Redistrict Montgomery County

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think MCPS would benefit if:

They broke up into two school districts. Gaithersburg and north in one and Rockville south in another. The county is just too big.

They need to get rid of every program that busses a child away from their home school. All kids go to the school closest to them.

Anyone within 1 mile of school does not get a bus, even if there is a busy road. Set up crossing guards just like cities do. The amount of money spent on busses in MCPS is obscene.

Get back to tracking kids in school instead of this reading and math group nonsense. So much time is wasted on this concept, so much time. Give the lower tracked kids, smaller ratios AND a full time aide in the class, for every grade K-5th. Pull those kids out of the bottom IMMEDIATELY. Stop leaving them in the dust during "busy" work times. It is too hard to bridge the gap in later grades. Bridge the f'ing gap in K. Nip it in the bud. Do you know what a class with 15 kids and 2 teachers could do? It would be amazing to see.

And on the flip side, tracking brings the gifted kids together and even with higher ratios, the teacher can accelerate and challenge these kids. They tend to have parents who can come in and volunteer if needed to. No need for HGC and bussing kids around.

The kids working at grade level would have current ratios, can take home additional acceleration sheets for optional homework and can benefit by direct teaching without the struggling kids receiving more help and the know-it alls with their hands raised 24/7, which leaves the on-grade level students currently ignored. That needs to change.



I know first hand what a class like this can do....it's amazing. My kid was in PEP and was told that he no longer qualified for an IEP going into K. The accommodation he needed was a space with less human beings in it. It was just the sheer number of bodies that overwhelmed him and would cause him to hide under a table or run into the halls for quiet space. A class of 1:28 would still be 29 people in the class room. 15:2 is only 17 people.

To get that ratio though, I had to go private. I can say for him, it's been worth it. In addition to the smaller number of people, the teachers know my child. They can see the melt down coming and head it off before it even hits. He gets differentiated instruction in math, reading, and writing which sounds a lot like the tracking you described above. There is no busy work. There is no homework because questions are answered in class and then the teachers can walk around and assist as necessary. Especially for K, with 2 teachers, there is always someone to teach and someone to assist. Assist may mean helping to open the juice box, decoding a word, tying a shoe, teaching multiple groups simultaneously, or the ability to walk a child out of the class that is being disruptive.


I agree. Fairfax county still has full time aides in their K classes. I think maybe grades 1 and 2 as well. My oldest was in MCPS and they had an aide for half the day. My youngest? She gets an aide for 20 of the 60 minutes dedicated to reading groups. It is just not enough. Tying shoes, disruptions, blowing a nose, dealing with separation anxiety etc... One teacher should not have that all day long.
Anonymous


I agree. Fairfax county still has full time aides in their K classes. I think maybe grades 1 and 2 as well. My oldest was in MCPS and they had an aide for half the day. My youngest? She gets an aide for 20 of the 60 minutes dedicated to reading groups. It is just not enough. Tying shoes, disruptions, blowing a nose, dealing with separation anxiety etc... One teacher should not have that all day long.


If a child is still dealing with separation anxiety (after the first few weeks), they should not be in that school. And, every school has said no laces if your child cannot tie their shoes.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I think MCPS would benefit if:

They broke up into two school districts. Gaithersburg and north in one and Rockville south in another. The county is just too big.

They need to get rid of every program that busses a child away from their home school. All kids go to the school closest to them.

Anyone within 1 mile of school does not get a bus, even if there is a busy road. Set up crossing guards just like cities do. The amount of money spent on busses in MCPS is obscene.

Get back to tracking kids in school instead of this reading and math group nonsense. So much time is wasted on this concept, so much time. Give the lower tracked kids, smaller ratios AND a full time aide in the class, for every grade K-5th. Pull those kids out of the bottom IMMEDIATELY. Stop leaving them in the dust during "busy" work times. It is too hard to bridge the gap in later grades. Bridge the f'ing gap in K. Nip it in the bud. Do you know what a class with 15 kids and 2 teachers could do? It would be amazing to see.

And on the flip side, tracking brings the gifted kids together and even with higher ratios, the teacher can accelerate and challenge these kids. They tend to have parents who can come in and volunteer if needed to. No need for HGC and bussing kids around.

The kids working at grade level would have current ratios, can take home additional acceleration sheets for optional homework and can benefit by direct teaching without the struggling kids receiving more help and the know-it alls with their hands raised 24/7, which leaves the on-grade level students currently ignored. That needs to change.



While I don't disagree it would never work as each zone would be fighting over money and resources. I agree with smaller class sizes but its funding and MCPS is not committed to that. As for supplementing, I would prefer to choose my own to do at home and stick with the foundation work rather than the non-sense homework we get sent.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:


I agree. Fairfax county still has full time aides in their K classes. I think maybe grades 1 and 2 as well. My oldest was in MCPS and they had an aide for half the day. My youngest? She gets an aide for 20 of the 60 minutes dedicated to reading groups. It is just not enough. Tying shoes, disruptions, blowing a nose, dealing with separation anxiety etc... One teacher should not have that all day long.


If a child is still dealing with separation anxiety (after the first few weeks), they should not be in that school. And, every school has said no laces if your child cannot tie their shoes.

Way to latch on to the examples and miss the bigger point, pp.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:


I agree. Fairfax county still has full time aides in their K classes. I think maybe grades 1 and 2 as well. My oldest was in MCPS and they had an aide for half the day. My youngest? She gets an aide for 20 of the 60 minutes dedicated to reading groups. It is just not enough. Tying shoes, disruptions, blowing a nose, dealing with separation anxiety etc... One teacher should not have that all day long.


If a child is still dealing with separation anxiety (after the first few weeks), they should not be in that school. And, every school has said no laces if your child cannot tie their shoes.

Yes the kids coming in not speaking a lick of English crying, should just be kicked out. Oh and if they can't tie a shoe, they get expelled. Do you ideas for disruptive kids too? Dangle them out the window?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It seems the disparity within a school is as large. Why would someone think busing will solve the achievement gap issue? And I don't think MCPS has enough White/Asian mass to create a diversity environment for Black/Latnio without being impacted. Black families with means will flea not just the white families at some point. It's not racism. Selfishness maybe.


....because there is a large body of research on this subject showing that desegregation is the only thing that solves the achievement gap issue.


Well, the US is running out of white kids to desegregate with. What happens then?
Anonymous
I am not sure I understand the argument regarding desegregation. It has always been my understanding that desegregation was implemented in part because of huge differentials in the amount of resources and the quality of education. Minority communities generally did not receive the same quality of education. That is not the situation in MCPS. The schools have the same funding, the same curriculum, the teachers have the same credentials etc. So the only reason to move kids all over the county in terrible traffic is to change the racial composition of schools? To what end?
I think SES is probably the most important factor in explaining student achievement.
The mean SAT score for students qualifying for FARMs was 1361. The FARMs rate for MCPS 2016 graduates is 24%
There are 10 high schools that produce noticeably better results for their FARMs students (10% higher than 1361 or 1429/2400)
Blair 1415 (30% of graduates are FARMs)
Clarksburg 1432 (28% FARMs)
WJ 1463 (7% FARMS)
RM 1491 (13.7%)
Poolesville 1891 (8% FARMs)
Quince Orchard 1486 (24% FARMs)
Watkin Mills 1458 (47% FARMs)
Whitman 1529 (not sure how many took the test but Whitman's FARMs rate is less than 5%)
Wootton 1598 (5%)

BCC which has been transporting kids into their high school from Silver Spring for years did poorly: 1274

I am not exactly sure what to make of these numbers but it does look like the 3 schools that performed the best (above 1500) were the ones that had FARMs rates below 10%. So, just moving kids to a higher performing school might not have the desired effect if the school ends up with a noticeably higher FARMs rate after the desegregation.
I think the county has been looking for solutions in all the wrong places:
*getting rid of tracking (teachers now have to juggle groups of students at different levels which ends up being unfair to all groups)
*getting rid of exams for high school courses or padding grades in the case of the infamous Algebra exam a couple of years ago
*lowering standards for admission to magnet programs

If we are serious about the achievement gap and want to do something meaningful why not try to ensure that the gap is closed by the end of kindergarten by funding universal preschool. I would support that and I would support funding for even smaller class sizes for schools with high FARMs rates (I know these are smaller already).
The school also has to do more community outreach to encourage parents to partner more effectively with the schools. Parents have to be encouraged to show up for BTS night, to check homework, to show up for parent teacher conferences, to check edline. Perhaps expanding the Parent Academy
workshop program and making sure there are plenty of Spanish workshops offered and expanding the George Thomas Learning Academy programs. These types of efforts will strengthen the communities in low performing school clusters and help students.



Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I would pull my kids from Westland/B-CC if bussing happened. Not because of racism (we're a multi-racial family) but because I don't want my kids on the bus for hrs a day and I don't want to have to worry about spending hrs in a car taking them to meet up with friends, or driving themselvesOr, we would move


I agree. There is a lot of research showing the unhealthy effect of early school start times on adolescents ( http://www.cdc.gov/features/school-start-times/ ). Of course, MCPS just went through this exercise last year., but they were only able to delay the high school start time by 10 minutes. This is an important reason for keeping kids at the local school, so kids don't have to make the early bus stop time. And of course, keeping kids at their local school (where they can walk or a take short bus ride) is also better for the environment and better to minimize traffic congestion.
Anonymous
The only thing that will help Montgomery County's diversity is if the zoning changes within each cluster. Apartments are what mainly contribute to the rise of children needing governmental assistance. If the apartments are spread out evenly in the county among each high school, the rest will fall into place.
Anonymous
Counties need to consider more than education. I would think the economic impact of redistricting would be a big consideration. Not just on housing, but on housing prices and thus on stores, etc.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:The only thing that will help Montgomery County's diversity is if the zoning changes within each cluster. Apartments are what mainly contribute to the rise of children needing governmental assistance. If the apartments are spread out evenly in the county among each high school, the rest will fall into place.


That can't and won't happen for hundreds of years
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:To me it would depend on what would be the goal of such an effort? If it is to alleviate over crowding, I am all for it. If it is for "diversity" than forget it. I dont want my kid bussed across the county to some gang school. FWIW we are in RM cluster, not W


Which school or schools are gang schools in your opinion?


The one we moved away from, Watkins Mill. I would also include Gaithersburg, Seneca Valley, SS schools.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I am not sure I understand the argument regarding desegregation. It has always been my understanding that desegregation was implemented in part because of huge differentials in the amount of resources and the quality of education. Minority communities generally did not receive the same quality of education. That is not the situation in MCPS. The schools have the same funding, the same curriculum, the teachers have the same credentials etc. So the only reason to move kids all over the county in terrible traffic is to change the racial composition of schools? To what end?
I think SES is probably the most important factor in explaining student achievement.
The mean SAT score for students qualifying for FARMs was 1361. The FARMs rate for MCPS 2016 graduates is 24%
There are 10 high schools that produce noticeably better results for their FARMs students (10% higher than 1361 or 1429/2400)
Blair 1415 (30% of graduates are FARMs)
Clarksburg 1432 (28% FARMs)
WJ 1463 (7% FARMS)
RM 1491 (13.7%)
Poolesville 1891 (8% FARMs)
Quince Orchard 1486 (24% FARMs)
Watkin Mills 1458 (47% FARMs)
Whitman 1529 (not sure how many took the test but Whitman's FARMs rate is less than 5%)
Wootton 1598 (5%)

BCC which has been transporting kids into their high school from Silver Spring for years did poorly: 1274

I am not exactly sure what to make of these numbers but it does look like the 3 schools that performed the best (above 1500) were the ones that had FARMs rates below 10%. So, just moving kids to a higher performing school might not have the desired effect if the school ends up with a noticeably higher FARMs rate after the desegregation.
I think the county has been looking for solutions in all the wrong places:
*getting rid of tracking (teachers now have to juggle groups of students at different levels which ends up being unfair to all groups)
*getting rid of exams for high school courses or padding grades in the case of the infamous Algebra exam a couple of years ago
*lowering standards for admission to magnet programs

If we are serious about the achievement gap and want to do something meaningful why not try to ensure that the gap is closed by the end of kindergarten by funding universal preschool. I would support that and I would support funding for even smaller class sizes for schools with high FARMs rates (I know these are smaller already).
The school also has to do more community outreach to encourage parents to partner more effectively with the schools. Parents have to be encouraged to show up for BTS night, to check homework, to show up for parent teacher conferences, to check edline. Perhaps expanding the Parent Academy
workshop program and making sure there are plenty of Spanish workshops offered and expanding the George Thomas Learning Academy programs. These types of efforts will strengthen the communities in low performing school clusters and help students.





The thought that community outreach to promote parent involvement is enough is a little Polyanna. It's hard to be an involved parent when you are working 2 low wage jobs to keep a roof over your head. MontCo doesn't seem to have a huge segment of true urban problems like rampant drug dealing/ addiction and accompanying violence, but it has a bunch of hard working low wage employees living on the edge. Telling them to check Johnny's homework or sign up for ABC mouse isn't going to work.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:To me it would depend on what would be the goal of such an effort? If it is to alleviate over crowding, I am all for it. If it is for "diversity" than forget it. I dont want my kid bussed across the county to some gang school. FWIW we are in RM cluster, not W


Which school or schools are gang schools in your opinion?


The one we moved away from, Watkins Mill. I would also include Gaithersburg, Seneca Valley, SS schools.


What a snob you are. Did you have a child who actually attended any of these schools? My children are students at one of the schools you listed. They are not afraid to go to school. There are not gang fights in the hallways. My relative's children recently graduated from Watkins Mill, where they were involved in a lot of activities and enjoyed their high school experience; their kids were not afraid to go to school, either.

There are plenty of students from good, caring families at the schools you listed, and teachers/administrators who care about their students. If you wanted to move away because you didn't want your kids to go there, fine, but don't put down a school you don't have any experience with.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:To me it would depend on what would be the goal of such an effort? If it is to alleviate over crowding, I am all for it. If it is for "diversity" than forget it. I dont want my kid bussed across the county to some gang school. FWIW we are in RM cluster, not W


Which school or schools are gang schools in your opinion?


The one we moved away from, Watkins Mill. I would also include Gaithersburg, Seneca Valley, SS schools.


What a snob you are. Did you have a child who actually attended any of these schools? My children are students at one of the schools you listed. They are not afraid to go to school. There are not gang fights in the hallways. My relative's children recently graduated from Watkins Mill, where they were involved in a lot of activities and enjoyed their high school experience; their kids were not afraid to go to school, either.

There are plenty of students from good, caring families at the schools you listed, and teachers/administrators who care about their students. If you wanted to move away because you didn't want your kids to go there, fine, but don't put down a school you don't have any experience with.



Its funny as RM was not a good or nice school when I was growing up. It was one to be avoided. If they truly think RM is better, good luck to them.
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