the school. Alexandria, for example, did this when it built the new Jefferson Houston elementary school.

The issue for Lee is that it's sort of a perfect storm on the eastern/southern side of the county. There's actually sufficient room in the neighboring schools to redistrict everyone to new middle/high schools.

So, why would the county consider this? If Lee is within spitting distance of running into Virginia DOE sanctions, then a plan of some sort needed to be thought through. The closing of the school was one scenario that could accomplish this.

Then the question is what do you do with Lee? It's a good building and decent property. One thought was to do a consolidation of the IB programs on the eastern/south eastern part of the county. That idea is something that hasn't been developed yet, but the super is likely going to consider putting resources to see if it makes sense from an efficiency standpoint.

-Someone who works in the Gatehouse.

Right now Lee is fully accredited, so any issue with test scores would be several years away. And the scores actually seem pretty stable right now.

The surrounding schools are projected to have room for only about 740 students in five years (room at Annandale, South County, and Hayfield; Edison and West Springfield will be over capacity in five years.). Lee is projected to have 1802 students at that time, so you would be short more than 1000 seats. Some of the spare space at Hayfield may get used if they move students out of West Potomac to Hayfield and Mount Vernon. Overcrowding at Falls Church and Stuart, as is projected in five years, would most likely be relieved by moving some students to Annandale, using up some of that space. So it seems very unlikely to me that they will have enough room to close Lee. Closing a high school also might cause a cascade of boundary changes sure to anger many constituents.

As for an IB magnet at Lee - are we talking a dedicated IB program with no regular student body? Not sure you could sell that to enough students to make it worth while. You would particularly have to sell it to students from the surrounding schools to free up enough room in those schools for the students that would have to be relocated from Lee. I'm just not sure, given the choice of AP at their home high school, versus IB at a school that is farther away, is a real selling point. They would have to make is feel exclusive like TJ. Are they willing to do that?

If you work at Gatehouse, do FCPS staff members or School Board members ever admit they totally screwed Lee? Boundary changes without regards to demographics? Sticking with the IB program despite it being the leading reason for students pupil placement out of Lee? Reduction of the language program to the bare minimum (leading to more pupil placements)? It seems like they didn't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a plan to close Lee:

Move Bren Mar Park back to Annandale from Edison [Annandale is projected to have space]

Move Springfield Estates and Lynbrook from Lee to Edison [Swap at Edison - might need to add modular]

Move Forestdale from Lee to Hayfield [Hayfield is projected to have space]

Move Saratoga from Lee to South County [SoCo is projected to have space]

Move Crestwood and the portion of Rolling Valley at Lee to West Springfield [Swap at West Springfield]

Move Orange Hunt and the portion of Sangster at West Springfield to Lake Braddock [Swap at West Springfield; Lake Braddocik is projected to have space]

They should keep Mount Vernon open, but move Fort Hunt there from West Potomac

[Mount Vernon is projected to have space]

Sorry but this is the silliest, most ridiculous and disruptive idea ever posted on this board about redistricting, and that is saying a lot.

Why? Scared of kids from Lee coming to your school?

Because it shows how very disruptive closing a high school would be.

I think I can give a little context to the rumor that the county is considering closing Lee. The issue came up once when main office assessment folks were discussing what could happen if Lee runs into trouble with student performance on a state level. One way to avoid having Virginia DOE sanctions is to essentially close the school. Alexandria, for example, did this when it built the new Jefferson Houston elementary school.

The issue for Lee is that it's sort of a perfect storm on the eastern/southern side of the county. There's actually sufficient room in the neighboring schools to redistrict everyone to new middle/high schools.

So, why would the county consider this? If Lee is within spitting distance of running into Virginia DOE sanctions, then a plan of some sort needed to be thought through. The closing of the school was one scenario that could accomplish this.

Then the question is what do you do with Lee? It's a good building and decent property. One thought was to do a consolidation of the IB programs on the eastern/south eastern part of the county. That idea is something that hasn't been developed yet, but the super is likely going to consider putting resources to see if it makes sense from an efficiency standpoint.

-Someone who works in the Gatehouse.

That is not the same.thing as closing Lee. That is just consolidating several small magnet programs into one place.

However doing this will probably result in a situation where instead of one low performing school, you end up with several okay schools dropping to not so okay and several strong schools dropping into okay ish performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This school board has the guts of a jellyfish! They can't even be bothered to make decision to move kids that are in 19 trailers in one school when a neighboring school has had an abundance of space for several years (and they knew that there would be capacity). They spent an inordinate amount of time trying to pin down the starting date for school in 2018 given a range of 7 days.

Seriously... you have got to be crazy if you think they can make any decision as significant as rezoning so many schools and shutting down a high school.

This!

And you think that people got their undies in a wad over a dozen Daventry kids per grade rezoning frok Lee to WSHS, or those Haycock kids getting reassigned AAP centers from equivalent quality elementary schools, imagine the righteous outrage that would happen if the school board decides to completely rezone a dozen or so elementary schools affecting thousands of families.

The school board would have to be a combination of crazy, ballsy and incredibly stupid to do something like this.

That would be worse than jumping on top of a yellow jacket nest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a plan to close Lee:

Move Bren Mar Park back to Annandale from Edison [Annandale is projected to have space]

Move Springfield Estates and Lynbrook from Lee to Edison [Swap at Edison - might need to add modular]

Move Forestdale from Lee to Hayfield [Hayfield is projected to have space]

Move Saratoga from Lee to South County [SoCo is projected to have space]

Move Crestwood and the portion of Rolling Valley at Lee to West Springfield [Swap at West Springfield]

Move Orange Hunt and the portion of Sangster at West Springfield to Lake Braddock [Swap at West Springfield; Lake Braddocik is projected to have space]

They should keep Mount Vernon open, but move Fort Hunt there from West Potomac

[Mount Vernon is projected to have space]

Sorry but this is the silliest, most ridiculous and disruptive idea ever posted on this board about redistricting, and that is saying a lot.

Why? Scared of kids from Lee coming to your school?

Because it shows how very disruptive closing a high school would be.

It may be disruptive to close a high school, but it's also disgraceful to neglect one.

Lee is not get neglected.

They were given IB.

They are given more funds.

They have beautiful athletic fields.

They are smaller than all of the surrounding high schools.

Their building needs updating, but that will come.in time.

They have some great teachers there.

They are not being neglected. They serve a needier population so they have lower achievement in spite of getting more funds and more attention.

Your idea disrupts the lives, plans and yes, real estate values of thousands of families. And it does not guarantee higher achievement anywhere.

It is a silly idea.

Moving 10 or so kids per grade so they are zoned for the same middle and high school as every other kid in their school is a non disruptive, low cost, smart idea.

No high achieving families want IB

The school is smaller because no one wants to be there. Anyone with resources/savvy will avoid.

No plans in CIP for renovation.

The scores will not change as long as the school population doesn't change.

They are neglected as the local population doesn't vote or is ineligible to do so.

These are hard facts, but they are true.

[Anonymous]

No high achieving families want IB

The school is smaller because no one wants to be there. Anyone with resources/savvy will avoid.

No plans in CIP for renovation.

The scores will not change as long as the school population doesn't change.

They are neglected as the local population doesn't vote or is ineligible to do so.

These are hard facts, but they are true.

Lee was renovated in 2005. It is in good shape. Why do people think it needs to be renovated? Have you been inside the school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a plan to close Lee:

Move Bren Mar Park back to Annandale from Edison [Annandale is projected to have space]

Move Springfield Estates and Lynbrook from Lee to Edison [Swap at Edison - might need to add modular]

Move Forestdale from Lee to Hayfield [Hayfield is projected to have space]

Move Saratoga from Lee to South County [SoCo is projected to have space]

Move Crestwood and the portion of Rolling Valley at Lee to West Springfield [Swap at West Springfield]

Move Orange Hunt and the portion of Sangster at West Springfield to Lake Braddock [Swap at West Springfield; Lake Braddocik is projected to have space]

They should keep Mount Vernon open, but move Fort Hunt there from West Potomac

[Mount Vernon is projected to have space]

Sorry but this is the silliest, most ridiculous and disruptive idea ever posted on this board about redistricting, and that is saying a lot.

Why? Scared of kids from Lee coming to your school?

Because it shows how very disruptive closing a high school would be.

I think I can give a little context to the rumor that the county is considering closing Lee. The issue came up once when main office assessment folks were discussing what could happen if Lee runs into trouble with student performance on a state level. One way to avoid having Virginia DOE sanctions is to essentially close the school. Alexandria, for example, did this when it built the new Jefferson Houston elementary school.

The issue for Lee is that it's sort of a perfect storm on the eastern/southern side of the county. There's actually sufficient room in the neighboring schools to redistrict everyone to new middle/high schools.

So, why would the county consider this? If Lee is within spitting distance of running into Virginia DOE sanctions, then a plan of some sort needed to be thought through. The closing of the school was one scenario that could accomplish this.

Then the question is what do you do with Lee? It's a good building and decent property. One thought was to do a consolidation of the IB programs on the eastern/south eastern part of the county. That idea is something that hasn't been developed yet, but the super is likely going to consider putting resources to see if it makes sense from an efficiency standpoint.

-Someone who works in the Gatehouse.

Right now Lee is fully accredited, so any issue with test scores would be several years away. And the scores actually seem pretty stable right now.

The surrounding schools are projected to have room for only about 740 students in five years (room at Annandale, South County, and Hayfield; Edison and West Springfield will be over capacity in five years.). Lee is projected to have 1802 students at that time, so you would be short more than 1000 seats. Some of the spare space at Hayfield may get used if they move students out of West Potomac to Hayfield and Mount Vernon. Overcrowding at Falls Church and Stuart, as is projected in five years, would most likely be relieved by moving some students to Annandale, using up some of that space. So it seems very unlikely to me that they will have enough room to close Lee. Closing a high school also might cause a cascade of boundary changes sure to anger many constituents.

As for an IB magnet at Lee - are we talking a dedicated IB program with no regular student body? Not sure you could sell that to enough students to make it worth while. You would particularly have to sell it to students from the surrounding schools to free up enough room in those schools for the students that would have to be relocated from Lee. I'm just not sure, given the choice of AP at their home high school, versus IB at a school that is farther away, is a real selling point. They would have to make is feel exclusive like TJ. Are they willing to do that?

If you work at Gatehouse, do FCPS staff members or School Board members ever admit they totally screwed Lee? Boundary changes without regards to demographics? Sticking with the IB program despite it being the leading reason for students pupil placement out of Lee? Reduction of the language program to the bare minimum (leading to more pupil placements)? It seems like they didn't care.

First, I think the biggest thing that people in my area focus on is delivery. We don't actually talk about specific schools because we're more of a subject matter resource. That said, the county does want to avoid having to deal with state oversight and there are concerns for all of the schools. Hence project momentum.

Lee was noticed because unlike Stuart, it didn't have the level of improvement. That led to the question of what happens if things get worse and the state got involved. FWIW Mount Vernon was also discussed and there's no clear answer that came of it. People seemed more excited about the Lee fix and seemed to accept that Mount Vernon might just be the place where the county can't avoid oversight. No one wants multiple schools with state oversight. It's bad for the county's PR that its schools are good. You can explain away an exception, but two...Hence, the discussion of moving Lee in different directions.

Your math was helpful. One thing you didn't catch was that Lake Braddock and Robinson both have capacity. The shifts also included moving some of the West Springfield feeders to Lake Braddock and moving Lake Braddock feeders to Robinson, fwiw. Both secondaries have capacity space for a few hundred additional students.

As for the IB idea? There was a census and when they looked at the feeders, there's about 450-500 students who are enrolled in the full IB program among the schools. So, the thought is definitely whether the county ought to consider creating a single stand alone IB school with a lottery process (based on middle school feeders--each one would get a certain amount of seats). What someone said was -- what if we created an HB Woodlawn here? There was a bunch of discussion but nothing is set in stone. There isn't even funding to figure out whether this is possible. The super would need to add it to a priority list and right now nothing is changing this year or next year.

The big sale is an economic one. They don't have funding to actually study this now, but someone pointed out that consolidation could save a good amount of money. This is going to require Board buy in and is a drama filled idea but something that is on the table.

[Anonymous]

And btw, the concern about things getting worse is that ability to give ESOL students a different SOL test option changed.

[Anonymous]

An appointed School Board, rather than an elected one, would have done a better job managing the schools. They would not have been directly beholden to the voters (voters would have to get rid of the County Supervisors to get rid of School Board members). Up until 1994 or so FCPS did have an appointed School Board. Pretty much when the divide started to open in Fairfax. Really started to take a turn for the worse between 2000 and 2010.

This particular School Board seems incapable of comprehending long term consequences, accounting for all of the facts, or making tough decisions. Whoever yells the most gets their way. No way to run a school system.

Although it today's age of crazy parents, perhaps even an appointed School Board would be afraid to make tough decisions. And this site is full of some of the craziest parents out there. Redshirting, helicopter parents, my kid must qualify for AAP, Great Schools score of at least an 8, blah, blah, blah...

And I don't understand how the liberal voters of Fairfax can be so blatantly hypocritical - yes, let's vote for politicians who are in favor of unchecked immigration, but I'm not sending my kids to the schools where there are too many of them. My kids are too good for that. Their justifications as to why seem to know no end!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An appointed School Board, rather than an elected one, would have done a better job managing the schools. They would not have been directly beholden to the voters (voters would have to get rid of the County Supervisors to get rid of School Board members). Up until 1994 or so FCPS did have an appointed School Board. Pretty much when the divide started to open in Fairfax. Really started to take a turn for the worse between 2000 and 2010.

This particular School Board seems incapable of comprehending long term consequences, accounting for all of the facts, or making tough decisions. Whoever yells the most gets their way. No way to run a school system.

Although it today's age of crazy parents, perhaps even an appointed School Board would be afraid to make tough decisions. And this site is full of some of the craziest parents out there. Redshirting, helicopter parents, my kid must qualify for AAP, Great Schools score of at least an 8, blah, blah, blah...

And I don't understand how the liberal voters of Fairfax can be so blatantly hypocritical - yes, let's vote for politicians who are in favor of unchecked immigration, but I'm not sending my kids to the schools where there are too many of them. My kids are too good for that. Their justifications as to why seem to know no end!

Wat? Crazy rant. I actually am here for the Gatehouse insider. Please spill the tea!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An appointed School Board, rather than an elected one, would have done a better job managing the schools. They would not have been directly beholden to the voters (voters would have to get rid of the County Supervisors to get rid of School Board members). Up until 1994 or so FCPS did have an appointed School Board. Pretty much when the divide started to open in Fairfax. Really started to take a turn for the worse between 2000 and 2010.

This particular School Board seems incapable of comprehending long term consequences, accounting for all of the facts, or making tough decisions. Whoever yells the most gets their way. No way to run a school system.

Although it today's age of crazy parents, perhaps even an appointed School Board would be afraid to make tough decisions. And this site is full of some of the craziest parents out there. Redshirting, helicopter parents, my kid must qualify for AAP, Great Schools score of at least an 8, blah, blah, blah...

And I don't understand how the liberal voters of Fairfax can be so blatantly hypocritical - yes, let's vote for politicians who are in favor of unchecked immigration, but I'm not sending my kids to the schools where there are too many of them. My kids are too good for that. Their justifications as to why seem to know no end!

Wat? Crazy rant. I actually am here for the Gatehouse insider. Please spill the tea!

Frustrated, not crazy. Unless you are one of the crazy parents...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be interested in seeing data on the number of households in Fairfax Co. with school-aged children that do not attend public school.

You can look at the number of private schools as a proxy for that information. The number is low.

I disagree. The number is quite high and growing in areas of the county where schools are underperforming. People are voting with their feet and bailing on the public schools - esp. in Mount Vernon and Lee neighborhoods.

The number is not high.

There are very few private or parochial high schools in northern Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Instead of an IB magnet school, they should consider either a performing arts magnet or a foreign languages/immersion magnet. That would maybe draw enough interest from the other areas of the county to fully fill Lee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Instead of an IB magnet school, they should consider either a performing arts magnet or a foreign languages/immersion magnet. That would maybe draw enough interest from the other areas of the county to fully fill Lee.

This is a great idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead of an IB magnet school, they should consider either a performing arts magnet or a foreign languages/immersion magnet. That would maybe draw enough interest from the other areas of the county to fully fill Lee.

This is a great idea.

Not as good or as practical an idea as just consolidating the IB programs from Annandale, Edison, Lee and Mount Vernon there.