I am still undecided

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the voters of California are okay with benefits being extended to individuals who entered the country illegally then that it how a democracy is supposed to work. They can have a ballot initiative to change this situation or elect different representatives to send to Sacramento. BTW, I am accepting at face value that this is true.

I am not going to respond to an unsupported opinion about the complex interplay between immigration and wages. I would ask however why the GOP is uniformly opposed to a living minimum wage if there's such concern.

OP here, maybe you haven't read the whole thread, but I am not a Republican. I am a registered Dem and I agree that the GOP has failed miserably on this issue. So have the Dems.

Please don't take my word on CAPI: http://www.cdss.ca.gov/cdssweb/Pg42.htm

More than half of all immigrants (legal) receive welfare, which suggests to me that business are not offering a living wage or benefits. We as a society are the one who end up paying for the benefits (through welfare) that business ought to be paying for.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/

Your beef is with business as I suggested upthread, and you should most definitely not cast a vote for Trump.

[Anonymous]

Question for OP:

Tell us exactly what you don't like about Hillary's immigration policy.

If you say "open borders," then we will know that you simply haven't done your homework and you don't know what you are talking about...at which point we can try to educate you.

[Anonymous]

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/watch-bill-maher-call-out-ken-bone-undecided-voters-w445122

All undecided voters should watch this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question for OP:

Tell us exactly what you don't like about Hillary's immigration policy.

If you say "open borders," then we will know that you simply haven't done your homework and you don't know what you are talking about...at which point we can try to educate you.

Not the PP, but what is it with your assumption of superior knowledge that you will educate him or her? You remind me of this extreme-right Christian who asked me if I accepted Jesus as my savior, and when I told him I was Jewish, he said, "well, that's OK. I'll educate you."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/watch-bill-maher-call-out-ken-bone-undecided-voters-w445122

All undecided voters should watch this.

Oh, right....Rolling Stone and Bill Maher. We don't need to read more biased media crap. Bet you'd have something to say if I posted something from Breitbart!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/watch-bill-maher-call-out-ken-bone-undecided-voters-w445122

All undecided voters should watch this.

Oh, right....Rolling Stone and Bill Maher. We don't need to read more biased media crap. Bet you'd have something to say if I posted something from Breitbart!

Maher goes through the litany of crazy things Trump has actually said...including video...no spin if it's the truth, right?

And he points out the craziness of former Bernie supporters on Team Johnson who are too dumb to realize that Johnson is essentially the polar opposite of Bernie when it comes to policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for OP:

Tell us exactly what you don't like about Hillary's immigration policy.

If you say "open borders," then we will know that you simply haven't done your homework and you don't know what you are talking about...at which point we can try to educate you.

Not the PP, but what is it with your assumption of superior knowledge that you will educate him or her? You remind me of this extreme-right Christian who asked me if I accepted Jesus as my savior, and when I told him I was Jewish, he said, "well, that's OK. I'll educate you."

The point is that most people rely on soundbites instead of actually educating themselves.

The point is that most people who hate Hillary believe soundbites that aren't true.

"I hate Hillary because she wants to open the borders and let everyone in!"

That's simply not true. And if that's what the OP believes, then why not try to educate her?

Barely one-third of citizens can name the three branches of government...so I think it's safe to assume that most voters are clueless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for OP:

Tell us exactly what you don't like about Hillary's immigration policy.

If you say "open borders," then we will know that you simply haven't done your homework and you don't know what you are talking about...at which point we can try to educate you.

Not the PP, but what is it with your assumption of superior knowledge that you will educate him or her? You remind me of this extreme-right Christian who asked me if I accepted Jesus as my savior, and when I told him I was Jewish, he said, "well, that's OK. I'll educate you."

The point is that most people rely on soundbites instead of actually educating themselves.

The point is that most people who hate Hillary believe soundbites that aren't true.

"I hate Hillary because she wants to open the borders and let everyone in!"

That's simply not true. And if that's what the OP believes, then why not try to educate her?

Barely one-third of citizens can name the three branches of government...so I think it's safe to assume that most voters are clueless.

PP. I actually agree with that. Most voters are clueless. And the media isn't helping by seeking out (possibly false) Trump accusers and taking the focus off policy issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for OP:

Tell us exactly what you don't like about Hillary's immigration policy.

If you say "open borders," then we will know that you simply haven't done your homework and you don't know what you are talking about...at which point we can try to educate you.

Not the PP, but what is it with your assumption of superior knowledge that you will educate him or her? You remind me of this extreme-right Christian who asked me if I accepted Jesus as my savior, and when I told him I was Jewish, he said, "well, that's OK. I'll educate you."

The point is that most people rely on soundbites instead of actually educating themselves.

The point is that most people who hate Hillary believe soundbites that aren't true.

"I hate Hillary because she wants to open the borders and let everyone in!"

That's simply not true. And if that's what the OP believes, then why not try to educate her?

Barely one-third of citizens can name the three branches of government...so I think it's safe to assume that most voters are clueless.

PP. I actually agree with that. Most voters are clueless. And the media isn't helping by seeking out (possibly false) Trump accusers and taking the focus off policy issues.

Oy vey.

How can you possibly believe the Trump accusers aren't real after hearing audio of Trump saying vulgar things about women on live radio where he knew people were listening?!?! That's who he is. Period.

You've just confirmed how truly stupid Trump supporters are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And he points out the craziness of former Bernie supporters on Team Johnson who are too dumb to realize that Johnson is essentially the polar opposite of Bernie when it comes to policy.

Let's see. Gary Johnson is a strong supporter of abortion rights, civil liberties, and and a strong opponent of the drug war and foreign entanglements.

So Bernie Sanders must anti-abortion rights, anti-civil liberties, in favor of expanding the drug war, and in favor of more foreign entanglements.

There are major disagreements between Bernie Sanders and Gary Johnson in *economic* policy. But that is not what you said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Let's see. Gary Johnson is a strong supporter of abortion rights and civil liberties, and a strong opponent of the drug war and foreign entanglements.

So Bernie Sanders must be anti-abortion rights, anti-civil liberties, in favor of expanding the drug war, and in favor of more foreign entanglements.

There are major disagreements between Bernie Sanders and Gary Johnson in *economic* policy. But that is not what you said.

Sigh. Typo corrections

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for OP:

Tell us exactly what you don't like about Hillary's immigration policy.

If you say "open borders," then we will know that you simply haven't done your homework and you don't know what you are talking about...at which point we can try to educate you.

Not the PP, but what is it with your assumption of superior knowledge that you will educate him or her? You remind me of this extreme-right Christian who asked me if I accepted Jesus as my savior, and when I told him I was Jewish, he said, "well, that's OK. I'll educate you."

The point is that most people rely on soundbites instead of actually educating themselves.

The point is that most people who hate Hillary believe soundbites that aren't true.

"I hate Hillary because she wants to open the borders and let everyone in!"

That's simply not true. And if that's what the OP believes, then why not try to educate her?

Barely one-third of citizens can name the three branches of government...so I think it's safe to assume that most voters are clueless.

Your arrogance is astounding.

Because I, the OP, have a different viewpoint from you I must be uneducated, even clueless. I assure you I can name the three branches of govt. If you actually read through my posts you would know I have a cogent argument against the immigration policies put forth by the Democratic party (and GOP for that matter).

This has nothing to do with "hate" and everything to do with watching the immigration debate for the past 30 years. The ONE thing I like about Trump is that he actually does not represent either party on the immigration issue.

Perhaps you are the one who needs to be educated.

[Anonymous]

OP here, as for "most voters being clueless" -- I will refer you to my earlier post where both the LA Times and the WaPO debunk the myth of higher deportation under Obama.

If you believed that more people have been uprooted from their lives and sent home under the Obama administration than other administrations, you have an intellectual home among the "clueless" masses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, as for "most voters being clueless" -- I will refer you to my earlier post where both the LA Times and the WaPO debunk the myth of higher deportation under Obama.

If you believed that more people have been uprooted from their lives and sent home under the Obama administration than other administrations, you have an intellectual home among the "clueless" masses.

Obama is preventing more people from putting down roots here if they didn't arrive legally, is reducing the number of people trying to come here from Mexico, and is reducing the overall population of illegal immigrants. To me those are all important successes. If your goal is to uproot people who have been here contributing to our economy for many years, and who may have families here or have grown up here, then I would agree that has not been as high a priority for Obama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I am a unicorn.

Lifelong Dem. Big Obama supporter. Never liked HRC and voted against her in 08.

Can't stand the Donald. Hate his style, character, lack of self-control etc.

But I am 100 percent with him on illegal immigration. I have almost become a single issue voter.

No one IRL knows I feel this way.

Not sure I could actually vote for him when it comes down to it, but if I did, I would be voting for this one issue. I feel like voting for HRC is a vote for a borderless America.

[b]

I am the same, lifelong democrat but I live in a sanctuary city (aka illegal immigrant haven) in California and I'm DONE. Voting Trump.