Wash Post article on Montgomery County salaries

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sure. But the bottom line is that everyone knows what they are signing up for.

PS - Public defenders earn far more than legal aid lawyers (and they enjoy government health care and retirement benefits).

Do you work for pay? If so, then you knew what you were signing up for, too, so I hope that you never complain about your pay or working conditions.

Also, what is this "government health care" that public defenders are getting along with their munificent pay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sure. But the bottom line is that everyone knows what they are signing up for.

PS - Public defenders earn far more than legal aid lawyers (and they enjoy government health care and retirement benefits).

Do you work for pay? If so, then you knew what you were signing up for, too, so I hope that you never complain about your pay or working conditions.

Also, what is this "government health care" that public defenders are getting along with their munificent pay?

County employees---including public defenders---receive more generous healthcare benefits. Same with the folks who work in the court house, county agencies, rec centers, etc.

And no, I don't complain about my salary and benefits. I enjoy my public service job, and I accept that I earn less than my counterparts in more lucrative jobs.

I think the union and lobby distinguish teachers from other professions. I get it. It yields results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Mom who was a teacher told me not to go into teaching as she saw the writing on the wall with how little respect she was given by admin/parents and how people in general view teachers. She was right. I do work for the public schools but as a specialist and I feel that I am treated much better then teachers. This is unfortunate because I see first hand hand how much work goes into being a teacher and how passionate my teacher friends are about their jobs. But they are getting discouraged by curriculum changes and test scores. I would never tell my daughter to go into teaching and the DCUM crowd reminds me of that when I read threads like these. I shudder for our kids educational futures. Less people want to go into teaching as it is and many states have had to hire unqualified teachers to get warm bodies into the classrooms. It's only going to get worse as testing pressure and influx of ESOL students continue to rise.
The MCPS raise is a product of teachers giving up steps and colas years ago. In order to retain teachers you need to have a competitive salary. Working 20 years to make 90K in this area is not extravagant. My heart goes out to the social workers who have it much worse in terms of caseload, benefits and pay.

90K for 9months is equivalent to 130K/yr or even 140K range for those without any pension, other good benefit, and flexibility. With the new healthcare law, in the private sector, thousands more need to be sent to basic coverage.

False. There is no flex time or flex hours. There is no telework. There is no paid vacation. The equivalency you suggest is not correct.

How about these?
- No snow day off.
- Night shift.
- Life insurance limit at 10K.
...

These are not blue collar jobs.

Typically, federal employees get the best deal. Other government employees are pretty much only 2nd to federal employees. Private sector employees are far behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's only the ones that were eligible for the step increase during the year it was missed. Also, I don't think it's 2 makeup step increases -- the other step increase is the normal step increase that folks would and should get during this fiscal year. Basically, the fact that they missed step increases for a number of years (not sure how many) means that a teacher with X years on the job is making the same as a new hire. Since we all know that teacher experience is really key -- and those first few years are like dog years -- it's really not fair that this isn't reflected in their pay. The more senior teachers probably aren't even eligible for the step increase. I just checked the salary scales online, and after 18 years, they aren't even eligible for regular step increases. To get that $90K that a PP mentioned, you have to have a masters and have been working more than 16 years for the County. The entry level folks are only making $48K -- and by "entry level" I mean all the folks that were hired since they stopped giving the annual step increases.

There is a ton of money wasted in this County. I pay a ton of taxes, but the one thing I will not complain about paying taxes for is to pay a better than competitive wage to our teachers, police and firefighters. I want the best of the best for those three. (And if you think we're not already losing good teacher candidates to FCPS--as well as to counties where the cost of living is less, like AA and HC, you're wrong.)

One issue that I have with the pay structure at MCPS is how the pay and raises is not performance based. It's already been mentioned in this thread about how it's difficult to measure a teacher's performance.

However I don't think that it can just be generally applied that senior teachers or those that have more experience are more deserving than newer employees.

The culture at MCPS is similar to some other government organizations where there are those that just slide through doing the bare minimum. When talking to some of these supervisors, they mentioned how they'd love to trim the fat that are the noncontributors but the culture and union regulations makes it very hard to do so.

The film/story Freedom Writers kind of reflect this even though it has the Hollywood spin and romanticizes it a little bit. I'm sure a lot of teachers are great at what they do, but it's the one that just manages to slide by that causes the issues with the system. Not only do they get rewarded for doing a bare minimum, as a previous poster commented the culture promotes mediocrity, it also discourages some of the ones that do put in the effort but don't get rewarded any differently for the extra effort they put in. The general point though is that just because someone has been a teacher for a while, doesn't necessarily make them a good teacher.

In some workplaces the salary range is pretty much fixed and you only get a raise if you went above and beyond in the previous year. Otherwise if you basically just did the same thing year in and year out, you could pretty much just expect a COLA adjustment. Then when you hit the ceiling of the salary range of your position, you either accepted the fact and settle in the position or you continue your career growth by pursuing a position that allows you advance your salary and skillsets.

With the way MCPS works, everyone gets the step increase regardless of performance and the top level of the salary range will always increase due to the COLA adjustments. Several years ago the COLA increases were 4% alone some years and employees got the step increase on top of that. Which as mentioned on this thread 4.5% is often considered generous by itself.

Again there is the issue on how to measure teacher's performance but the current system involves a lot of waste and bloated budget. Then on top of that there's that maintenance of effort rule where school systems have to maintain the same budget or higher as previous years, which makes it very hard to cut costs where it's needed to make things more efficient at MCPS.

[Anonymous]

I couldn't find a copy of the old contract but this version of the contract shows what kind of COLAs were negotiated around page 52 of the pdf (page 46 of the actual document):
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/associationrelations/teachers/MCEA_Contract.pdf

"Effective July 1, 2009, the professional salary schedule shall be increased by 5.3 percent on all salary lanes (The COLA provision in this paragraph has not been implemented. It is subject to reopened negotiations in accordance with Article 31 of this Agreement.)"

I can't remember if this was a year where they had the pay freeze in effect, it probably was this year and the COLA and step increases didn't take place.

But these were the types of rates negotiated that go along with step and longevity increases.

[Anonymous]

They need to take that 8 percent and put Para educators back into the classrooms. The lower achieving kids take the majority of the teachers time while the rest.of the kids just bide 5heir time.

Why would you pay teachers more? I don't see any great work coming home with me kids. Show some kind of product and you'll get more support.

[Anonymous]

If they simply reallocated the funds from the admins and central office peeps to the teachers and paraeducators, it would all be a-okay. Give the money to the people who actually do the work.

[Anonymous]

It is weird to me that people are so bitter about teacher salaries when the highest paid county employees (factoring in OT), aside from the council, administrators and managers, are police. What is more puzzling is that qualifications for becoming a police officer only require either an AA degree or prior active duty military that latter only requiring a HS diploma. Plus police have ridiculous pensions.

However, since by and large MCPD seem to be an extremely professional police department, very much unlike their counterparts in Fairfax County and DC, I personally don't mind it too much. But at least people can direct their ire at the right places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is weird to me that people are so bitter about teacher salaries when the highest paid county employees (factoring in OT), aside from the council, administrators and managers, are police. What is more puzzling is that qualifications for becoming a police officer only require either an AA degree or prior active duty military that latter only requiring a HS diploma. Plus police have ridiculous pensions.

However, since by and large MCPD seem to be an extremely professional police department, very much unlike their counterparts in Fairfax County and DC, I personally don't mind it too much. But at least people can direct their ire at the right places.

I have not problem with a police officer making more than a teacher...considering this person is actually risking his or her life. Hardly a cushy job like teaching.

[Anonymous]

If you want to complain about government salaries, go read the recent Baltimore sun article about state government salaries. The four highest paid folks: past UMCP president, former UMCP football coach, and the two current basketball coaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want to complain about government salaries, go read the recent Baltimore sun article about state government salaries. The four highest paid folks: past UMCP president, former UMCP football coach, and the two current basketball coaches.

That's actually not too comparable. I can't remember where but there was an article not too long ago about the salary of big time salary coaches and how it kind of took away the importance of education at colleges. Where by giving them the big salaries it shows that universities value athletics more and the other side of the point being that these big time sports bring in a lot of the revenue for schools.

But if you want to look at actual Maryland state government jobs, the equivalent jobs at Montgomery County Public Schools are way higher than their counterparts with the state government, county government and other school systems.

As for police being overpaid, I won't go too much into there. But based on this thread people make it sound like a given that people should be able to hit $100k in salary. I'm not sure how it is now but I don't think police officers can make more than $75k and that's with overtime. But that's based off of another jurisdiction and was more than ten years ago. And won't even go into the lifestyle of police officers and what they have to deal with, some of which a previous poster already touched upon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to complain about government salaries, go read the recent Baltimore sun article about state government salaries. The four highest paid folks: past UMCP president, former UMCP football coach, and the two current basketball coaches.

That's actually not too comparable. I can't remember where but there was an article not too long ago about the salary of big time salary coaches and how it kind of took away the importance of education at colleges. Where by giving them the big salaries it shows that universities value athletics more and the other side of the point being that these big time sports bring in a lot of the revenue for schools.

But if you want to look at actual Maryland state government jobs, the equivalent jobs at Montgomery County Public Schools are way higher than their counterparts with the state government, county government and other school systems.

As for police being overpaid, I won't go too much into there. But based on this thread people make it sound like a given that people should be able to hit $100k in salary. I'm not sure how it is now but I don't think police officers can make more than $75k and that's with overtime. But that's based off of another jurisdiction and was more than ten years ago. And won't even go into the lifestyle of police officers and what they have to deal with, some of which a previous poster already touched upon.

Most cops make way more than 100k

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to complain about government salaries, go read the recent Baltimore sun article about state government salaries. The four highest paid folks: past UMCP president, former UMCP football coach, and the two current basketball coaches.

That's actually not too comparable. I can't remember where but there was an article not too long ago about the salary of big time salary coaches and how it kind of took away the importance of education at colleges. Where by giving them the big salaries it shows that universities value athletics more and the other side of the point being that these big time sports bring in a lot of the revenue for schools.

But if you want to look at actual Maryland state government jobs, the equivalent jobs at Montgomery County Public Schools are way higher than their counterparts with the state government, county government and other school systems.

As for police being overpaid, I won't go too much into there. But based on this thread people make it sound like a given that people should be able to hit $100k in salary. I'm not sure how it is now but I don't think police officers can make more than $75k and that's with overtime. But that's based off of another jurisdiction and was more than ten years ago. And won't even go into the lifestyle of police officers and what they have to deal with, some of which a previous poster already touched upon.

Most cops make way more than 100k

It is amazing how clueless people are about this. I have nothing against police at all, but experienced cops have salaries and pensions that are orders of magnitude higher than typical civil servants, especially if you consider the minimum qualifications. The biggest thing that pads these salaries is OT and they can pull lots of OT doing pretty basic things, like spending a full day sitting at the courthouse waiting to give testimony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to complain about government salaries, go read the recent Baltimore sun article about state government salaries. The four highest paid folks: past UMCP president, former UMCP football coach, and the two current basketball coaches.

That's actually not too comparable. I can't remember where but there was an article not too long ago about the salary of big time salary coaches and how it kind of took away the importance of education at colleges. Where by giving them the big salaries it shows that universities value athletics more and the other side of the point being that these big time sports bring in a lot of the revenue for schools.

But if you want to look at actual Maryland state government jobs, the equivalent jobs at Montgomery County Public Schools are way higher than their counterparts with the state government, county government and other school systems.

As for police being overpaid, I won't go too much into there. But based on this thread people make it sound like a given that people should be able to hit $100k in salary. I'm not sure how it is now but I don't think police officers can make more than $75k and that's with overtime. But that's based off of another jurisdiction and was more than ten years ago. And won't even go into the lifestyle of police officers and what they have to deal with, some of which a previous poster already touched upon.

Most cops make way more than 100k

It is amazing how clueless people are about this. I have nothing against police at all, but experienced cops have salaries and pensions that are orders of magnitude higher than typical civil servants, especially if you consider the minimum qualifications. The biggest thing that pads these salaries is OT and they can pull lots of OT doing pretty basic things, like spending a full day sitting at the courthouse waiting to give testimony.

your comment makes zero sense... is a police officer supposed to not get paid when he is required to appear in court?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to complain about government salaries, go read the recent Baltimore sun article about state government salaries. The four highest paid folks: past UMCP president, former UMCP football coach, and the two current basketball coaches.

That's actually not too comparable. I can't remember where but there was an article not too long ago about the salary of big time salary coaches and how it kind of took away the importance of education at colleges. Where by giving them the big salaries it shows that universities value athletics more and the other side of the point being that these big time sports bring in a lot of the revenue for schools.

But if you want to look at actual Maryland state government jobs, the equivalent jobs at Montgomery County Public Schools are way higher than their counterparts with the state government, county government and other school systems.

As for police being overpaid, I won't go too much into there. But based on this thread people make it sound like a given that people should be able to hit $100k in salary. I'm not sure how it is now but I don't think police officers can make more than $75k and that's with overtime. But that's based off of another jurisdiction and was more than ten years ago. And won't even go into the lifestyle of police officers and what they have to deal with, some of which a previous poster already touched upon.

Most cops make way more than 100k

It is amazing how clueless people are about this. I have nothing against police at all, but experienced cops have salaries and pensions that are orders of magnitude higher than typical civil servants, especially if you consider the minimum qualifications. The biggest thing that pads these salaries is OT and they can pull lots of OT doing pretty basic things, like spending a full day sitting at the courthouse waiting to give testimony.

your comment makes zero sense... is a police officer supposed to not get paid when he is required to appear in court?

No, they should get paid to appear in court because it is a part of their job. However, since it is a part of their core job functions I don't believe they deserve OT for it. Do you believe that people performing core job functions should receive OT?