Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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No one is saying it is. If you read the OP, the suggestion was that NOT saying the pledge was an outrage. No one on this thread has argued that teachers/children/anyone should be prohibited from saying the pledge.

But, some people seem to take pride in not saying it--that is what is sad.

Think of all those young men landing on the beaches in Normandy..........

Random reference to WWII...ok?? But generally our armed forces fight to protect our freedoms, including free speech. It's sad that people don't understand that because it's such a fundamental part of the US history and identity.

The highlighted portion. DH spent 26 years in the military, got to deploy to some lovely garden spots, and the primary reason he served was to protect and defend the Constitution. While he was active duty he carried a pocket sized Constitution with him, as a reminder. If a teacher or student doesn't want to say the pledge, that is OK. Forcing them to say the pledge is wrong.

No one can force us to say the pledge, or sing the Happy Birthday song or even say "Here" during roll call. But unless you have a strong personal/religious reason for not doing so, why not participate?

Why do you need a "strong personal/religious reason"? And who is to judge what is "strong"?

the person who doesn't participate is the one that judges what is strong.

yeah, I have a strong objection to saying "Please" and "Thank you" - that is MY right!

So you equate a pledge of allegiance to common courtesy? Ooooooookay.

You don't appreciate saying the pledge of allegiance to our country. Maybe I don't think I should have to say "Please" or "Thank you" to a person that I don't appreciate or hold in great contempt.

You...don't have to say Please or Thank You. You do you.

But will you think I'm a jerk when you do something nice - like a hold a door, offer me a cookie, pick my kid up from school for me, etc - and I choose not to say "thank you"?

You're really not good at analogies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No one is saying it is. If you read the OP, the suggestion was that NOT saying the pledge was an outrage. No one on this thread has argued that teachers/children/anyone should be prohibited from saying the pledge.

But, some people seem to take pride in not saying it--that is what is sad.

Think of all those young men landing on the beaches in Normandy..........

Random reference to WWII...ok?? But generally our armed forces fight to protect our freedoms, including free speech. It's sad that people don't understand that because it's such a fundamental part of the US history and identity.

The highlighted portion. DH spent 26 years in the military, got to deploy to some lovely garden spots, and the primary reason he served was to protect and defend the Constitution. While he was active duty he carried a pocket sized Constitution with him, as a reminder. If a teacher or student doesn't want to say the pledge, that is OK. Forcing them to say the pledge is wrong.

No one can force us to say the pledge, or sing the Happy Birthday song or even say "Here" during roll call. But unless you have a strong personal/religious reason for not doing so, why not participate?

Why do you need a "strong personal/religious reason"? And who is to judge what is "strong"?

the person who doesn't participate is the one that judges what is strong.

yeah, I have a strong objection to saying "Please" and "Thank you" - that is MY right!

So you equate a pledge of allegiance to common courtesy? Ooooooookay.

You don't appreciate saying the pledge of allegiance to our country. Maybe I don't think I should have to say "Please" or "Thank you" to a person that I don't appreciate or hold in great contempt.

You...don't have to say Please or Thank You. You do you.

But will you think I'm a jerk when you do something nice - like a hold a door, offer me a cookie, pick my kid up from school for me, etc - and I choose not to say "thank you"?

np - i know this is an anonymous forum but you are really making a fool of yourself. it is obvious your logic and reasoning ability is, simply, lacking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess that physicians are allowed to opt out of the Hippocratic oath, too?

Sure. But it's up to the med school to decide if they still graduate.

O.k. so there are possibly some pretty big consequences (not graduating!) for NOT saying the Hippocratic oath. Is that fair? Or do you think that physicians who aren't feeling it shouldn't have to say it?

Medical schools are specific institutions, often private, where people choose to go if they want to be a doctor and therefore choose to subject themselves to that school's specific criteria. I personally don't think physicians should have to say it, because I don't think the only thing keeping us from a fleet of Sweeny Todds is the fact that they chanted words in unison -- we also have laws and ethical requirements that doctors have to follow. But it doesn't matter what I think because I am not a medical school.

But I also don't think this works as an analogy. Again, medical schools house a group of people who chose to go there. The US is full of people who are born here. And even if saying the Hippocratic oath should be required, there's nothing about the pledge that makes it the only way to demonstrate patriotism. Further, demonstrating patriotism is not a prerequisite to being a citizen of the US. Which is one of the things that makes the US great, IMO.

When the emcee announces to the crowd "Let's all rise for our national anthem" and you choose to sit in your seat and play on your iPhone instead, you are going to stick out and you are going to come across in a negative way. In a situation like that, it would be respectful of you to maybe go to the bathroom or some other out of the way spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No one is saying it is. If you read the OP, the suggestion was that NOT saying the pledge was an outrage. No one on this thread has argued that teachers/children/anyone should be prohibited from saying the pledge.

But, some people seem to take pride in not saying it--that is what is sad.

Think of all those young men landing on the beaches in Normandy..........

Random reference to WWII...ok?? But generally our armed forces fight to protect our freedoms, including free speech. It's sad that people don't understand that because it's such a fundamental part of the US history and identity.

The highlighted portion. DH spent 26 years in the military, got to deploy to some lovely garden spots, and the primary reason he served was to protect and defend the Constitution. While he was active duty he carried a pocket sized Constitution with him, as a reminder. If a teacher or student doesn't want to say the pledge, that is OK. Forcing them to say the pledge is wrong.

No one can force us to say the pledge, or sing the Happy Birthday song or even say "Here" during roll call. But unless you have a strong personal/religious reason for not doing so, why not participate?

Why do you need a "strong personal/religious reason"? And who is to judge what is "strong"?

the person who doesn't participate is the one that judges what is strong.

yeah, I have a strong objection to saying "Please" and "Thank you" - that is MY right!

So you equate a pledge of allegiance to common courtesy? Ooooooookay.

You don't appreciate saying the pledge of allegiance to our country. Maybe I don't think I should have to say "Please" or "Thank you" to a person that I don't appreciate or hold in great contempt.

You...don't have to say Please or Thank You. You do you.

But will you think I'm a jerk when you do something nice - like a hold a door, offer me a cookie, pick my kid up from school for me, etc - and I choose not to say "thank you"?

np - i know this is an anonymous forum but you are really making a fool of yourself. it is obvious your logic and reasoning ability is, simply, lacking.

And connect the dots is challenging for you. Poor thing.

[Anonymous]

np - i know this is an anonymous forum but you are really making a fool of yourself. it is obvious your logic and reasoning ability is, simply, lacking.

And connect the dots is challenging for you. Poor thing.

?? OMG. That's your come back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess that physicians are allowed to opt out of the Hippocratic oath, too?

Sure. But it's up to the med school to decide if they still graduate.

O.k. so there are possibly some pretty big consequences (not graduating!) for NOT saying the Hippocratic oath. Is that fair? Or do you think that physicians who aren't feeling it shouldn't have to say it?

Medical schools are specific institutions, often private, where people choose to go if they want to be a doctor and therefore choose to subject themselves to that school's specific criteria. I personally don't think physicians should have to say it, because I don't think the only thing keeping us from a fleet of Sweeny Todds is the fact that they chanted words in unison -- we also have laws and ethical requirements that doctors have to follow. But it doesn't matter what I think because I am not a medical school.

But I also don't think this works as an analogy. Again, medical schools house a group of people who chose to go there. The US is full of people who are born here. And even if saying the Hippocratic oath should be required, there's nothing about the pledge that makes it the only way to demonstrate patriotism. Further, demonstrating patriotism is not a prerequisite to being a citizen of the US. Which is one of the things that makes the US great, IMO.

When the emcee announces to the crowd "Let's all rise for our national anthem" and you choose to sit in your seat and play on your iPhone instead, you are going to stick out and you are going to come across in a negative way. In a situation like that, it would be respectful of you to maybe go to the bathroom or some other out of the way spot.

I stand, just like I do for the pledge, although I don't put my hand over my heart. I stand out of respect for the performer and/or the other people around me. But even if I did sit in my seat and play on my iPhone (???), if I "come across in a negative way," then that's their problem, not mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

np - i know this is an anonymous forum but you are really making a fool of yourself. it is obvious your logic and reasoning ability is, simply, lacking.

And connect the dots is challenging for you. Poor thing.

?? OMG. That's your come back?

No. I'll throw a rotten egg with the words "dumb, stupid, idiot" written on it at you instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

np - i know this is an anonymous forum but you are really making a fool of yourself. it is obvious your logic and reasoning ability is, simply, lacking.

And connect the dots is challenging for you. Poor thing.

?? OMG. That's your come back?

No. I'll throw a rotten egg with the words "dumb, stupid, idiot" written on it at you instead.

LOL... I bet your tried REAL hard to come up with that line, didn't you? Now you sound not only idiotic but also juvenile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

np - i know this is an anonymous forum but you are really making a fool of yourself. it is obvious your logic and reasoning ability is, simply, lacking.

And connect the dots is challenging for you. Poor thing.

?? OMG. That's your come back?

No. I'll throw a rotten egg with the words "dumb, stupid, idiot" written on it at you instead.

LOL... I bet your tried REAL hard to come up with that line, didn't you? Now you sound not only idiotic but also juvenile.

LOl, IDIOT!!!! Now, do I sound smart?

[Anonymous]

This thread is starting to resemble a Trump rally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

np - i know this is an anonymous forum but you are really making a fool of yourself. it is obvious your logic and reasoning ability is, simply, lacking.

And connect the dots is challenging for you. Poor thing.

?? OMG. That's your come back?

No. I'll throw a rotten egg with the words "dumb, stupid, idiot" written on it at you instead.

LOL... I bet your tried REAL hard to come up with that line, didn't you? Now you sound not only idiotic but also juvenile.

LOl, IDIOT!!!! Now, do I sound smart?

Sadly, No. Not at all. Far from it.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, because having a sense of national pride is a problem. So annoying,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, because having a sense of national pride is a problem. So annoying,

Again and again you keep missing the point. The topic is not about national pride. It's about individual rights protected by the Constitution. But, at this point, you will never get that right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, because having a sense of national pride is a problem. So annoying,

See, you don't get to define how anyone else demonstrates "having a sense of national pride." Not if you understand the Constitution.

[Anonymous]

Education is important people. Stay in school. Go back to school if you can and learn.