I am still undecided

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/watch-bill-maher-call-out-ken-bone-undecided-voters-w445122

All undecided voters should watch this.

That's a great idea. Watch a Rolling Stone video because they are not biased at all. lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, as for "most voters being clueless" -- I will refer you to my earlier post where both the LA Times and the WaPO debunk the myth of higher deportation under Obama.

If you believed that more people have been uprooted from their lives and sent home under the Obama administration than other administrations, you have an intellectual home among the "clueless" masses.

Obama is preventing more people from putting down roots here if they didn't arrive legally, is reducing the number of people trying to come here from Mexico, and is reducing the overall population of illegal immigrants. To me those are all important successes. If your goal is to uproot people who have been here contributing to our economy for many years, and who may have families here or have grown up here, then I would agree that has not been as high a priority for Obama.

You are shifting the goal post.

I am merely refuting the oft-repeated claim that deportations are up under Obama, see upthread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I am a unicorn.

Lifelong Dem. Big Obama supporter. Never liked HRC and voted against her in 08.

Can't stand the Donald. Hate his style, character, lack of self-control etc.

But I am 100 percent with him on illegal immigration. I have almost become a single issue voter.

No one IRL knows I feel this way.

Not sure I could actually vote for him when it comes down to it, but if I did, I would be voting for this one issue. I feel like voting for HRC is a vote for a borderless America.

But here's the problem. Why should I have to pay for private school because I don't want my kid in an ESL class in public school? California schools are full of illegals who don't speak English properly and slow down the class. Not okay.

I really don't comprehend people who say they are undecided. I am about as far left as you can get, and I would vote for Antonin Scalia over a Democrat who was as ignorant and arrogant as Donald Trump. Saying you are with him on any issue is nonsense because he does not have any coherent position on any issue.

He's exactly like the loud drunk, aggressive parent at the youth sports game who doesn't even know the rules of the game but is sure that he could do a better job than the refs and the coaches. At the debate, he scoffed at the military leadership and asked "why do we announce in advance that we are going to attack?" (an an answer to a question about Syria as he was discussing a city in Iraq). Does he honestly think US generals JUST NEVER THOUGHT OF A SURPRISE ATTACK? Like that's some new idea that he discovered? His contempt for our armed forces is mind boggling. Likewise with his announcement early on that he would kill and torture the families of Jihadists. He then had to walk that back because people who actually know stuff informed him that our soldiers won't commit war crimes just because he says so.

On immigration, you do know that:

1. More Mexicans (who are 52% if undocumented immigrants) are leaving the US than entering, right and have been for a couple of years now? So a wall would actually increase the number of undocumented immigrants?
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

2. Economist have repeatedly concluded that undocumented immigrants pay more in taxes (sales, payroll, etc.) than they use in services, resulting in a net plus to the US government? The U.S. Social Security Administration estimated that in 2013 undocumented immigrants—and their employers—paid [b]$13 billion in payroll taxes alone for benefits they will never get. Immigrants can receive schooling and emergency medical care, but they cannot get welfare or food stamps.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/


Sorry, but if you are a single issue Trump voter on immigration, then you are an idiot.

[Anonymous]

But here's the problem. Why should I have to pay for private school because I don't want my kid in an ESL class in public school? California schools are full of illegals who don't speak English properly and slow down the class. Not okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not with you on immigration:
1. Immigrants work at jobs most Americans don't want to do.
2. The immense majority are hard-working and grateful to be here.
3. We also have to do our share on the international stage - many small countries have taken in many more immigrants.

I'm not trying to change your mind, OP. But this is the way I see it. All I hope is that you won't vote for Trump, who is by any measure a disgusting windbag.

[b]

I'm fine with legal immigration, but why do we reward criminals for entering the us illegally?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, as for "most voters being clueless" -- I will refer you to my earlier post where both the LA Times and the WaPO debunk the myth of higher deportation under Obama.

If you believed that more people have been uprooted from their lives and sent home under the Obama administration than other administrations, you have an intellectual home among the "clueless" masses.

Obama is preventing more people from putting down roots here if they didn't arrive legally, is reducing the number of people trying to come here from Mexico, and is reducing the overall population of illegal immigrants. To me those are all important successes. If your goal is to uproot people who have been here contributing to our economy for many years, and who may have families here or have grown up here, then I would agree that has not been as high a priority for Obama.

You are shifting the goal post.

I am merely refuting the oft-repeated claim that deportations are up under Obama, see upthread.

How am I shifting the goal post? I've been arguing that Obama has been much more effective in addressing illegal immigration than you or others give him credit for. Part of that is formally deporting people who are found inside US territory so we have a record of prior attempts to immigrate. Pretending or implying that illegal immigration is at an all time high and Obama has been completely ineffective is just inaccurate, and makes me wonder if you are trolling.

[Anonymous]

The issue with minimum wage is that when minimum wage is raised, jobs are lost. It is especially tough on small businesses. And, some medium sized businesses already are struggling with new healthcare regulations. There are a few potential outcomes when minimum wage is increased. Businesses may send more jobs overseas, where they can pay less. That is a hit on our economy. Some businesses may decrease payroll through attrition. They may decrease benefits, offer less hours to employees, cut jobs while expecting more of retained employees, etc.. No matter what, something has to give. Liberals live in a dream world where there are unlimited funds.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the voters of California are okay with benefits being extended to individuals who entered the country illegally then that it how a democracy is supposed to work. They can have a ballot initiative to change this situation or elect different representatives to send to Sacramento. BTW, I am accepting at face value that this is true.

I am not going to respond to an unsupported opinion about the complex interplay between immigration and wages. I would ask however why the GOP is uniformly opposed to a living minimum wage if there's such concern.

OP here, maybe you haven't read the whole thread, but I am not a Republican. I am a registered Dem and I agree that the GOP has failed miserably on this issue. So have the Dems.

Please don't take my word on CAPI: http://www.cdss.ca.gov/cdssweb/Pg42.htm

More than half of all immigrants (legal) receive welfare, which suggests to me that business are not offering a living wage or benefits. We as a society are the one who end up paying for the benefits (through welfare) that business ought to be paying for.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/watch-bill-maher-call-out-ken-bone-undecided-voters-w445122

All undecided voters should watch this.

That's a great idea. Watch a Rolling Stone video because they are not biased at all. lol

This+1,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/watch-bill-maher-call-out-ken-bone-undecided-voters-w445122

All undecided voters should watch this.

That's a great idea. Watch a Rolling Stone video because they are not biased at all. lol

This+1,000

It's not a rolling stone video. It's a video from bill maher's show. But, whatever. If you are afraid to watch it, that's cool. No wonder you support President Pussygrabber.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And he points out the craziness of former Bernie supporters on Team Johnson who are too dumb to realize that Johnson is essentially the polar opposite of Bernie when it comes to policy.

Let's see. Gary Johnson is a strong supporter of abortion rights, civil liberties, and and a strong opponent of the drug war and foreign entanglements.

So Bernie Sanders must anti-abortion rights, anti-civil liberties, in favor of expanding the drug war, and in favor of more foreign entanglements.

There are major disagreements between Bernie Sanders and Gary Johnson in *economic* policy. But that is not what you said.

Um, Bernie himself has pointed out the craziness of supporting Dumbass Johnson given the differences of their platforms. But, whatever. Vote for the dude who hasn't heard of Aleppo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am in MD, so it is a moot point. And in some way that makes me feel better, b/c my vote really does not matter.

I was such an Obama supporter and one of the reasons I really liked him was because he was NOT HRC.

It may be hard for some to imagine that I would even consider Trump, but I don't really focus on what an a-hole he is, I just focus on the issues, actually one issue.

I agree with the PP that we have been abandoned by both the Dem and Rep parties.

OP - but Obama and Hillary have the same position on immigration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, as for "most voters being clueless" -- I will refer you to my earlier post where both the LA Times and the WaPO debunk the myth of higher deportation under Obama.

If you believed that more people have been uprooted from their lives and sent home under the Obama administration than other administrations, you have an intellectual home among the "clueless" masses.

Wowza.

I work in the policy arena, and I actually personally know an Obama appointee who was conflicted about accepting the position given his administration' immigration policies. Clue: he's not as liberal as he's been accused of being, nor is he as tough as folks on the right would like him to be. He's in the middle.

I'm not going to debate you. Your ideology is deep rooted. I understand that you are afraid and siding with a moronic narcissist with the morals of an alley cat out of your irrational fear. Good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/watch-bill-maher-call-out-ken-bone-undecided-voters-w445122

All undecided voters should watch this.

That's a great idea. Watch a Rolling Stone video because they are not biased at all. lol

This+1,000

It's not a rolling stone video. It's a video from bill maher's show. But, whatever. If you are afraid to watch it, that's cool. No wonder you support President Pussygrabber.

You are hilarious. You actually just defended the video by saying it is Bill Maher... as if that is any better. A Bill Maher video on the Rolling Stone website. Not biased at all. The most ironic thing is that you probably make fun of people for watching Fox News. You are not a hypocrite at all!

By the way, you are falsely assume that I support a certain candidate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/watch-bill-maher-call-out-ken-bone-undecided-voters-w445122

All undecided voters should watch this.

That's a great idea. Watch a Rolling Stone video because they are not biased at all. lol

This+1,000

It's not a rolling stone video. It's a video from bill maher's show. But, whatever. If you are afraid to watch it, that's cool. No wonder you support President Pussygrabber.

You are hilarious. You actually just defended the video by saying it is Bill Maher... as if that is any better. A Bill Maher video on the Rolling Stone website. Not biased at all. The most ironic thing is that you probably make fun of people for watching Fox News. You are not a hypocrite at all!

By the way, you are falsely assume that I support a certain candidate.

Typo: That's supposed to say, "You falsely assume..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing nice to say to you.

Actually there are a lot of nice things to say about me. I am a wonderful wife, mother, daughter, friend and employee. I am a good neighbor. I volunteer to make my community better. I obey all laws and I participate in civil discourse.

Sure, off the Internet you're probably great. But being undecided on this election? It's indefensible. Especially on an issue that you seem have fallen down the right wing disinformation hole on.

It is not indefensible. I too am undecided, not about which candidate to support. I can't imagine voting for either in good conscience. What I'm undecided about is whether to vote for my party, knowing as a whole they represent my stance on issues or to write in myself. Living in the DC, I'm lucky that I have that choice because no matter how I vote Hilary will win. I feel for people who are in toss up states, that have to decide between these two candidates, neither one who represents the best of what each party has to offer. Their vote does matter.