Ben Carson and the Holocaust

[Anonymous]

The bottom line is this:

Dr. Ben Carson, retired neurosurgeon and alleged educated person, lacks the basic commonsense required of the POTUS as evidenced by the sheer stupidity of saying anything that could be construed as criticizing victims of the holocaust. Seriously, people...how dumb and unpolitic is this tool? He reminds me of the guy in IT who thinks he's the smartest person in every room and that everyone else is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would we arm people who scream death to America and who attacked us multiple times on our own land?

If you are referring to Muslims, why do you believe that all Muslims scream "death to America" and have attacked us multiple times? Isn't that the sort of stereotyping that contributed to the Holocaust? Do you support a "Muslim exception" to the 2nd Amendment?

If they are American citizens, nope. If they are not, yep.

Oh so the Bill of Rights is only for citizens? Non-citizens don't get freedom of speech or due process? Sorry, that's un-American. We don't pick and choose who gets protection based on citizenship. I'm sure there's a nice Gulf oil monarchy where you can find a government that supports your point of view. Oh wait, you won't be a citizen there so you won't get full protection under the law. Sucks to be you I guess.

You don't hand weapons to people from a foreign country who's mantra is to kill Americans. You should not even let them in the door, frankly.

If your neighbor threatened to kill you, would you arm him? No. Because that would be stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it's everyone's position that our government could get away with an internal holocaust and not meet with an armed resistance?

My position is knowing the amount of weaponry in the hands of the American people, it definitely would give a tyrant pause.

That's as it should be.

Armed resistance is useless without social organization, networking, and control of institutions. In fact, they matter far more than weapons. Helen Fein in Accounting for Genocide argued that it was the nations with independent institutions that did not support the Holocaust that were less likely to cooperate with the Nazi efforts to send Jews to the camp.

+1,000,000

Nowhere in history did a couple dozen untrained, obese, right wing ridgerunners with guns ever prevent an invasion or prevent governmental tyranny or oppression.

If anything, libertarianism and your desire to be independent, armed loners is far more likely to be your undoing if anything bad were ever to come to be.

Any yet, it worked for Bundy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at all the 'heavily legislate or take all the guns before we all die' messages on this forum, and you can see plainly why it was critical for the Nazis to make sure Jews weren't armed in quantity.

It took the Nazis 6 weeks to finally kill the last Jew in Warsaw - resisting with the few weapons they did have, Imagine if they had not convinced Jews to disarm?

The entire country of Poland was blitzed and conquered in only 36 days. If you think that somehow the timeline of the warsaw uprising indicated that the concentrated effort of the German Army was being repelled, you are a fool. The actual fighting was seven days, April 22-29. Not six weeks.

Lesson to you: don't try to use history to make a point unless you understand your history.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005188

"Between July 22 and September 12, 1942, the German authorities deported or murdered around 300,000 Jews in the Warsaw ghetto.

How long? Hmmm, July 22 to Aug 22 is about a month. Two more weeks from the 22nd to the 12th. I do believe that's about 6 weeks....

Please point us to a definitive source which does not corroborate the dates of the actual organized uprising: April 22-29. There were a few individuals or small groups which continued guerilla attacks of sorts but the uprising failed and the deportations were unabated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it's everyone's position that our government could get away with an internal holocaust and not meet with an armed resistance?

My position is knowing the amount of weaponry in the hands of the American people, it definitely would give a tyrant pause.

That's as it should be.

Armed resistance is useless without social organization, networking, and control of institutions. In fact, they matter far more than weapons. Helen Fein in Accounting for Genocide argued that it was the nations with independent institutions that did not support the Holocaust that were less likely to cooperate with the Nazi efforts to send Jews to the camp.

+1,000,000

Nowhere in history did a couple dozen untrained, obese, right wing ridgerunners with guns ever prevent an invasion or prevent governmental tyranny or oppression.

If anything, libertarianism and your desire to be independent, armed loners is far more likely to be your undoing if anything bad were ever to come to be.

Any yet, it worked for Bundy

LOL! Are you sure? Many of his supporters and two of his sons (Ryan and Cliven Lance) have since been facing various legal charges, arrests, guilty pleas et cetera for things like making terroristic threats (a felony under Nevada law as well as in many other jurisdictions - and oops, that means you can no longer legally own a gun in most jurisdictions as well) and various other lawless behaviors on their part, and meanwhile, ole Cliven's original cattle trespassing case is still working its way through the court system where he will end up having a snowball's chance in hell of winning, and which ends up costing him more and more money every day.

See, where you are confused is you are thinking wild west. The government doesn't typically operate wild west style - nor do they have to. That's what they have lawyers for. If your fictionalized fantasy version of the world, where the government wanted an armed showdown were actually true, the government would have sent a different set of resources in, as opposed to sending a half dozen lightly armed (and some unarmed) BLM guys and a couple car loads of local yokel sherrifs (which is all there was at the big standoff).

Instead, the government is working the long game, using the legal system, which at this point has its teeth sunk deep into Bundy like a bulldog, causing him pain every single time he so much as wiggles, and at this point, the more Bundy tries to fight, the weaker he will get, until finally he drops from exhaustion. At this point the best thing that could happen to him is he keels over from a heart attack before getting his court date.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at all the 'heavily legislate or take all the guns before we all die' messages on this forum, and you can see plainly why it was critical for the Nazis to make sure Jews weren't armed in quantity.

It took the Nazis 6 weeks to finally kill the last Jew in Warsaw - resisting with the few weapons they did have, Imagine if they had not convinced Jews to disarm?

The entire country of Poland was blitzed and conquered in only 36 days. If you think that somehow the timeline of the warsaw uprising indicated that the concentrated effort of the German Army was being repelled, you are a fool. The actual fighting was seven days, April 22-29. Not six weeks.

Lesson to you: don't try to use history to make a point unless you understand your history.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005188

"Between July 22 and September 12, 1942, the German authorities deported or murdered around 300,000 Jews in the Warsaw ghetto.

How long? Hmmm, July 22 to Aug 22 is about a month. Two more weeks from the 22nd to the 12th. I do believe that's about 6 weeks....

Please point us to a definitive source which does not corroborate the dates of the actual organized uprising: April 22-29. There were a few individuals or small groups which continued guerilla attacks of sorts but the uprising failed and the deportations were unabated.

Um, I referenced the Holocaust museum and said the Warsaw uprising and until the last Jew was killed. If you choose not to believe the Holocaust Museum, that's on you.

And yes, six MILLION Jews were killed, because they did not have a way to defend themselves. Seems to be similar re: Christians and ISIS. A little lesson ... when only the bad guys have the weapons, good people die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it's everyone's position that our government could get away with an internal holocaust and not meet with an armed resistance?

My position is knowing the amount of weaponry in the hands of the American people, it definitely would give a tyrant pause.

That's as it should be.

Armed resistance is useless without social organization, networking, and control of institutions. In fact, they matter far more than weapons. Helen Fein in Accounting for Genocide argued that it was the nations with independent institutions that did not support the Holocaust that were less likely to cooperate with the Nazi efforts to send Jews to the camp.

+1,000,000

Nowhere in history did a couple dozen untrained, obese, right wing ridgerunners with guns ever prevent an invasion or prevent governmental tyranny or oppression.

If anything, libertarianism and your desire to be independent, armed loners is far more likely to be your undoing if anything bad were ever to come to be.

Any yet, it worked for Bundy

LOL! Are you sure? Many of his supporters and two of his sons (Ryan and Cliven Lance) have since been facing various legal charges, arrests, guilty pleas et cetera for things like making terroristic threats (a felony under Nevada law as well as in many other jurisdictions - and oops, that means you can no longer legally own a gun in most jurisdictions as well) and various other lawless behaviors on their part, and meanwhile, ole Cliven's original cattle trespassing case is still working its way through the court system where he will end up having a snowball's chance in hell of winning, and which ends up costing him more and more money every day.

See, where you are confused is you are thinking wild west. The government doesn't typically operate wild west style - nor do they have to. That's what they have lawyers for. If your fictionalized fantasy version of the world, where the government wanted an armed showdown were actually true, the government would have sent a different set of resources in, as opposed to sending a half dozen lightly armed (and some unarmed) BLM guys and a couple car loads of local yokel sherrifs (which is all there was at the big standoff).

Instead, the government is working the long game, using the legal system, which at this point has its teeth sunk deep into Bundy like a bulldog, causing him pain every single time he so much as wiggles, and at this point, the more Bundy tries to fight, the weaker he will get, until finally he drops from exhaustion. At this point the best thing that could happen to him is he keels over from a heart attack before getting his court date.

I don't doubt the government is coming down on Bundy hard.

The funny thing? Is you don't even see the problem with the bolded, never mind the rest of your statement. Imagine this is you and the IRS. Sound like fun to you? And before you go all "I pay my taxes", consider how many times the IRS has been wrong and people have had their bank accounts locked, checks garnished, livelihoods destroyed, etc. If that's the government you want, you are a lost soul.

[Anonymous]

Gee, if the IRS waited through eight court judgments and 16 years before trying to take possession of my car or house, I would say they were wimps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it's everyone's position that our government could get away with an internal holocaust and not meet with an armed resistance?

My position is knowing the amount of weaponry in the hands of the American people, it definitely would give a tyrant pause.

That's as it should be.

Armed resistance is useless without social organization, networking, and control of institutions. In fact, they matter far more than weapons. Helen Fein in Accounting for Genocide argued that it was the nations with independent institutions that did not support the Holocaust that were less likely to cooperate with the Nazi efforts to send Jews to the camp.

+1,000,000

Nowhere in history did a couple dozen untrained, obese, right wing ridgerunners with guns ever prevent an invasion or prevent governmental tyranny or oppression.

If anything, libertarianism and your desire to be independent, armed loners is far more likely to be your undoing if anything bad were ever to come to be.

Any yet, it worked for Bundy

LOL! Are you sure? Many of his supporters and two of his sons (Ryan and Cliven Lance) have since been facing various legal charges, arrests, guilty pleas et cetera for things like making terroristic threats (a felony under Nevada law as well as in many other jurisdictions - and oops, that means you can no longer legally own a gun in most jurisdictions as well) and various other lawless behaviors on their part, and meanwhile, ole Cliven's original cattle trespassing case is still working its way through the court system where he will end up having a snowball's chance in hell of winning, and which ends up costing him more and more money every day.

See, where you are confused is you are thinking wild west. The government doesn't typically operate wild west style - nor do they have to. That's what they have lawyers for. If your fictionalized fantasy version of the world, where the government wanted an armed showdown were actually true, the government would have sent a different set of resources in, as opposed to sending a half dozen lightly armed (and some unarmed) BLM guys and a couple car loads of local yokel sherrifs (which is all there was at the big standoff).

Instead, the government is working the long game, using the legal system, which at this point has its teeth sunk deep into Bundy like a bulldog, causing him pain every single time he so much as wiggles, and at this point, the more Bundy tries to fight, the weaker he will get, until finally he drops from exhaustion. At this point the best thing that could happen to him is he keels over from a heart attack before getting his court date.

I don't doubt the government is coming down on Bundy hard.

The funny thing? Is you don't even see the problem with the bolded, never mind the rest of your statement. Imagine this is you and the IRS. Sound like fun to you? And before you go all "I pay my taxes", consider how many times the IRS has been wrong and people have had their bank accounts locked, checks garnished, livelihoods destroyed, etc. If that's the government you want, you are a lost soul.

Spare us the bullshit. It's crystal clear (and the courts have already agreed) that Cliven Bundy has been screwing American taxpayers for two decades, ever since he decided to stop paying grazing fees and ever since he then started trespassing on land he didn't own to graze his cattle for profit at the expense of others. You want to talk about "livelihood" how would you like it if I routinely came to your store and shoplifted from it and then resold the goods on Ebay for my own financial benefit? That's basically what Bundy has been doing for 20 years, by allowing his cattle to graze for free on land he doesn't own, whereas other ranchers pay their fees without issue. And it's not even as though grazing fees are even that exorbitant, it's a mere $1.69 per month per cow and calf - far far cheaper than owning and maintaining your own land and paying the county property taxes on it, far far cheaper than leasing land from a private landowner neighbor and for damn sure far cheaper than buying feed. It's a hell of a good deal, yet Bundy wants to screw taxpayers even out of that paltry amount - and has been doing it for over 20 years. Enough is enough.

As for his bullshit claim that "he was there first" - I suggest you read up on history - the reason he's on that land at all goes back to the Mexican-American War, where the Mexico-Texas conflict escalated to the point where the US Army marched all the way to Mexico City and captured it, forcing the Mexican government to surrender and capitulate, and part of the terms of surrender included giving up lands which included what is now Nevada in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. At that point, all of the former Mexican Government owned lands that fell under terms of surrender, with the exception of lands that had already been specifically privately deeded became US land in the ownership of the Federal Government - the US federal government has owned the land that Bundy is grazing for long before anyone named Bundy even lived in Nevada, and those federal lands are under the purview of the BLM. Nowhere ever in history did anyone in Bundy's family ever hold any legal claim to the actual land itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it's everyone's position that our government could get away with an internal holocaust and not meet with an armed resistance?

Um, yeah. They'll just send a couple of AC-130s and incinerate you and your families along with your weapons. Presumably all your ammo will increase the magnitude of the conflagration by, like, 0.1%. But have fun striking menacing poses in front of the shower mirror, Rambo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it's everyone's position that our government could get away with an internal holocaust and not meet with an armed resistance?

My position is knowing the amount of weaponry in the hands of the American people, it definitely would give a tyrant pause.

That's as it should be.

Armed resistance is useless without social organization, networking, and control of institutions. In fact, they matter far more than weapons. Helen Fein in Accounting for Genocide argued that it was the nations with independent institutions that did not support the Holocaust that were less likely to cooperate with the Nazi efforts to send Jews to the camp.

+1,000,000

Nowhere in history did a couple dozen untrained, obese, right wing ridgerunners with guns ever prevent an invasion or prevent governmental tyranny or oppression.

If anything, libertarianism and your desire to be independent, armed loners is far more likely to be your undoing if anything bad were ever to come to be.

Any yet, it worked for Bundy

LOL! Are you sure? Many of his supporters and two of his sons (Ryan and Cliven Lance) have since been facing various legal charges, arrests, guilty pleas et cetera for things like making terroristic threats (a felony under Nevada law as well as in many other jurisdictions - and oops, that means you can no longer legally own a gun in most jurisdictions as well) and various other lawless behaviors on their part, and meanwhile, ole Cliven's original cattle trespassing case is still working its way through the court system where he will end up having a snowball's chance in hell of winning, and which ends up costing him more and more money every day.

See, where you are confused is you are thinking wild west. The government doesn't typically operate wild west style - nor do they have to. That's what they have lawyers for. If your fictionalized fantasy version of the world, where the government wanted an armed showdown were actually true, the government would have sent a different set of resources in, as opposed to sending a half dozen lightly armed (and some unarmed) BLM guys and a couple car loads of local yokel sherrifs (which is all there was at the big standoff).

Instead, the government is working the long game, using the legal system, which at this point has its teeth sunk deep into Bundy like a bulldog, causing him pain every single time he so much as wiggles, and at this point, the more Bundy tries to fight, the weaker he will get, until finally he drops from exhaustion. At this point the best thing that could happen to him is he keels over from a heart attack before getting his court date.

I don't doubt the government is coming down on Bundy hard.

The funny thing? Is you don't even see the problem with the bolded, never mind the rest of your statement. Imagine this is you and the IRS. Sound like fun to you? And before you go all "I pay my taxes", consider how many times the IRS has been wrong and people have had their bank accounts locked, checks garnished, livelihoods destroyed, etc. If that's the government you want, you are a lost soul.

Spare us the bullshit. It's crystal clear (and the courts have already agreed) that Cliven Bundy has been screwing American taxpayers for two decades, ever since he decided to stop paying grazing fees and ever since he then started trespassing on land he didn't own to graze his cattle for profit at the expense of others. You want to talk about "livelihood" how would you like it if I routinely came to your store and shoplifted from it and then resold the goods on Ebay for my own financial benefit? That's basically what Bundy has been doing for 20 years, by allowing his cattle to graze for free on land he doesn't own, whereas other ranchers pay their fees without issue. And it's not even as though grazing fees are even that exorbitant, it's a mere $1.69 per month per cow and calf - far far cheaper than owning and maintaining your own land and paying the county property taxes on it, far far cheaper than leasing land from a private landowner neighbor and for damn sure far cheaper than buying feed. It's a hell of a good deal, yet Bundy wants to screw taxpayers even out of that paltry amount - and has been doing it for over 20 years. Enough is enough.

As for his bullshit claim that "he was there first" - I suggest you read up on history - the reason he's on that land at all goes back to the Mexican-American War, where the Mexico-Texas conflict escalated to the point where the US Army marched all the way to Mexico City and captured it, forcing the Mexican government to surrender and capitulate, and part of the terms of surrender included giving up lands which included what is now Nevada in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. At that point, all of the former Mexican Government owned lands that fell under terms of surrender, with the exception of lands that had already been specifically privately deeded became US land in the ownership of the Federal Government - the US federal government has owned the land that Bundy is grazing for long before anyone named Bundy even lived in Nevada, and those federal lands are under the purview of the BLM. Nowhere ever in history did anyone in Bundy's family ever hold any legal claim to the actual land itself.

See Venezuela. How's that working out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gee, if the IRS waited through eight court judgments and 16 years before trying to take possession of my car or house, I would say they were wimps.

The IRS just do it. Guilty until proven innocent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it's everyone's position that our government could get away with an internal holocaust and not meet with an armed resistance?

My position is knowing the amount of weaponry in the hands of the American people, it definitely would give a tyrant pause.

That's as it should be.

Armed resistance is useless without social organization, networking, and control of institutions. In fact, they matter far more than weapons. Helen Fein in Accounting for Genocide argued that it was the nations with independent institutions that did not support the Holocaust that were less likely to cooperate with the Nazi efforts to send Jews to the camp.

+1,000,000

Nowhere in history did a couple dozen untrained, obese, right wing ridgerunners with guns ever prevent an invasion or prevent governmental tyranny or oppression.

If anything, libertarianism and your desire to be independent, armed loners is far more likely to be your undoing if anything bad were ever to come to be.

Any yet, it worked for Bundy

LOL! Are you sure? Many of his supporters and two of his sons (Ryan and Cliven Lance) have since been facing various legal charges, arrests, guilty pleas et cetera for things like making terroristic threats (a felony under Nevada law as well as in many other jurisdictions - and oops, that means you can no longer legally own a gun in most jurisdictions as well) and various other lawless behaviors on their part, and meanwhile, ole Cliven's original cattle trespassing case is still working its way through the court system where he will end up having a snowball's chance in hell of winning, and which ends up costing him more and more money every day.

See, where you are confused is you are thinking wild west. The government doesn't typically operate wild west style - nor do they have to. That's what they have lawyers for. If your fictionalized fantasy version of the world, where the government wanted an armed showdown were actually true, the government would have sent a different set of resources in, as opposed to sending a half dozen lightly armed (and some unarmed) BLM guys and a couple car loads of local yokel sherrifs (which is all there was at the big standoff).

Instead, the government is working the long game, using the legal system, which at this point has its teeth sunk deep into Bundy like a bulldog, causing him pain every single time he so much as wiggles, and at this point, the more Bundy tries to fight, the weaker he will get, until finally he drops from exhaustion. At this point the best thing that could happen to him is he keels over from a heart attack before getting his court date.

I don't doubt the government is coming down on Bundy hard.

The funny thing? Is you don't even see the problem with the bolded, never mind the rest of your statement. Imagine this is you and the IRS. Sound like fun to you? And before you go all "I pay my taxes", consider how many times the IRS has been wrong and people have had their bank accounts locked, checks garnished, livelihoods destroyed, etc. If that's the government you want, you are a lost soul.

Spare us the bullshit. It's crystal clear (and the courts have already agreed) that Cliven Bundy has been screwing American taxpayers for two decades, ever since he decided to stop paying grazing fees and ever since he then started trespassing on land he didn't own to graze his cattle for profit at the expense of others. You want to talk about "livelihood" how would you like it if I routinely came to your store and shoplifted from it and then resold the goods on Ebay for my own financial benefit? That's basically what Bundy has been doing for 20 years, by allowing his cattle to graze for free on land he doesn't own, whereas other ranchers pay their fees without issue. And it's not even as though grazing fees are even that exorbitant, it's a mere $1.69 per month per cow and calf - far far cheaper than owning and maintaining your own land and paying the county property taxes on it, far far cheaper than leasing land from a private landowner neighbor and for damn sure far cheaper than buying feed. It's a hell of a good deal, yet Bundy wants to screw taxpayers even out of that paltry amount - and has been doing it for over 20 years. Enough is enough.

As for his bullshit claim that "he was there first" - I suggest you read up on history - the reason he's on that land at all goes back to the Mexican-American War, where the Mexico-Texas conflict escalated to the point where the US Army marched all the way to Mexico City and captured it, forcing the Mexican government to surrender and capitulate, and part of the terms of surrender included giving up lands which included what is now Nevada in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. At that point, all of the former Mexican Government owned lands that fell under terms of surrender, with the exception of lands that had already been specifically privately deeded became US land in the ownership of the Federal Government - the US federal government has owned the land that Bundy is grazing for long before anyone named Bundy even lived in Nevada, and those federal lands are under the purview of the BLM. Nowhere ever in history did anyone in Bundy's family ever hold any legal claim to the actual land itself.

See Venezuela. How's that working out?

You love your idea of libertarianism where we don't need any government, just guys with guns - see Somalia, how's that working out?

[Anonymous]

Who's proposing "Venezuela?"

Nobody.

Pretty idiotic statement to say "See Venezuela, how's that working out."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who's proposing "Venezuela?"

Nobody.

Pretty idiotic statement to say "See Venezuela, how's that working out."

Really? I've heard 'the Government can crush you', 'the benevolent government gave out that land', etc. Clearly, no one understands that the more that's under government control, the more power the government has over you.