Ben Carson and the Holocaust

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "Nazi Gun Control" theory is a complete lie. The German laws passed in 1938 essentially DE-regulated many aspects of gun ownership and gun transfers. The Treaty of Versailles referred to above was in 1919 and had nothing to do with Nazisim or the German people "willingly voting to give up their guns," it was a function of the terms of surrender after WWI. Gun laws under Hitler were actually LOOSER than they were prior to 1938.

More on that: http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/

Furthermore, the notion that mere fact of gun ownership can prevent genocide or that gun control is associated with genocide is utterly ludicrous. Just look at the genocides in recent history:

The Sudanese genocide in Darfur - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

The Bosnian genocide in Srebenica - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

The Rwandan genocide - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

Carson does not know history, and neither does Wayne LaPierre, who by all accounts appears to be the originator of this big lie about Nazi gun control. And frankly both of them come across as a bit unhinged with this stuff.

I think Carson knows history better than....Salon...


http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/10/09/ben-carson-right-yes-jews-guns-holocaust/

A little bit of that history from this article:

Well, of course the “small number of personal firearms available to Germany’s Jews” wouldn’t have prevented the Holocaust. That was the entire goal of prohibiting Jews from owning firearms over the course of years.

The Nazi genocide against Jews relied on two factors: a population that, understandably, believed no sane or rational force on the planet, let alone the highly civilized Germans, would systematically murder civilians for no discernable purpose; and disarming that population before they could recognize the truth. Gun control had a long history in Germany long before the Holocaust. In 1920, Germany essentially seized all firearms. In 1928, they liberalized their gun laws but still required licenses to purchase weapons (and banned gypsies from obtaining such licenses); until 1938, the law would be used as an excuse to confiscate weapons from Jews.

[Anonymous]

Again you are repeating the jumbled up version that conflates the WWI terms of surrender with Nazism. And you fail to acknowledge that the Jews were significantly outnumbered regardless of whether they had guns or not, along with ignoring the fact that "good guys with guns" (those folks whose guns were not confiscated) did not do anything for the Jews, along with ignoring the fact that all of the other countries which Germany subsequently invaded had guns, which obviously did not save them from invasion.

Look, basic REALITY refutes the view that "good guys with guns" would have prevented the holocaust. As do the events of every other recent genocide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "Nazi Gun Control" theory is a complete lie. The German laws passed in 1938 essentially DE-regulated many aspects of gun ownership and gun transfers. The Treaty of Versailles referred to above was in 1919 and had nothing to do with Nazisim or the German people "willingly voting to give up their guns," it was a function of the terms of surrender after WWI. Gun laws under Hitler were actually LOOSER than they were prior to 1938.

More on that: http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/

Furthermore, the notion that mere fact of gun ownership can prevent genocide or that gun control is associated with genocide is utterly ludicrous. Just look at the genocides in recent history:

The Sudanese genocide in Darfur - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

The Bosnian genocide in Srebenica - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

The Rwandan genocide - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

Carson does not know history, and neither does Wayne LaPierre, who by all accounts appears to be the originator of this big lie about Nazi gun control. And frankly both of them come across as a bit unhinged with this stuff.

I think Carson knows history better than....Salon...


http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/10/09/ben-carson-right-yes-jews-guns-holocaust/

A little bit of that history from this article:

Well, of course the “small number of personal firearms available to Germany’s Jews” wouldn’t have prevented the Holocaust. That was the entire goal of prohibiting Jews from owning firearms over the course of years.

The Nazi genocide against Jews relied on two factors: a population that, understandably, believed no sane or rational force on the planet, let alone the highly civilized Germans, would systematically murder civilians for no discernable purpose; and disarming that population before they could recognize the truth. Gun control had a long history in Germany long before the Holocaust. In 1920, Germany essentially seized all firearms. In 1928, they liberalized their gun laws but still required licenses to purchase weapons (and banned gypsies from obtaining such licenses); until 1938, the law would be used as an excuse to confiscate weapons from Jews.

A little bit of history that Breitbart fails to mention: Jews had guns in the Warsaw ghetto. They planned a resistance movement months in advance. They had guns and they fought. Nevertheless they were all shipped off to the death camps.

The Warsaw Uprising. I thought this was common knowledge, but apparently not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.examiner.com/article/the-nazi-gun-confiscation-and-obama

BREAKING NEWS: Occupying armies disarm the countries they successfully invade. According to this article, this counts as "gun control."

I wouldn't let my parrot shit on the Examiner.

[Anonymous]

Does Dr. Carson think the Jews should have rushed toward the German SS because, ya know, they couldn't shoot all of the Jews at once with machine guns?

[Anonymous]

What a bizarre question by CNN to begin with - I don't think any answer would be "good" or considered totally politically correct. It's like a trap question if there is such a thing. I mean really - damned if you do or don't or whatever you answer unless you say I'd prefer not to answer, or responding with a question about the appropriateness of the question - I guess that would be the best answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its controversial because it isn't true. Minority populations and one minority population in particular could not defend themselves against the Nazi's because of the fascist, nationalist, jingoist sentiment of the majority population in that time and place. Whole countries with whole armies couldn't defend themselves against it and were taken over. Armed Jews would not have solved the problem that was Nazism. A completely ridiculous thing to have said and an entirely warped way to try to oppose gun control.

But one country did defend themselves, and the other countries as well, namely America. And they brought guns.

America was/is geographically isolated from Europe. While our soldiers did eventually join the fight, they did it on foreign land. People back in the U.S. were impacted in some ways but there was no imminent threat to our land. Granted, Pearl Harbor was the exception, but we didn't exactly fight back that day because we were taken by surprise.

Not to derail thread, but Pearl Harbor was a surprise to everyone but the FDR administration

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If only the Nazis had more guns, maybe some of them would have killed each other, by accident or because of personal grievances or whatever, and there would have been fewer Nazis as a result.

Sad.

Or, here's another one: If only Hitler had been accepted to art school in Vienna as a younger man, maybe he wouldn't have grown to be so angry and blame all of his personal failures on an entire class of people...

If only more people had guns, maybe there would have been a mass shooting at Hitler's art school, and he would have been killed.

[Anonymous]

Wherever more people own guns, more people get killed by guns.

Map of per capita gun ownership versus per capita gun deaths:



More guns do not prevent crime or mass killings. In fact, it's the exact opposite.

"Good guys with guns" = FICTION

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
If only the Nazis had more guns, maybe some of them would have killed each other, by accident or because of personal grievances or whatever, and there would have been fewer Nazis as a result.

Sad.


Or, here's another one: If only Hitler had been accepted to art school in Vienna as a younger man, maybe he wouldn't have grown to be so angry and blame all of his personal failures on an entire class of people...


If only more people had guns, maybe there would have been a mass shooting at Hitler's art school, and he would have been killed.

Nazi killed a lot of their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "Nazi Gun Control" theory is a complete lie. The German laws passed in 1938 essentially DE-regulated many aspects of gun ownership and gun transfers. The Treaty of Versailles referred to above was in 1919 and had nothing to do with Nazisim or the German people "willingly voting to give up their guns," it was a function of the terms of surrender after WWI. Gun laws under Hitler were actually LOOSER than they were prior to 1938.

More on that: http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/

Furthermore, the notion that mere fact of gun ownership can prevent genocide or that gun control is associated with genocide is utterly ludicrous. Just look at the genocides in recent history:

The Sudanese genocide in Darfur - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

The Bosnian genocide in Srebenica - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

The Rwandan genocide - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

Carson does not know history, and neither does Wayne LaPierre, who by all accounts appears to be the originator of this big lie about Nazi gun control. And frankly both of them come across as a bit unhinged with this stuff.

I think Carson knows history better than....Salon...


http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/10/09/ben-carson-right-yes-jews-guns-holocaust/

A little bit of that history from this article:

Well, of course the “small number of personal firearms available to Germany’s Jews” wouldn’t have prevented the Holocaust. That was the entire goal of prohibiting Jews from owning firearms over the course of years.

The Nazi genocide against Jews relied on two factors: a population that, understandably, believed no sane or rational force on the planet, let alone the highly civilized Germans, would systematically murder civilians for no discernable purpose; and disarming that population before they could recognize the truth. Gun control had a long history in Germany long before the Holocaust. In 1920, Germany essentially seized all firearms. In 1928, they liberalized their gun laws but still required licenses to purchase weapons (and banned gypsies from obtaining such licenses); until 1938, the law would be used as an excuse to confiscate weapons from Jews.

A little bit of history that Breitbart fails to mention: Jews had guns in the Warsaw ghetto. They planned a resistance movement months in advance. They had guns and they fought. Nevertheless they were all shipped off to the death camps.

The Warsaw Uprising. I thought this was common knowledge, but apparently not.

You didn't read the article. Clearly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "Nazi Gun Control" theory is a complete lie. The German laws passed in 1938 essentially DE-regulated many aspects of gun ownership and gun transfers. The Treaty of Versailles referred to above was in 1919 and had nothing to do with Nazisim or the German people "willingly voting to give up their guns," it was a function of the terms of surrender after WWI. Gun laws under Hitler were actually LOOSER than they were prior to 1938.

More on that: http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/

Furthermore, the notion that mere fact of gun ownership can prevent genocide or that gun control is associated with genocide is utterly ludicrous. Just look at the genocides in recent history:

The Sudanese genocide in Darfur - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

The Bosnian genocide in Srebenica - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

The Rwandan genocide - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

Carson does not know history, and neither does Wayne LaPierre, who by all accounts appears to be the originator of this big lie about Nazi gun control. And frankly both of them come across as a bit unhinged with this stuff.

I think Carson knows history better than....Salon...


http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/10/09/ben-carson-right-yes-jews-guns-holocaust/

A little bit of that history from this article:

Well, of course the “small number of personal firearms available to Germany’s Jews” wouldn’t have prevented the Holocaust. That was the entire goal of prohibiting Jews from owning firearms over the course of years.

The Nazi genocide against Jews relied on two factors: a population that, understandably, believed no sane or rational force on the planet, let alone the highly civilized Germans, would systematically murder civilians for no discernable purpose; and disarming that population before they could recognize the truth. Gun control had a long history in Germany long before the Holocaust. In 1920, Germany essentially seized all firearms. In 1928, they liberalized their gun laws but still required licenses to purchase weapons (and banned gypsies from obtaining such licenses); until 1938, the law would be used as an excuse to confiscate weapons from Jews.

A little bit of history that Breitbart fails to mention: Jews had guns in the Warsaw ghetto. They planned a resistance movement months in advance. They had guns and they fought. Nevertheless they were all shipped off to the death camps.

The Warsaw Uprising. I thought this was common knowledge, but apparently not.

Great example of an accurate statement, they did have guns, while ignoring the fact that the high estimate is about 500 armed resistance members with an average estimate of about 250 to 300. That means that out of the 50 to 60k living in the ghetto at the time you have less than 1% armed.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005188

[Anonymous]

Carson's real sin was using the term "holocaust." Only Jews can use this term.

More military aid to Israel to avoid another holocaust- this is ok when said by a Jew.

What Carson said- thematically pretty similar- unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "Nazi Gun Control" theory is a complete lie. The German laws passed in 1938 essentially DE-regulated many aspects of gun ownership and gun transfers. The Treaty of Versailles referred to above was in 1919 and had nothing to do with Nazisim or the German people "willingly voting to give up their guns," it was a function of the terms of surrender after WWI. Gun laws under Hitler were actually LOOSER than they were prior to 1938.

More on that: http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/

Furthermore, the notion that mere fact of gun ownership can prevent genocide or that gun control is associated with genocide is utterly ludicrous. Just look at the genocides in recent history:

The Sudanese genocide in Darfur - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

The Bosnian genocide in Srebenica - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

The Rwandan genocide - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

Carson does not know history, and neither does Wayne LaPierre, who by all accounts appears to be the originator of this big lie about Nazi gun control. And frankly both of them come across as a bit unhinged with this stuff.

I think Carson knows history better than....Salon...


http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/10/09/ben-carson-right-yes-jews-guns-holocaust/

A little bit of that history from this article:

Well, of course the “small number of personal firearms available to Germany’s Jews” wouldn’t have prevented the Holocaust. That was the entire goal of prohibiting Jews from owning firearms over the course of years.

The Nazi genocide against Jews relied on two factors: a population that, understandably, believed no sane or rational force on the planet, let alone the highly civilized Germans, would systematically murder civilians for no discernable purpose; and disarming that population before they could recognize the truth. Gun control had a long history in Germany long before the Holocaust. In 1920, Germany essentially seized all firearms. In 1928, they liberalized their gun laws but still required licenses to purchase weapons (and banned gypsies from obtaining such licenses); until 1938, the law would be used as an excuse to confiscate weapons from Jews.

A little bit of history that Breitbart fails to mention: Jews had guns in the Warsaw ghetto. They planned a resistance movement months in advance. They had guns and they fought. Nevertheless they were all shipped off to the death camps.

The Warsaw Uprising. I thought this was common knowledge, but apparently not.

Great example of an accurate statement, they did have guns, while ignoring the fact that the high estimate is about 500 armed resistance members with an average estimate of about 250 to 300. That means that out of the 50 to 60k living in the ghetto at the time you have less than 1% armed.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005188

You mistakenly confused the size of the organized fighters with the number of gun owners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "Nazi Gun Control" theory is a complete lie. The German laws passed in 1938 essentially DE-regulated many aspects of gun ownership and gun transfers. The Treaty of Versailles referred to above was in 1919 and had nothing to do with Nazisim or the German people "willingly voting to give up their guns," it was a function of the terms of surrender after WWI. Gun laws under Hitler were actually LOOSER than they were prior to 1938.

More on that: http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/

Furthermore, the notion that mere fact of gun ownership can prevent genocide or that gun control is associated with genocide is utterly ludicrous. Just look at the genocides in recent history:

The Sudanese genocide in Darfur - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

The Bosnian genocide in Srebenica - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

The Rwandan genocide - they had guns, it didn't happen because of "gun control"

Carson does not know history, and neither does Wayne LaPierre, who by all accounts appears to be the originator of this big lie about Nazi gun control. And frankly both of them come across as a bit unhinged with this stuff.

I think Carson knows history better than....Salon...


http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/10/09/ben-carson-right-yes-jews-guns-holocaust/

A little bit of that history from this article:

Well, of course the “small number of personal firearms available to Germany’s Jews” wouldn’t have prevented the Holocaust. That was the entire goal of prohibiting Jews from owning firearms over the course of years.

The Nazi genocide against Jews relied on two factors: a population that, understandably, believed no sane or rational force on the planet, let alone the highly civilized Germans, would systematically murder civilians for no discernable purpose; and disarming that population before they could recognize the truth. Gun control had a long history in Germany long before the Holocaust. In 1920, Germany essentially seized all firearms. In 1928, they liberalized their gun laws but still required licenses to purchase weapons (and banned gypsies from obtaining such licenses); until 1938, the law would be used as an excuse to confiscate weapons from Jews.

A little bit of history that Breitbart fails to mention: Jews had guns in the Warsaw ghetto. They planned a resistance movement months in advance. They had guns and they fought. Nevertheless they were all shipped off to the death camps.

The Warsaw Uprising. I thought this was common knowledge, but apparently not.

Great example of an accurate statement, they did have guns, while ignoring the fact that the high estimate is about 500 armed resistance members with an average estimate of about 250 to 300. That means that out of the 50 to 60k living in the ghetto at the time you have less than 1% armed.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005188

You mistakenly confused the size of the organized fighters with the number of gun owners.

No confusion at all. You ignored the ''Jews had guns'' which is what I responded to.