I am still undecided

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



Um, Bernie himself has pointed out the craziness of supporting Dumbass Johnson given the differences of their platforms. But, whatever. Vote for the dude who hasn't heard of Aleppo.

Yeah that's all you need to know, isn't it. Johnson got tripped up by the pronunciation of Aleppo in an interview -- even though he had previously spoken about Aleppo. It like saying you would never vote for dumbass Obama because he once said there were 57 states.

Meanwhile, you are welcome to stick with your beloved 2 party system https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v7XXSt9XRM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am in MD, so it is a moot point. And in some way that makes me feel better, b/c my vote really does not matter.

I was such an Obama supporter and one of the reasons I really liked him was because he was NOT HRC.

It may be hard for some to imagine that I would even consider Trump, but I don't really focus on what an a-hole he is, I just focus on the issues, actually one issue.

I agree with the PP that we have been abandoned by both the Dem and Rep parties.

OP - but Obama and Hillary have the same position on immigration.

OP here. Yes, I agree. I did not/do not like Obama's position either. I wasn't always a single issue voter. Eight years ago when I voted for Obama, immigration was on my list but it was no means my deciding issue. Now it is. And I agree, that electing HRC would be simply a continuation of failed immigration policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, as for "most voters being clueless" -- I will refer you to my earlier post where both the LA Times and the WaPO debunk the myth of higher deportation under Obama.

If you believed that more people have been uprooted from their lives and sent home under the Obama administration than other administrations, you have an intellectual home among the "clueless" masses.

Wowza.

I work in the policy arena, and I actually personally know an Obama appointee who was conflicted about accepting the position given his administration' immigration policies. Clue: he's not as liberal as he's been accused of being, nor is he as tough as folks on the right would like him to be. He's in the middle.

I'm not going to debate you. Your ideology is deep rooted. I understand that you are afraid and siding with a moronic narcissist with the morals of an alley cat out of your irrational fear. Good luck with that.

I don't understand your post. Do you dispute the facts laid out in the WaPo and LA Times article?

I do not have a deep-rooted ideology at all. On the contrary, I feel I am in uncharted territory and am finding my way. I am still undecided.

Also, I would not describe myself as "afraid"-- but just to humor you, what exactly am I afraid of?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I am a unicorn.

Lifelong Dem. Big Obama supporter. Never liked HRC and voted against her in 08.

Can't stand the Donald. Hate his style, character, lack of self-control etc.

But I am 100 percent with him on illegal immigration. I have almost become a single issue voter.

No one IRL knows I feel this way.

Not sure I could actually vote for him when it comes down to it, but if I did, I would be voting for this one issue. I feel like voting for HRC is a vote for a borderless America.

Well, if it helps any, "illegal immigration" as it is currently framed is not actually a significant impact on jobs or resource drain. So it may help to know what the real problems ACTUALLY are wrt illegal immigration so you can make an informed electoral choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am in MD, so it is a moot point. And in some way that makes me feel better, b/c my vote really does not matter.

I was such an Obama supporter and one of the reasons I really liked him was because he was NOT HRC.

It may be hard for some to imagine that I would even consider Trump, but I don't really focus on what an a-hole he is, I just focus on the issues, actually one issue.

I agree with the PP that we have been abandoned by both the Dem and Rep parties.

OP - but Obama and Hillary have the same position on immigration.

OP here. Yes, I agree. I did not/do not like Obama's position either. I wasn't always a single issue voter. Eight years ago when I voted for Obama, immigration was on my list but it was no means my deciding issue. Now it is. And I agree, that electing HRC would be simply a continuation of failed immigration policy.

But why is it a failed policy given the decreasing numbers of illegal immigrants coming and staying in the US and why do you think Trump is more likely to adopt successful policies given you don't support his signature policy of a wall?

[Anonymous]

Anyone who claims to be undecided at this juncture is either lying or a true moron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am in MD, so it is a moot point. And in some way that makes me feel better, b/c my vote really does not matter.

I was such an Obama supporter and one of the reasons I really liked him was because he was NOT HRC.

It may be hard for some to imagine that I would even consider Trump, but I don't really focus on what an a-hole he is, I just focus on the issues, actually one issue.

I agree with the PP that we have been abandoned by both the Dem and Rep parties.

OP - but Obama and Hillary have the same position on immigration.

OP here. Yes, I agree. I did not/do not like Obama's position either. I wasn't always a single issue voter. Eight years ago when I voted for Obama, immigration was on my list but it was no means my deciding issue. Now it is. And I agree, that electing HRC would be simply a continuation of failed immigration policy.

If you are truly a single issue voter...and your single issue is immigration...and you support Trump's approach...then you might be a xenophobic racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who claims to be undecided at this juncture is either lying or a true moron.

+1

[Anonymous]

OP here. Signing off. Really tried to explain why I was undecided, b/c I know a lot of people can't imagine anyone with good character could have even the slightest hesitation to vote fro HRC.

Never used inflammatory language, explained I was not a Trump supporter, that I agree he is a nightmare, but I feel very strongly about illegal immigration/low-skilled immigration b/c of what it is doing to the low-skilled workforce in America, not b/c of the immigrants themselves, who I agree are hard-working.

In return I have been called:

Moron
Idiot
Clueless
Uneducated
Liar
Xenophobic racist
Dingbat

This is why I would never express my feelings IRL.

Our country suffers when its citizens can't explore (through) discourse different political positions and policies, and only engage in echo chambers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Signing off. Really tried to explain why I was undecided, b/c I know a lot of people can't imagine anyone with good character could have even the slightest hesitation to vote fro HRC.

Never used inflammatory language, explained I was not a Trump supporter, that I agree he is a nightmare, but I feel very strongly about illegal immigration/low-skilled immigration b/c of what it is doing to the low-skilled workforce in America, not b/c of the immigrants themselves, who I agree are hard-working.

In return I have been called:

Moron
Idiot
Clueless
Uneducated
Liar
Xenophobic racist
Dingbat

This is why I would never express my feelings IRL.

Our country suffers when its citizens can't explore (through) discourse different political positions and policies, and only engage in echo chambers.

The fact that Trump has been able to expose this? Priceless!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who claims to be undecided at this juncture is either lying or a true moron.

Just saw a segment on ABC where they interviewed undecided voters in PA. Wowza. Bottom line: true morons. There was a SAHM watching her kids at the park who said the Access Hollywood tape was funny. There was the youngish white dude in a flannel shirt who said he will likely vote for trump since he has similar views--because the dude says he isn't pro-choice and doesn't support marriage equality. There were a handful more, equally unimpressive morons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Signing off. Really tried to explain why I was undecided, b/c I know a lot of people can't imagine anyone with good character could have even the slightest hesitation to vote fro HRC.

Never used inflammatory language, explained I was not a Trump supporter, that I agree he is a nightmare, but I feel very strongly about illegal immigration/low-skilled immigration b/c of what it is doing to the low-skilled workforce in America, not b/c of the immigrants themselves, who I agree are hard-working.

In return I have been called:

Moron
Idiot
Clueless
Uneducated
Liar
Xenophobic racist
Dingbat

This is why I would never express my feelings IRL.

Our country suffers when its citizens can't explore (through) discourse different political positions and policies, and only engage in echo chambers.

OP,

People are fretting. But what they fail to understand is that Hillary is all talk. She is not committed to change, nor is she smart enough to keep her hidden prejudices hidden. She is no supporter of African Americans. How can anyone forgive her super predator comment? She is supporter of women's rights, a subject which has been exhausted on these threads. And she has now alienated Catholics, where 44% according to PEW, votes Dem.

But when you're THAT fearful of seeing the truth b/c Trump is far worse, you forgive some ugly and dangerous flaws in your own party's candidate.

Questioning the status quo does not make you a racist. It doesn't mean you hate other cultures and their beliefs. It does't mean you're uneducated or flawed in any way.

quite the opposite in fact

Questioning means you're educated and therefore able to see multiple perspectives.

I'm either not voting for president or going third party - b/c in MD it doesn't matter. I'd vote the same way in a swing state. And if that means my vote goes toward Trump, so be it. The people have spoken!

I voted for Bernie in the primaries, and he was horribly abused by the Clinton crew. So I didn't put either candidate up against each other.

I'm now Independent in a state that won't allow me to vote in the next primary election. And therein lies the problem. You can't grow a third party when both parties have monopolized the voting process.

[Anonymous]

meant to say she is NOT a support of women 

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Signing off. Really tried to explain why I was undecided, b/c I know a lot of people can't imagine anyone with good character could have even the slightest hesitation to vote fro HRC.

Never used inflammatory language, explained I was not a Trump supporter, that I agree he is a nightmare, but I feel very strongly about illegal immigration/low-skilled immigration b/c of what it is doing to the low-skilled workforce in America, not b/c of the immigrants themselves, who I agree are hard-working.

In return I have been called:

Moron
Idiot
Clueless
Uneducated
Liar
Xenophobic racist
Dingbat

This is why I would never express my feelings IRL.

Our country suffers when its citizens can't explore (through) discourse different political positions and policies, and only engage in echo chambers.

OP,

People are fretting. But what they fail to understand is that Hillary is all talk. She is not committed to change, nor is she smart enough to keep her hidden prejudices hidden. She is no supporter of African Americans. How can anyone forgive her super predator comment? She is supporter of women's rights, a subject which has been exhausted on these threads. And she has now alienated Catholics, where 44% according to PEW, votes Dem.

But when you're THAT fearful of seeing the truth b/c Trump is far worse, you forgive some ugly and dangerous flaws in your own party's candidate.

Questioning the status quo does not make you a racist. It doesn't mean you hate other cultures and their beliefs. It does't mean you're uneducated or flawed in any way.

quite the opposite in fact

Questioning means you're educated and therefore able to see multiple perspectives.

I'm either not voting for president or going third party - b/c in MD it doesn't matter. I'd vote the same way in a swing state. And if that means my vote goes toward Trump, so be it. The people have spoken!

I voted for Bernie in the primaries, and he was horribly abused by the Clinton crew. So I didn't put either candidate up against each other.

I'm now Independent in a state that won't allow me to vote in the next primary election. And therein lies the problem. You can't grow a third party when both parties have monopolized the voting process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who claims to be undecided at this juncture is either lying or a true moron.

Just saw a segment on ABC where they interviewed undecided voters in PA. Wowza. Bottom line: true morons. There was a SAHM watching her kids at the park who said the Access Hollywood tape was funny. There was the youngish white dude in a flannel shirt who said he will likely vote for trump since he has similar views--because the dude says he isn't pro-choice and doesn't support marriage equality. There were a handful more, equally unimpressive morons.

You do realize that people who see multiple perspectives DON'T put down others who perhaps haven't been exposed to other walks of life and who haven't had access to a quality education.

This is why the educated elite is the most hypocritical and the most frightening element in our society.

You're the true moron, PP.

nice irony in your post, btw, that you failed to recognize!

[Anonymous]

But you are wrong, OP.

You say you are concerned about immigration because of what it is doing to low-skilled Americans. Exactly what do you think is happening?

Undocumented workers cannot actually steal jobs from low-skilled Americans since they cannot work above the table. Rather, they typically do highly undesirable labor that Americans---even unskilled Americans---don't want to do.

Those with documentation similarly fill a labor gap by doing jobs that are labor-intensive at low pay. Again, those are jobs that Americans don't want to do.

The real issue is two-fold: education and wages. And guess which party doesn't want to increase wages? And guess which party has a history of cutting funding for education?

I'm sure you'll come back with some lame argument, but there's really no need. We realize your true motivation, and we realize there's nothing we can say to convince you otherwise.