Why do some parents dislike the SOLs so very much?

[Anonymous]

I'm a teacher and a parent. I don't like SOL's for my child or for my students.


That's because you know they're a reflection on you.


Not either PP. Retired teacher here. The tests are a mess and ruining education. The teachers are teaching to the tests because that is what they are directed to do. Their jobs depend on it. Good teachers try to get around it, but there is no avoiding it. If you think these tests are a good thing, then you have no understanding of what they are or what they mean.

If you are a baker and your pay depends only on how well you bake a coconut cake--what are you going to spend your time practicing? Chocolate? Maybe a little. Pound cake? Sometimes. But, you are going to spend most of your time perfecting the coconut cake. Sure, you might even bake a batch of cookies now and then, but most of the time will be spent on coconut cake.

Education is the same way. The teachers and schools are being judged on how well their students pass a test. If something is not tested, it may be presented to the kids--but will it really be emphasized and taught? Just be sure the kids know how to fill in bubbles.




The tests reflect what is in the curriculum. So by saying they "teach the test" you mean they teach the curriculum. Which is how it should be.

You seem to forget that teacher quality had gone downhill. That's what this is all about. The notion that the "teachers know best" as a monolith is ridiculous. Yes, there are good teachers, but not ALL of them are good. What teachers fear more than anything is accountability (which is what teachers' unions were beginning to protect them from). So, spare me. I remember what brought this all on in the first place. It wasn't pretty.



Teaching to the test does not mean teaching to the curriculum. Teaching to the test means they spend crazy amount of time having the student memorize only the information the tests cover and doing practices tests so they understand the format of the test. The tests are not about interpreting and applying concepts learned throughout the year, they are about memorization.

Then you have bad teachers.

By the same vein, can't bad teachers keep chugging along if they spend the year teaching only to the test for all their students pass?

Only if SOL's is the only criteria they are measured by. There are other tests the students take. Are you saying the principals do nothing except look at the SOL data? What about ecart tests? essays, report cards, AP tests?

Um, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm a teacher and a parent. I don't like SOL's for my child or for my students.


That's because you know they're a reflection on you.

Not either PP. Retired teacher here. The tests are a mess and ruining education. The teachers are teaching to the tests because that is what they are directed to do. Their jobs depend on it. Good teachers try to get around it, but there is no avoiding it. If you think these tests are a good thing, then you have no understanding of what they are or what they mean.

If you are a baker and your pay depends only on how well you bake a coconut cake--what are you going to spend your time practicing? Chocolate? Maybe a little. Pound cake? Sometimes. But, you are going to spend most of your time perfecting the coconut cake. Sure, you might even bake a batch of cookies now and then, but most of the time will be spent on coconut cake.

Education is the same way. The teachers and schools are being judged on how well their students pass a test. If something is not tested, it may be presented to the kids--but will it really be emphasized and taught? Just be sure the kids know how to fill in bubbles.

The tests reflect what is in the curriculum. So by saying they "teach the test" you mean they teach the curriculum. Which is how it should be.

You seem to forget that teacher quality had gone downhill. That's what this is all about. The notion that the "teachers know best" as a monolith is ridiculous. Yes, there are good teachers, but not ALL of them are good. What teachers fear more than anything is accountability (which is what teachers' unions were beginning to protect them from). So, spare me. I remember what brought this all on in the first place. It wasn't pretty.

Teaching to the test does not mean teaching to the curriculum. Teaching to the test means they spend crazy amount of time having the student memorize only the information the tests cover and doing practices tests so they understand the format of the test. The tests are not about interpreting and applying concepts learned throughout the year, they are about memorization.

Then you have bad teachers.

By the same vein, can't bad teachers keep chugging along if they spend the year teaching only to the test for all their students pass?

Only if SOL's is the only criteria they are measured by. There are other tests the students take. Are you saying the principals do nothing except look at the SOL data? What about ecart tests? essays, report cards, AP tests?

They make take other tests but their worth is measured by SOLs. That is why people have an issue with SOLs. They aren't used to measure the student - they are seen as an evaluation of the student and school.

There was a case were 178 teachers were caught cheating prepping students for the SOLs. That is the lengths people are going to in order to get students to pass the test.

[Anonymous]

PP here, this should say: The students make take other tests but the teacher's worth is measured by SOLs. That is why people have an issue with SOLs. They aren't used to measure the student - they are seen as an evaluation of the teacher and school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here, this should say: The students make take other tests but the teacher's worth is measured by SOLs. That is why people have an issue with SOLs. They aren't used to measure the student - they are seen as an evaluation of the teacher and school.

This is in FCPS correct? Isn't this something that FCPS can correct? Should it be brought to the school board's attention? I'm fine with the test being a part of the evaluation and schools getting additional help if many students are failing the SOL's. I'm not in favor of the SOL's being a sole or primary judge of the teacher. Do you have a link that describes how a teacher is evaluated? I believe I saw one on DCUM in years past and thought it included a long list of items.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
SOLs are all about memorization. They are multiple choice tests. In elementary school, that sort of testing is fine.

No, it's not. At any age, kids can be learning critical thinking, analysis, and interpretation. They should be learning to ask good questions, not to answer rote ones.

They shouldn't be taking standardized tests in elementary school unless it's some sort of diagnostic test, in which case the results should go to the teacher and the parents, and no further unless the parties agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here, this should say: The students make take other tests but the teacher's worth is measured by SOLs. That is why people have an issue with SOLs. They aren't used to measure the student - they are seen as an evaluation of the teacher and school.

This is in FCPS correct? Isn't this something that FCPS can correct? Should it be brought to the school board's attention? I'm fine with the test being a part of the evaluation and schools getting additional help if many students are failing the SOL's. I'm not in favor of the SOL's being a sole or primary judge of the teacher. Do you have a link that describes how a teacher is evaluated? I believe I saw one on DCUM in years past and thought it included a long list of items.

No, I am another district. But really, this is a nationwide problem. Standardized testing has become ridiculous. Virginia is particularly irksome because the number of tests are higher than most states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here, this should say: The students make take other tests but the teacher's worth is measured by SOLs. That is why people have an issue with SOLs. They aren't used to measure the student - they are seen as an evaluation of the teacher and school.

This is in FCPS correct? Isn't this something that FCPS can correct? Should it be brought to the school board's attention? I'm fine with the test being a part of the evaluation and schools getting additional help if many students are failing the SOL's. I'm not in favor of the SOL's being a sole or primary judge of the teacher. Do you have a link that describes how a teacher is evaluated? I believe I saw one on DCUM in years past and thought it included a long list of items.

No, I am another district. But really, this is a nationwide problem. Standardized testing has become ridiculous. Virginia is particularly irksome because the number of tests are higher than most states.

To follow up - schools are actually punished by the state if their SOL scores drop. So the school board can't fix this - it is a much larger issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
SOLs are all about memorization. They are multiple choice tests. In elementary school, that sort of testing is fine.

No, it's not. At any age, kids can be learning critical thinking, analysis, and interpretation. They should be learning to ask good questions, not to answer rote ones.

They shouldn't be taking standardized tests in elementary school unless it's some sort of diagnostic test, in which case the results should go to the teacher and the parents, and no further unless the parties agree.

I'm not sure about other school districts but FCPS goes overboard with critical thinking. The SOL's are one of the few tests where general knowledge is tested. Most elementary schools in FCPS don't teach grammar as an example. People need to be comfortable with analyzing and answering rote questions such as "what is the main idea of the story" or "a water molecule is composed of" or "Sally had $1000. At 2% interest for 5 years, how much money will she have?" without going to a computer every single time. Having knowledge also leads to higher order thinking. As you learn more about a subject, the more you start to ask questions. The SOL tests I've seen test remembering, understanding, applying, and analyzing, but don't really test evaluating or creating except for the writing test. The rest of the year though is heavily focused on creating and evaluating more so than remembering, understanding, and applying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here, this should say: The students make take other tests but the teacher's worth is measured by SOLs. That is why people have an issue with SOLs. They aren't used to measure the student - they are seen as an evaluation of the teacher and school.

This is in FCPS correct? Isn't this something that FCPS can correct? Should it be brought to the school board's attention? I'm fine with the test being a part of the evaluation and schools getting additional help if many students are failing the SOL's. I'm not in favor of the SOL's being a sole or primary judge of the teacher. Do you have a link that describes how a teacher is evaluated? I believe I saw one on DCUM in years past and thought it included a long list of items.

No, I am another district. But really, this is a nationwide problem. Standardized testing has become ridiculous. Virginia is particularly irksome because the number of tests are higher than most states.

Are you in VA? If you aren't in FCPS, should you really be answering a question on how teachers are being graded by their principals in FCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here, this should say: The students make take other tests but the teacher's worth is measured by SOLs. That is why people have an issue with SOLs. They aren't used to measure the student - they are seen as an evaluation of the teacher and school.

This is in FCPS correct? Isn't this something that FCPS can correct? Should it be brought to the school board's attention? I'm fine with the test being a part of the evaluation and schools getting additional help if many students are failing the SOL's. I'm not in favor of the SOL's being a sole or primary judge of the teacher. Do you have a link that describes how a teacher is evaluated? I believe I saw one on DCUM in years past and thought it included a long list of items.

No, I am another district. But really, this is a nationwide problem. Standardized testing has become ridiculous. Virginia is particularly irksome because the number of tests are higher than most states.

Are you in VA? If you aren't in FCPS, should you really be answering a question on how teachers are being graded by their principals in FCPS?

Yes, because FCPS is the ONLY school district in VA. And the question above and this entire discussion only applies to FCPS because FCPS is the center of the universe. You are all that matter.

I am in ACPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here, this should say: The students make take other tests but the teacher's worth is measured by SOLs. That is why people have an issue with SOLs. They aren't used to measure the student - they are seen as an evaluation of the teacher and school.

This is in FCPS correct? Isn't this something that FCPS can correct? Should it be brought to the school board's attention? I'm fine with the test being a part of the evaluation and schools getting additional help if many students are failing the SOL's. I'm not in favor of the SOL's being a sole or primary judge of the teacher. Do you have a link that describes how a teacher is evaluated? I believe I saw one on DCUM in years past and thought it included a long list of items.

No, I am another district. But really, this is a nationwide problem. Standardized testing has become ridiculous. Virginia is particularly irksome because the number of tests are higher than most states.

Are you in VA? If you aren't in FCPS, should you really be answering a question on how teachers are being graded by their principals in FCPS?

Yes, because FCPS is the ONLY school district in VA. And the question above and this entire discussion only applies to FCPS because FCPS is the center of the universe. You are all that matter.

I am in ACPS.

I'm sure you are knowledgeable about SOL's. I don't see how you know that FCPS teachers are only being evaluated by their students SOL performances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here, this should say: The students make take other tests but the teacher's worth is measured by SOLs. That is why people have an issue with SOLs. They aren't used to measure the student - they are seen as an evaluation of the teacher and school.

This is in FCPS correct? Isn't this something that FCPS can correct? Should it be brought to the school board's attention? I'm fine with the test being a part of the evaluation and schools getting additional help if many students are failing the SOL's. I'm not in favor of the SOL's being a sole or primary judge of the teacher. Do you have a link that describes how a teacher is evaluated? I believe I saw one on DCUM in years past and thought it included a long list of items.

No, I am another district. But really, this is a nationwide problem. Standardized testing has become ridiculous. Virginia is particularly irksome because the number of tests are higher than most states.

Are you in VA? If you aren't in FCPS, should you really be answering a question on how teachers are being graded by their principals in FCPS?

Yes, because FCPS is the ONLY school district in VA. And the question above and this entire discussion only applies to FCPS because FCPS is the center of the universe. You are all that matter.

I am in ACPS.

I'm sure you are knowledgeable about SOL's. I don't see how you know that FCPS teachers are only being evaluated by their students SOL performances.

And what, of my posts (1, 3 and 5 above) made a comment specifically about FCPS? The poster asked me if my first post was about FCPS and I said no.

[Anonymous]

How are you knowledgeable of how ACPS teachers are evaluated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are you knowledgeable of how ACPS teachers are evaluated?

http://www.acps.k12.va.us/news/good-news/gn2012062203.php

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you all feel about VA getting rid of the writing test in 5th grade. Now there isn't a writing test till 8th grade? Your child won't have an actual writing test for 9 years of schooling.

Um. Every time your child's teacher assesses his or her writing, it's an actual writing test. You don't need a private for-profit company to assign a meaningless writing assignment to your child and have people hired off Craigslist to score it in order to have something count as a "writing test".