Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church

[Anonymous]

Thank you 11:51. I tend to get agitated on this board but you reminded me that there is a different way to look at these issues and to talk about them to those who are struggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My Presbyterian church has a beautiful wooden cross suspended from the ceiling, but no body.

Because the important thing is that he is risen, not that he was crucified.

This is interesting. I grew up catholic but never attended Catholic school so I could be getting some information wrong. I believe I was taught though that the most important thing was that Jesus died and suffered for our sins so that we could go to heaven. Somewhere along the line I was told that Jesus suffered in hell for all our sins after being crucified so that we could go to heaven. Not sure if this is the actual catholic teaching, but we definitely spent more time discussing his suffering than his rising. There is a whole month called Lent where catholics spend time "suffering" in a small way to remind themselves of Jesus's suffering. Then there is a long time at Easter where they rejoice that the gates to heaven are open, but the actual ascension is just one day of reflection. So catholics basically spend a lot of time remembering his suffering and rejoicing that they can go to heaven, but do not dwell excessively on the fact that Jesus's body rose from the dead to go back to God. They believe it, but I guess growing up it didn't seem like a huge feat since Jesus was god after all and came from God to begin with so was just going back home.

Curious now. What are protestant's taught?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so tired of folks who whine about the Catholic Church and yet no so little about it... If their yoga teacher told them to read a book about Vishnu, they would do it, but they prefer to bloviate about the Church rather than actually see what it is like.

there are PLENTY of Catholic parishes where OP would be perfectly comfortable, assuming that is that OP actually has some bona fide interest in attending a church (as opposed to kvetching).

Is there a listing of Catholic Churches that do not have Crucifixes? I once saw one in VA that had a huge risen (or perhaps rising) Christ on the Altar. Don't remember its name -- was there for a concert. The statue was completely dressed, in long robes.

This is St. Luke's in McLean. But the focus is still the same in that parish. It is a hard-core Catholic parish. I grew up in it. I am glad it gave me a solid grounding my faith.
This conversation has taken the weirdest turn. I had no idea that Protestants were so squeamish about this. I feel like I am having a conversation with my 2-year-old who doesn't like onions, or something similarly childish and illogical. Like, spiders. Or, ooh, bugs. Grow up, people, and like a previous poster said, do some reading and educating yourself about Catholicism before you bloviate about it. People always say they like to have "open minds" and be "liberal" and "accepting of those who think differently" until it comes to the Catholic Church. It's so crazy to me.

Squeamish? comparing a not liking to see a man nailed to a cross to an 2 year old not liking onions? Seems quite out of touch to me.

What if Christ had been executed in the twentieth century? -- would you feel OK about wearing a pendent with a tiny man tied to an electric chair? What if it were in different historical times and he was tied to a stake with flames engulfing him or leaned over a chopping block with his head freshly removed? Feeling squeamish yet?

It is clear that you have more problems with Catholicism than merely this issue. Unless you address your other things, you will feel this way towards the crucifix. I encourage you to delve more deeply into Catholic reading, scripture; perhaps meet with a priest and speak to him about this; and figure out why this bothers you so. I am glad you are pursuing it and not just squelching it. I feel you are searching for answers and perhaps what you are seeking is right at the heart of the Holy Catholic Church.

What do you have to say about the manner of Christ's death and it possibly making a person feel squeamish?

I would say it is right to feel squeamish about this. Imagine what Christ went through. And yet He did it. .. for us. He was 100% human, and yet he died this terrible death as a sacrifice for us all. If you merely feel squeamish looking at it, imagine what He went through, a thousand-fold more discomfort than what you are feeling from merely gazing upon it. Go with it, and imagine the incredible sacrifice and love He gave to us. He loves you so much, and is reaching out to you. Go with it, and pursue it further through reading, going to Mass, praying, meeting with a priest or active Catholics, etc.

So you disagree with 10:58, copied above, who thinks it's weird to feel squeamish about the Crucifixion and compares to to a 2 year old complaining about onions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so tired of folks who whine about the Catholic Church and yet no so little about it... If their yoga teacher told them to read a book about Vishnu, they would do it, but they prefer to bloviate about the Church rather than actually see what it is like.

there are PLENTY of Catholic parishes where OP would be perfectly comfortable, assuming that is that OP actually has some bona fide interest in attending a church (as opposed to kvetching).

Is there a listing of Catholic Churches that do not have Crucifixes? I once saw one in VA that had a huge risen (or perhaps rising) Christ on the Altar. Don't remember its name -- was there for a concert. The statue was completely dressed, in long robes.

This is St. Luke's in McLean. But the focus is still the same in that parish. It is a hard-core Catholic parish. I grew up in it. I am glad it gave me a solid grounding my faith.
This conversation has taken the weirdest turn. I had no idea that Protestants were so squeamish about this. I feel like I am having a conversation with my 2-year-old who doesn't like onions, or something similarly childish and illogical. Like, spiders. Or, ooh, bugs. Grow up, people, and like a previous poster said, do some reading and educating yourself about Catholicism before you bloviate about it. People always say they like to have "open minds" and be "liberal" and "accepting of those who think differently" until it comes to the Catholic Church. It's so crazy to me.

Squeamish? comparing a not liking to see a man nailed to a cross to an 2 year old not liking onions? Seems quite out of touch to me.

What if Christ had been executed in the twentieth century? -- would you feel OK about wearing a pendent with a tiny man tied to an electric chair? What if it were in different historical times and he was tied to a stake with flames engulfing him or leaned over a chopping block with his head freshly removed? Feeling squeamish yet?

But Christ didn't die in the 20th century. He was crucified. And if you spend any time from a young age onward being exposed to religion, art, history, culture, it shouldn't be a new shocking image. [b]

I almost applaud you for thinking you can discredit the crucifix after all his time ... here .. on DCUM.

That's the whole point that's being made -- Christians - especially Catholics - are so used to seeing these gory images that it's not shocking. But the concept of depicting a painful death IS quite shocking when seen in terms of modern methods, whose images are not exploited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so tired of folks who whine about the Catholic Church and yet no so little about it... If their yoga teacher told them to read a book about Vishnu, they would do it, but they prefer to bloviate about the Church rather than actually see what it is like.

there are PLENTY of Catholic parishes where OP would be perfectly comfortable, assuming that is that OP actually has some bona fide interest in attending a church (as opposed to kvetching).

Is there a listing of Catholic Churches that do not have Crucifixes? I once saw one in VA that had a huge risen (or perhaps rising) Christ on the Altar. Don't remember its name -- was there for a concert. The statue was completely dressed, in long robes.

This is St. Luke's in McLean. But the focus is still the same in that parish. It is a hard-core Catholic parish. I grew up in it. I am glad it gave me a solid grounding my faith.
This conversation has taken the weirdest turn. I had no idea that Protestants were so squeamish about this. I feel like I am having a conversation with my 2-year-old who doesn't like onions, or something similarly childish and illogical. Like, spiders. Or, ooh, bugs. Grow up, people, and like a previous poster said, do some reading and educating yourself about Catholicism before you bloviate about it. People always say they like to have "open minds" and be "liberal" and "accepting of those who think differently" until it comes to the Catholic Church. It's so crazy to me.

Squeamish? comparing a not liking to see a man nailed to a cross to an 2 year old not liking onions? Seems quite out of touch to me.

What if Christ had been executed in the twentieth century? -- would you feel OK about wearing a pendent with a tiny man tied to an electric chair? What if it were in different historical times and he was tied to a stake with flames engulfing him or leaned over a chopping block with his head freshly removed? Feeling squeamish yet?

But Christ didn't die in the 20th century. He was crucified. And if you spend any time from a young age onward being exposed to religion, art, history, culture, it shouldn't be a new shocking image. [b]

I almost applaud you for thinking you can discredit the crucifix after all his time ... here .. on DCUM.

That's the whole point that's being made -- Christians - especially Catholics - are so used to seeing these gory images that it's not shocking. But the concept of depicting a painful death IS quite shocking when seen in terms of modern methods, whose images are not exploited.

I'm not going to debate this. We hold the image of Christ's crucifixion differently than you do. This little thread isn't even scratching the surface of our differences. I can see that it would be shocking for some, but that reaction isn't universal. Don't know what else to say about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My Presbyterian church has a beautiful wooden cross suspended from the ceiling, but no body.

Because the important thing is that he is risen, not that he was crucified.

This is interesting. I grew up catholic but never attended Catholic school so I could be getting some information wrong. I believe I was taught though that the most important thing was that Jesus died and suffered for our sins so that we could go to heaven. Somewhere along the line I was told that Jesus suffered in hell for all our sins after being crucified so that we could go to heaven. Not sure if this is the actual catholic teaching, but we definitely spent more time discussing his suffering than his rising. There is a whole month called Lent where catholics spend time "suffering" in a small way to remind themselves of Jesus's suffering. Then there is a long time at Easter where they rejoice that the gates to heaven are open, but the actual ascension is just one day of reflection. So catholics basically spend a lot of time remembering his suffering and rejoicing that they can go to heaven, but do not dwell excessively on the fact that Jesus's body rose from the dead to go back to God. They believe it, but I guess growing up it didn't seem like a huge feat since Jesus was god after all and came from God to begin with so was just going back home.

Curious now. What are protestant's taught?

Also I think as an adult I spend more time focusing on easter and spreading the good news than I did as a child. As adults I feel the church asks me to bring others to Christ, but as a child I don't think there was a lot of emphasis on this. Our ccd class always gave out a Lenten chart to keep track of our "suffering" during the month and we spent one week discussing the stations of the cross, one week discussion the last supper, and one week discussing our Lenten sacrifices every year. Then for the eight week easter time, we spent time discussing the resurrection, Pentecost, and ascension, but there weren't as many projects for the kids to do. I am curious what children are taught during the easter season in protestant churches since apparently that is what they dwell on.

[Anonymous]

Boy, wait until all of your kids start to study world history. Their sheltered little minds won't be able to handle it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so tired of folks who whine about the Catholic Church and yet no so little about it... If their yoga teacher told them to read a book about Vishnu, they would do it, but they prefer to bloviate about the Church rather than actually see what it is like.

there are PLENTY of Catholic parishes where OP would be perfectly comfortable, assuming that is that OP actually has some bona fide interest in attending a church (as opposed to kvetching).

Is there a listing of Catholic Churches that do not have Crucifixes? I once saw one in VA that had a huge risen (or perhaps rising) Christ on the Altar. Don't remember its name -- was there for a concert. The statue was completely dressed, in long robes.

This is St. Luke's in McLean. But the focus is still the same in that parish. It is a hard-core Catholic parish. I grew up in it. I am glad it gave me a solid grounding my faith.
This conversation has taken the weirdest turn. I had no idea that Protestants were so squeamish about this. I feel like I am having a conversation with my 2-year-old who doesn't like onions, or something similarly childish and illogical. Like, spiders. Or, ooh, bugs. Grow up, people, and like a previous poster said, do some reading and educating yourself about Catholicism before you bloviate about it. People always say they like to have "open minds" and be "liberal" and "accepting of those who think differently" until it comes to the Catholic Church. It's so crazy to me.

Squeamish? comparing a not liking to see a man nailed to a cross to an 2 year old not liking onions? Seems quite out of touch to me.

What if Christ had been executed in the twentieth century? -- would you feel OK about wearing a pendent with a tiny man tied to an electric chair? What if it were in different historical times and he was tied to a stake with flames engulfing him or leaned over a chopping block with his head freshly removed? Feeling squeamish yet?

But Christ didn't die in the 20th century. He was crucified. And if you spend any time from a young age onward being exposed to religion, art, history, culture, it shouldn't be a new shocking image. [b]

I almost applaud you for thinking you can discredit the crucifix after all his time ... here .. on DCUM.

That's the whole point that's being made -- Christians - especially Catholics - are so used to seeing these gory images that it's not shocking. But the concept of depicting a painful death IS quite shocking when seen in terms of modern methods, whose images are not exploited.

I'm not going to debate this. We hold the image of Christ's crucifixion differently than you do. This little thread isn't even scratching the surface of our differences. I can see that it would be shocking for some, but that reaction isn't universal. Don't know what else to say about it.

Seems like you were fine with debating it, until you ran out of debating points -- which is OK, because religion is ultimately not about who has the best argument -- it's about faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so tired of folks who whine about the Catholic Church and yet no so little about it... If their yoga teacher told them to read a book about Vishnu, they would do it, but they prefer to bloviate about the Church rather than actually see what it is like.

there are PLENTY of Catholic parishes where OP would be perfectly comfortable, assuming that is that OP actually has some bona fide interest in attending a church (as opposed to kvetching).

Is there a listing of Catholic Churches that do not have Crucifixes? I once saw one in VA that had a huge risen (or perhaps rising) Christ on the Altar. Don't remember its name -- was there for a concert. The statue was completely dressed, in long robes.

This is St. Luke's in McLean. But the focus is still the same in that parish. It is a hard-core Catholic parish. I grew up in it. I am glad it gave me a solid grounding my faith.
This conversation has taken the weirdest turn. I had no idea that Protestants were so squeamish about this. I feel like I am having a conversation with my 2-year-old who doesn't like onions, or something similarly childish and illogical. Like, spiders. Or, ooh, bugs. Grow up, people, and like a previous poster said, do some reading and educating yourself about Catholicism before you bloviate about it. People always say they like to have "open minds" and be "liberal" and "accepting of those who think differently" until it comes to the Catholic Church. It's so crazy to me.

Squeamish? comparing a not liking to see a man nailed to a cross to an 2 year old not liking onions? Seems quite out of touch to me.

What if Christ had been executed in the twentieth century? -- would you feel OK about wearing a pendent with a tiny man tied to an electric chair? What if it were in different historical times and he was tied to a stake with flames engulfing him or leaned over a chopping block with his head freshly removed? Feeling squeamish yet?

But Christ didn't die in the 20th century. He was crucified. And if you spend any time from a young age onward being exposed to religion, art, history, culture, it shouldn't be a new shocking image. [b]

I almost applaud you for thinking you can discredit the crucifix after all his time ... here .. on DCUM.

That's the whole point that's being made -- Christians - especially Catholics - are so used to seeing these gory images that it's not shocking. But the concept of depicting a painful death IS quite shocking when seen in terms of modern methods, whose images are not exploited.

I'm not going to debate this. We hold the image of Christ's crucifixion differently than you do. This little thread isn't even scratching the surface of our differences. I can see that it would be shocking for some, but that reaction isn't universal. Don't know what else to say about it.

Seems like you were fine with debating it, until you ran out of debating points -- which is OK, because religion is ultimately not about who has the best argument -- it's about faith.

I'm sure that's what you believe about me. Very sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boy, wait until all of your kids start to study world history. Their sheltered little minds won't be able to handle it.

Their minds might be ready for historical information that makes a lot more sense than what they were taught in sunday school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so tired of folks who whine about the Catholic Church and yet no so little about it... If their yoga teacher told them to read a book about Vishnu, they would do it, but they prefer to bloviate about the Church rather than actually see what it is like.

there are PLENTY of Catholic parishes where OP would be perfectly comfortable, assuming that is that OP actually has some bona fide interest in attending a church (as opposed to kvetching).

Is there a listing of Catholic Churches that do not have Crucifixes? I once saw one in VA that had a huge risen (or perhaps rising) Christ on the Altar. Don't remember its name -- was there for a concert. The statue was completely dressed, in long robes.

This is St. Luke's in McLean. But the focus is still the same in that parish. It is a hard-core Catholic parish. I grew up in it. I am glad it gave me a solid grounding my faith.
This conversation has taken the weirdest turn. I had no idea that Protestants were so squeamish about this. I feel like I am having a conversation with my 2-year-old who doesn't like onions, or something similarly childish and illogical. Like, spiders. Or, ooh, bugs. Grow up, people, and like a previous poster said, do some reading and educating yourself about Catholicism before you bloviate about it. People always say they like to have "open minds" and be "liberal" and "accepting of those who think differently" until it comes to the Catholic Church. It's so crazy to me.

Squeamish? comparing a not liking to see a man nailed to a cross to an 2 year old not liking onions? Seems quite out of touch to me.

What if Christ had been executed in the twentieth century? -- would you feel OK about wearing a pendent with a tiny man tied to an electric chair? What if it were in different historical times and he was tied to a stake with flames engulfing him or leaned over a chopping block with his head freshly removed? Feeling squeamish yet?

But Christ didn't die in the 20th century. He was crucified. And if you spend any time from a young age onward being exposed to religion, art, history, culture, it shouldn't be a new shocking image. [b]

I almost applaud you for thinking you can discredit the crucifix after all his time ... here .. on DCUM.

That's the whole point that's being made -- Christians - especially Catholics - are so used to seeing these gory images that it's not shocking. But the concept of depicting a painful death IS quite shocking when seen in terms of modern methods, whose images are not exploited.

I'm not going to debate this. We hold the image of Christ's crucifixion differently than you do. This little thread isn't even scratching the surface of our differences. I can see that it would be shocking for some, but that reaction isn't universal. Don't know what else to say about it.

Seems like you were fine with debating it, until you ran out of debating points -- which is OK, because religion is ultimately not about who has the best argument -- it's about faith.

I'm sure that's what you believe about me. Very sure.

Not sure I understand - Are you suggesting that for you (and many religious people) religion is not about faith and is more about the best argument?

[Anonymous]

It seems like there are two Catholic points of view presented here (unless it's one person changing her mind).

1. It's weird and immature to feel squeamish about images of Christ dying on the Cross and Catholic kids don’t mind it – don’t even notice it, really.

2. It's right to feel squeamish, because getting in touch with Christ’s horrible suffering that he experienced for all us could encourage people to become Catholic or become better Catholics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like there are two Catholic points of view presented here (unless it's one person changing her mind).

1. It's weird and immature to feel squeamish about images of Christ dying on the Cross and Catholic kids don’t mind it – don’t even notice it, really.

2. It's right to feel squeamish, because getting in touch with Christ’s horrible suffering that he experienced for all us could encourage people to become Catholic or become better Catholics.

Let me clarify something. I am the pp who wrote BOTH of these points of view. And I believe both of them. And I believe both, while appearing contradictory on the surface, can co-exist.

Number one: it is right to feel squeamish, b/c getting in touch with Christ's horrible suffering that HE experienced for all of us is the central tenet of our faith, and yes, could encourage people to explore Catholicism a bit more, whether they are currently Catholics or not.

Number two: to use this as the main reason why one would turn away from Catcholicism, b/c it is a knee-jerk reaction is, while understandable, childish, as if one is afraid to try something new. As if one is afraid to delve into things more, and to think about them in a mature and thoughtful fashion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like there are two Catholic points of view presented here (unless it's one person changing her mind).

1. It's weird and immature to feel squeamish about images of Christ dying on the Cross and Catholic kids don’t mind it – don’t even notice it, really.

2. It's right to feel squeamish, because getting in touch with Christ’s horrible suffering that he experienced for all us could encourage people to become Catholic or become better Catholics.

Let me clarify something. I am the pp who wrote BOTH of these points of view. And I believe both of them. And I believe both, while appearing contradictory on the surface, can co-exist.

Number one: it is right to feel squeamish, b/c getting in touch with Christ's horrible suffering that HE experienced for all of us is the central tenet of our faith, and yes, could encourage people to explore Catholicism a bit more, whether they are currently Catholics or not.

Number two: to use this as the main reason why one would turn away from Catcholicism, b/c it is a knee-jerk reaction is, while understandable, childish, as if one is afraid to try something new. As if one is afraid to delve into things more, and to think about them in a mature and thoughtful fashion.

PS I have to leave the computer now but will check back tomorrow if I can help add any information or shed any light on Catholicism on this thread if it progresses while I am gone. Take care, all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But Christ didn't die in the 20th century. He was crucified. And if you spend any time from a young age onward being exposed to religion, art, history, culture, it shouldn't be a new shocking image.

I almost applaud you for thinking you can discredit the crucifix after all his time ... here .. on DCUM.

The attempt was not to discredit the crucifix, but to put it in perspective, which seems to have been accomplished as per the comment above.