Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge

[Anonymous]

OP, are you new to the United States? We have these things called the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Refer to the 1st Amendment.

Of course he doesn't have to say it. He doesn't even need to stand, but it's polite of him to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this

You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.

But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.

The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .

Anyone who has chosen teaching as their profession has a vested interest in the children in their class exceeding their potential. Regardless of what country they might be citizens of or what pledge they might say at the beginning of the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the children are required to say it, the teacher should say it as well. That's just basic respect. This idea that "I don't have to follow rules if I don't agree with them" is infecting our culture. My family members served in the military. They didn't agree with many of the rules, but you can't have everyone making it up as they go along. Following rules is what makes us civilized. The teacher is entitled to free speech, but not at school where the rules require saying the pledge, unless you've taken a (real) religious exemption.

ITA. I don't think that the Pledge of Allegiance is even religious. If someone doesn't want to say "under God" then they don't have to say those two words.

It is religious as long at "under God" is in the pledge regardless if someone doesn't say those two words- they are still in the pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America (not religious)

and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation (not religious)

under God (the only religious words - don't say them if you don't want to)

indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. (not religious)


Teaching our public school kids in this country is a privilege, not a right. And, yes, if you are going to be teaching in a United States school then you should absolutely be a loyal American whose allegiance is to the United States of America and who believes in liberty and justice for all citizens in this country.

I really don't want someone with an allegiance to England (or wherever else) teaching my kids while secretly hoping that the kids in "their" country learn more than mine do. That would be a pretty big conflict of interest.

Please be a troll. Please. No one can be this awful and stupid.

I know-maybe we should reinstate the committee on in-American activities?

Ugh.

Doesn't the committee already put on a nice display during Hate Week every year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this

You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.

But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.

The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .

PP, you seem to be carefully avoiding the constitutional issues involved. Does the Constitution not matter to you?

The Constitution applies to U.S. citizens. Of course it matters.

Logic or information is not a strong suit for your ilk, is it. The Constitution offers the same protections when it comes to this issue to citizens and non-citizens alike. Please just go back into the hole you came out of.

Actually, I don't think that non-citizens get the exact same protections as U.S. citizens....I'm not well versed on Constitutional law (not sure why I would be, I'm not a Constitutional law attorney).

Then why are you making uneducated comments? Yes, everyone in 'murka is afforded same First Amendment protections. Free speech is not only for citizens. Ever consider that half of that classroom could be citizens of some other nation? I live in DC and my son's classroom is probably 50% non-American (diplomats mostly). Good luck requiring them to say the pledge. But even my American kid is not required and will never be. I urge you to read, study, inform yourself before making inflammatory, stupid statements.

Never said that all students should be required to say the pledge. I really don't care what your child's classroom make up is - it doesn't make your opinion any more valid than anyone else's. And if you think that only Constitutional law attorneys are "allowed" to have an opinion as to what goes on our children's schools - oh well, you are dead wrong on that.

It does matter that you are making statements affirming something you know absolutely nothing about. So, no, you don't have to be a constitutional scholar, but you at least should know the basis if you are going to be arguing about it.

Well, call me an idiot. But the Constitution was originally intended to protect the freedom of U.S. citizens. If we have somehow managed to interpret it in ways that are contrary to the well being of this country and it's lawful citizens it is time to revisit those interpretations. Something is out of whack.

Here you go again, making statements about the Constitution after admitting that you are actually not a scholar. I'll also add that the only thing "out of whack" is you. The Constitution is just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this

You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.

But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.

The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .

Anyone who has chosen teaching as their profession has a vested interest in the children in their class exceeding their potential. Regardless of what country they might be citizens of or what pledge they might say at the beginning of the day.

An American teacher who is planning to raise her kids and retire in America is going to view this country differently than a visiting teacher from another country. Someone from Europe is not going to care as much about American kids' futures as an American teacher will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this

You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.

But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.

The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .

Anyone who has chosen teaching as their profession has a vested interest in the children in their class exceeding their potential. Regardless of what country they might be citizens of or what pledge they might say at the beginning of the day.

An American teacher who is planning to raise her kids and retire in America is going to view this country differently than a visiting teacher from another country. Someone from Europe is not going to care as much about American kids' futures as an American teacher will.

Maybe in your cynical world that is true. Not the case with most teachers I know.

[Anonymous]

The problem today is that it is hard to know with those teachers whether they really MEAN what they say in the pledge, or if they are just saying what they know they need to, but really have an allegiance to England in their hearts.

Let me tell you something, if they think that their Ian is going to out-perform my little Johnny on the annual standardized test, they have another thing coming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An American teacher who is planning to raise her kids and retire in America is going to view this country differently than a visiting teacher from another country. Someone from Europe is not going to care as much about American kids' futures as an American teacher will.

I have students in my classroom who are citizens of a dozen different countries. I guarantee you I teach them all to the best of my abilities, never giving one student better instruction than another because of their nationality. I went into teaching to help children, not just american childnen. I guarantee you I would feel the same if I went to teach in a different country. Teachers love seeing light bulbs go on for kids, no matter where they are from or where they will launch their careers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the children are required to say it, the teacher should say it as well. That's just basic respect. This idea that "I don't have to follow rules if I don't agree with them" is infecting our culture. My family members served in the military. They didn't agree with many of the rules, but you can't have everyone making it up as they go along. Following rules is what makes us civilized. The teacher is entitled to free speech, but not at school where the rules require saying the pledge, unless you've taken a (real) religious exemption.

ITA. I don't think that the Pledge of Allegiance is even religious. If someone doesn't want to say "under God" then they don't have to say those two words.

It is religious as long at "under God" is in the pledge regardless if someone doesn't say those two words- they are still in the pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America (not religious)

and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation (not religious)

under God (the only religious words - don't say them if you don't want to)

indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. (not religious)


Teaching our public school kids in this country is a privilege, not a right. And, yes, if you are going to be teaching in a United States school then you should absolutely be a loyal American whose allegiance is to the United States of America and who believes in liberty and justice for all citizens in this country.

I really don't want someone with an allegiance to England (or wherever else) teaching my kids while secretly hoping that the kids in "their" country learn more than mine do. That would be a pretty big conflict of interest.

Please be a troll. Please. No one can be this awful and stupid.

I know-maybe we should reinstate the committee on in-American activities?

Ugh.

Doesn't the committee already put on a nice display during Hate Week every year?

WTH? How do you know what my skin color is or what my religion is? "Awful and stupid", "idiot". Yeah, I'm the hateful one. NOT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem today is that it is hard to know with those teachers whether they really MEAN what they say in the pledge, or if they are just saying what they know they need to, but really have an allegiance to England in their hearts.

Let me tell you something, if they think that their Ian is going to out-perform my little Johnny on the annual standardized test, they have another thing coming.

This is true. Usually while I recite the pledge I'm planning how much better the classroom will be when I implement an afternoon tea break and can teach the kids to say "lift" instead of elevator.

Plus, corgis. Class mascot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An American teacher who is planning to raise her kids and retire in America is going to view this country differently than a visiting teacher from another country. Someone from Europe is not going to care as much about American kids' futures as an American teacher will.

I have students in my classroom who are citizens of a dozen different countries. I guarantee you I teach them all to the best of my abilities, never giving one student better instruction than another because of their nationality. I went into teaching to help children, not just american childnen. I guarantee you I would feel the same if I went to teach in a different country. Teachers love seeing light bulbs go on for kids, no matter where they are from or where they will launch their careers.

Yes, in your American classroom you treat all of your students the same. And some of those kids who are not citizens today may become citizens tomorrow. And those kids will be the tax payers running this country and taking care of YOU in your old age. You have every reason to invest your time, attention, energy into educating them to the best of your ability. Their education, or lack thereof in some cases, will absolutely impact YOU quite directly.

But...if you went over to England to teach for a couple of years, site see, etc. You would do a good job I'm sure but your commitment to those kids is short term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem today is that it is hard to know with those teachers whether they really MEAN what they say in the pledge, or if they are just saying what they know they need to, but really have an allegiance to England in their hearts.

Let me tell you something, if they think that their Ian is going to out-perform my little Johnny on the annual standardized test, they have another thing coming.

This is true. Usually while I recite the pledge I'm planning how much better the classroom will be when I implement an afternoon tea break and can teach the kids to say "lift" instead of elevator.

Plus, corgis. Class mascot.

I mean, the way things are going, you could teach them that England actually suppressed the Revolution, and when people start complaining, just say it's alternative facts, and you have just as much right to teach them as the facts the rest of us think are true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An American teacher who is planning to raise her kids and retire in America is going to view this country differently than a visiting teacher from another country. Someone from Europe is not going to care as much about American kids' futures as an American teacher will.

I have students in my classroom who are citizens of a dozen different countries. I guarantee you I teach them all to the best of my abilities, never giving one student better instruction than another because of their nationality. I went into teaching to help children, not just american childnen. I guarantee you I would feel the same if I went to teach in a different country. Teachers love seeing light bulbs go on for kids, no matter where they are from or where they will launch their careers.

Yes, in your American classroom you treat all of your students the same. And some of those kids who are not citizens today may become citizens tomorrow. And those kids will be the tax payers running this country and taking care of YOU in your old age. You have every reason to invest your time, attention, energy into educating them to the best of your ability. Their education, or lack thereof in some cases, will absolutely impact YOU quite directly.

But...if you went over to England to teach for a couple of years, site see, etc. You would do a good job I'm sure but your commitment to those kids is short term.

It is astonishing and sad that the people who profess to love this country so much know (and care) so little about its governing documents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not a republic. It's an oligarchy.

It's a country. Not a nation.

There is not liberty and justice for all.

It's not indivisible.

It's a stupid pledge. Thinking anyone should be forced to say it is even stupider.

+1

I'm a high school math teacher. I don't say the pledge because I think it is ridiculous to say those words every day. I invite all you pledge lovers to begin each day at your work by solemnly standing up and reciting the pledge before getting back to work. Better yet, try to get everyone in your office on board and lead them in a group recitation of the pledge every morning. See how long that lasts.

Yeah, we don't have home room, pep rallies, yearbook, band and football at work, either. It's a pledge said one time at the beginning of the morning with your students. I'm actually really surprised that this is even a big deal. If I remember correctly, by the time I was in HS we said the pledge in our sub school or even in the cafeteria....as opposed to inside a classroom.

Exactly! The pledge is not a big deal at all. Why in the world should we require students to stand up and mumble the pledge every single morning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the children are required to say it, the teacher should say it as well. That's just basic respect. This idea that "I don't have to follow rules if I don't agree with them" is infecting our culture. My family members served in the military. They didn't agree with many of the rules, but you can't have everyone making it up as they go along. Following rules is what makes us civilized. The teacher is entitled to free speech, but not at school where the rules require saying the pledge, unless you've taken a (real) religious exemption.

ITA. I don't think that the Pledge of Allegiance is even religious. If someone doesn't want to say "under God" then they don't have to say those two words.

It is religious as long at "under God" is in the pledge regardless if someone doesn't say those two words- they are still in the pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America (not religious)

and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation (not religious)

under God (the only religious words - don't say them if you don't want to)

indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. (not religious)


Teaching our public school kids in this country is a privilege, not a right. And, yes, if you are going to be teaching in a United States school then you should absolutely be a loyal American whose allegiance is to the United States of America and who believes in liberty and justice for all citizens in this country.

I really don't want someone with an allegiance to England (or wherever else) teaching my kids while secretly hoping that the kids in "their" country learn more than mine do. That would be a pretty big conflict of interest.

Please be a troll. Please. No one can be this awful and stupid.

I know-maybe we should reinstate the committee on in-American activities?

Ugh.

Doesn't the committee already put on a nice display during Hate Week every year?

WTH? How do you know what my skin color is or what my religion is? "Awful and stupid", "idiot". Yeah, I'm the hateful one. NOT.

I mean, calling names isn't nice. But no offence (uh oh, I've given myself away!), OP, your comments are well past stupidity, and straying perilously close to outright idiocy.

As for hateful, we really have no way of knowing. But, extrapolating from your comments here, and the other beliefs espoused by people who hold similar positions . . . well, if I were a Magic 8 Ball, I'd sat, "Outlook not so good."