Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.

Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.

I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.

Catholics celebrate the resurrection, all right, but they also focus morbidly on the crucifixion

Okay... and what?

What do you want catholics to do? This is a huge part of the catholic faith and ingrained in its history and tradition.

So what exactly do you want them to do?

No one is asking you to be catholic and focus morbidly on the crucifixion.

history
lol

whose history? Matthew, Mark, Luke or John?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic here, and I"m surprised at the discussion of "gory crosses." Most (not all) of the crucifixes I have seen show very little or no blood. Yes, there are nails through his hands and feet, but no blood showing. In all my years as a Catholic child I never really realized or was told the gory details associated with being crucified. I was well into adulthood before it even occurred to me.

Oh, you've missed out on one of the greatest things about Catholic church history. Love the gory stuff. Nobody does gore like the Catholics. The polychrome sculpture is the best. Well, there's also all the reliquaries with body parts, especially St. Catherine's head in Siena, and St. Anthony's tongue in Padova, with tastebuds still intact!

Don't give me any of that whitewashed vanilla Protestant aesthetic.

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2013/nov/18/st-peters-bones-christian-relics

http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/an-800-year-old-tongue-tours-new-york-st-anthony-s-relics-on-the-anniversary-of-their-discovery

And, yet again, I ask what is your point?

Is someone forcing you at gunpoint to be catholic?
Do you have to study catholicism so a nigerian prince will send you a million dollars?

You don't think you are going to change catholicism do you? Or make a catholic go "Oh gee, I never noticed how gory the church is, guess I'll be an athiest now."

pssst... if you don't like the religion, don't be that religion.

Sorry, you misunderstood my point completely. (I'm not OP, by the way, in case you are mistaking me for her or someone else.) I LOVE the vividness of Catholic imagery. Life is nasty, brutish, and short -- for most people throughout history-- and I love that the church recognizes the physicality of bodies. They bleed, they hurt, they're made of flesh and bones. Ok, so I confess I'm coming at it from an anthropologist's POV, but it is so much more fascinating and appealing than the sanitized Protestant aesthetic. Whenever I go to Europe I seek out those old churches that have relics and lifelike crucifixes and altarpieces showing the martydom of the saints the like. And I love it when I see modern day pilgrims venerating these objects. (Like St. Anthony's tongue in Padua -- there are lines to get in to see it!) It's so compelling and makes such a tangible link to the past. Walking into a modern, stark church with no decoration, that depresses me.

Embrace your church's history!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.

Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.

I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.

Catholics celebrate the resurrection, all right, but they also focus morbidly on the crucifixion

Okay... and what?

What do you want catholics to do? This is a huge part of the catholic faith and ingrained in its history and tradition.

So what exactly do you want them to do?

No one is asking you to be catholic and focus morbidly on the crucifixion.

It's more what I think the Catholics would be better off NOT doing -- and (among other things) that's continuing with the focus on the gory crucifixion. It's like an artifact from an earlier, less humane age that we're stuck with because of all the art and doctrine and ancient images

Also, why would anyone want to defend and continue this gory, antiquated focus? "Just because we've always done it that way and we're used to it and are not bothered by it" doesn't seem like a very good reason or a very good sign for the future of the church in a more open, humane society.

Because its a reflexive reaction to criticism of Catholicism. First denial, then defense, followed by name calling and making demands.

The discussion here has gone from (summarizing) "It's not gory" to "goriness is good" to "you're mean for pointing out the goriness" to "shut up and go away" to "what are you going to do about it?"

There's not much non/former Catholics can do besides acknowledge it and try to communicate concerns to Catholics. The change must come from within, for instance - by changing centuries of tradition and by individual Catholics leaving the church for a more humane, modern environment, whether tha by a different denomination or no church at all.

Are you part of an organized religion? What is your faith background?

[Anonymous]

Sorry, you misunderstood my point completely. (I'm not OP, by the way, in case you are mistaking me for her or someone else.) I LOVE the vividness of Catholic imagery. Life is nasty, brutish, and short -- for most people throughout history-- and I love that the church recognizes the physicality of bodies. They bleed, they hurt, they're made of flesh and bones. Ok, so I confess I'm coming at it from an anthropologist's POV, but it is so much more fascinating and appealing than the sanitized Protestant aesthetic. Whenever I go to Europe I seek out those old churches that have relics and lifelike crucifixes and altarpieces showing the martydom of the saints the like. And I love it when I see modern day pilgrims venerating these objects. (Like St. Anthony's tongue in Padua -- there are lines to get in to see it!) It's so compelling and makes such a tangible link to the past. Walking into a modern, stark church with no decoration, that depresses me.

Embrace your church's history!

St. Anthony - ew
And I say this as a former Catholic who's still very much Italian!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, you misunderstood my point completely. (I'm not OP, by the way, in case you are mistaking me for her or someone else.) I LOVE the vividness of Catholic imagery. Life is nasty, brutish, and short -- for most people throughout history-- and I love that the church recognizes the physicality of bodies. They bleed, they hurt, they're made of flesh and bones. Ok, so I confess I'm coming at it from an anthropologist's POV, but it is so much more fascinating and appealing than the sanitized Protestant aesthetic. Whenever I go to Europe I seek out those old churches that have relics and lifelike crucifixes and altarpieces showing the martydom of the saints the like. And I love it when I see modern day pilgrims venerating these objects. (Like St. Anthony's tongue in Padua -- there are lines to get in to see it!) It's so compelling and makes such a tangible link to the past. Walking into a modern, stark church with no decoration, that depresses me.

Embrace your church's history!

St. Anthony - ew
And I say this as a former Catholic who's still very much Italian!

My boys would actually ask to go to mass if it were this interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, you misunderstood my point completely. (I'm not OP, by the way, in case you are mistaking me for her or someone else.) I LOVE the vividness of Catholic imagery. Life is nasty, brutish, and short -- for most people throughout history-- and I love that the church recognizes the physicality of bodies. They bleed, they hurt, they're made of flesh and bones. Ok, so I confess I'm coming at it from an anthropologist's POV, but it is so much more fascinating and appealing than the sanitized Protestant aesthetic. Whenever I go to Europe I seek out those old churches that have relics and lifelike crucifixes and altarpieces showing the martydom of the saints the like. And I love it when I see modern day pilgrims venerating these objects. (Like St. Anthony's tongue in Padua -- there are lines to get in to see it!) It's so compelling and makes such a tangible link to the past. Walking into a modern, stark church with no decoration, that depresses me.

Embrace your church's history!

St. Anthony - ew
And I say this as a former Catholic who's still very much Italian!

My boys would actually ask to go to mass if it were this interesting.

+1 LOL

I took my DS to Paris and the two things we loved best were the catacombs and the sewer ride. The catacombs in Paris, unlike those in Rome, were actually constructed from bones from a cemetery as a tourist attraction in the 18th century.

I don't get why so many are saying the depictions of how brutish life can be are antiquated. Torture is still a very real thing throughout the world and, yes, not just among third world perpetrators but also some that are purely US of A.

Thus, I don't find it offensive to have reminders in church of human cruelty that is still very much a present day reality. A sanitized religion in an unsanitized world seems incongruous to me.

[Anonymous]

Should have read "he loved best."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, you misunderstood my point completely. (I'm not OP, by the way, in case you are mistaking me for her or someone else.) I LOVE the vividness of Catholic imagery. Life is nasty, brutish, and short -- for most people throughout history-- and I love that the church recognizes the physicality of bodies. They bleed, they hurt, they're made of flesh and bones. Ok, so I confess I'm coming at it from an anthropologist's POV, but it is so much more fascinating and appealing than the sanitized Protestant aesthetic. Whenever I go to Europe I seek out those old churches that have relics and lifelike crucifixes and altarpieces showing the martydom of the saints the like. And I love it when I see modern day pilgrims venerating these objects. (Like St. Anthony's tongue in Padua -- there are lines to get in to see it!) It's so compelling and makes such a tangible link to the past. Walking into a modern, stark church with no decoration, that depresses me.

Embrace your church's history!

St. Anthony - ew
And I say this as a former Catholic who's still very much Italian!

My boys would actually ask to go to mass if it were this interesting.

+1 LOL

I took my DS to Paris and the two things we loved best were the catacombs and the sewer ride. The catacombs in Paris, unlike those in Rome, were actually constructed from bones from a cemetery as a tourist attraction in the 18th century.

I don't get why so many are saying the depictions of how brutish life can be are antiquated. Torture is still a very real thing throughout the world and, yes, not just among third world perpetrators but also some that are purely US of A.

Thus, I don't find it offensive to have reminders in church of human cruelty that is still very much a present day reality. A sanitized religion in an unsanitized world seems incongruous to me.

sanitized religion?

lol

Religions are often CAUSES of war!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, you misunderstood my point completely. (I'm not OP, by the way, in case you are mistaking me for her or someone else.) I LOVE the vividness of Catholic imagery. Life is nasty, brutish, and short -- for most people throughout history-- and I love that the church recognizes the physicality of bodies. They bleed, they hurt, they're made of flesh and bones. Ok, so I confess I'm coming at it from an anthropologist's POV, but it is so much more fascinating and appealing than the sanitized Protestant aesthetic. Whenever I go to Europe I seek out those old churches that have relics and lifelike crucifixes and altarpieces showing the martydom of the saints the like. And I love it when I see modern day pilgrims venerating these objects. (Like St. Anthony's tongue in Padua -- there are lines to get in to see it!) It's so compelling and makes such a tangible link to the past. Walking into a modern, stark church with no decoration, that depresses me.

Embrace your church's history!

St. Anthony - ew
And I say this as a former Catholic who's still very much Italian!

My boys would actually ask to go to mass if it were this interesting.

+1 LOL

I took my DS to Paris and the two things we loved best were the catacombs and the sewer ride. The catacombs in Paris, unlike those in Rome, were actually constructed from bones from a cemetery as a tourist attraction in the 18th century.

I don't get why so many are saying the depictions of how brutish life can be are antiquated. Torture is still a very real thing throughout the world and, yes, not just among third world perpetrators but also some that are purely US of A.

Thus, I don't find it offensive to have reminders in church of human cruelty that is still very much a present day reality. A sanitized religion in an unsanitized world seems incongruous to me.

Would you be in favor of bringing torture equipment from the inquisition into churches?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, you misunderstood my point completely. (I'm not OP, by the way, in case you are mistaking me for her or someone else.) I LOVE the vividness of Catholic imagery. Life is nasty, brutish, and short -- for most people throughout history-- and I love that the church recognizes the physicality of bodies. They bleed, they hurt, they're made of flesh and bones. Ok, so I confess I'm coming at it from an anthropologist's POV, but it is so much more fascinating and appealing than the sanitized Protestant aesthetic. Whenever I go to Europe I seek out those old churches that have relics and lifelike crucifixes and altarpieces showing the martydom of the saints the like. And I love it when I see modern day pilgrims venerating these objects. (Like St. Anthony's tongue in Padua -- there are lines to get in to see it!) It's so compelling and makes such a tangible link to the past. Walking into a modern, stark church with no decoration, that depresses me.

Embrace your church's history!

St. Anthony - ew
And I say this as a former Catholic who's still very much Italian!

My boys would actually ask to go to mass if it were this interesting.

+1 LOL

I took my DS to Paris and the two things we loved best were the catacombs and the sewer ride. The catacombs in Paris, unlike those in Rome, were actually constructed from bones from a cemetery as a tourist attraction in the 18th century.

I don't get why so many are saying the depictions of how brutish life can be are antiquated. Torture is still a very real thing throughout the world and, yes, not just among third world perpetrators but also some that are purely US of A.

Thus, I don't find it offensive to have reminders in church of human cruelty that is still very much a present day reality. A sanitized religion in an unsanitized world seems incongruous to me.

Would you be in favor of bringing torture equipment from the inquisition into churches?

And loin clothes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, you misunderstood my point completely. (I'm not OP, by the way, in case you are mistaking me for her or someone else.) I LOVE the vividness of Catholic imagery. Life is nasty, brutish, and short -- for most people throughout history-- and I love that the church recognizes the physicality of bodies. They bleed, they hurt, they're made of flesh and bones. Ok, so I confess I'm coming at it from an anthropologist's POV, but it is so much more fascinating and appealing than the sanitized Protestant aesthetic. Whenever I go to Europe I seek out those old churches that have relics and lifelike crucifixes and altarpieces showing the martydom of the saints the like. And I love it when I see modern day pilgrims venerating these objects. (Like St. Anthony's tongue in Padua -- there are lines to get in to see it!) It's so compelling and makes such a tangible link to the past. Walking into a modern, stark church with no decoration, that depresses me.

Embrace your church's history!

St. Anthony - ew
And I say this as a former Catholic who's still very much Italian!

My boys would actually ask to go to mass if it were this interesting.

Gotta say that my boys would, too. I think they'd also get a kick out of watching Fundie snake handling, lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, you misunderstood my point completely. (I'm not OP, by the way, in case you are mistaking me for her or someone else.) I LOVE the vividness of Catholic imagery. Life is nasty, brutish, and short -- for most people throughout history-- and I love that the church recognizes the physicality of bodies. They bleed, they hurt, they're made of flesh and bones. Ok, so I confess I'm coming at it from an anthropologist's POV, but it is so much more fascinating and appealing than the sanitized Protestant aesthetic. Whenever I go to Europe I seek out those old churches that have relics and lifelike crucifixes and altarpieces showing the martydom of the saints the like. And I love it when I see modern day pilgrims venerating these objects. (Like St. Anthony's tongue in Padua -- there are lines to get in to see it!) It's so compelling and makes such a tangible link to the past. Walking into a modern, stark church with no decoration, that depresses me.

Embrace your church's history!

St. Anthony - ew
And I say this as a former Catholic who's still very much Italian!

My boys would actually ask to go to mass if it were this interesting.

+1 LOL

I took my DS to Paris and the two things we loved best were the catacombs and the sewer ride. The catacombs in Paris, unlike those in Rome, were actually constructed from bones from a cemetery as a tourist attraction in the 18th century.

I don't get why so many are saying the depictions of how brutish life can be are antiquated. Torture is still a very real thing throughout the world and, yes, not just among third world perpetrators but also some that are purely US of A.

Thus, I don't find it offensive to have reminders in church of human cruelty that is still very much a present day reality. A sanitized religion in an unsanitized world seems incongruous to me.

Would you be in favor of bringing torture equipment from the inquisition into churches?

And loin clothes.

Only Jesus can wear a loin cloth. All other men must wear pants that cover the knees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, you misunderstood my point completely. (I'm not OP, by the way, in case you are mistaking me for her or someone else.) I LOVE the vividness of Catholic imagery. Life is nasty, brutish, and short -- for most people throughout history-- and I love that the church recognizes the physicality of bodies. They bleed, they hurt, they're made of flesh and bones. Ok, so I confess I'm coming at it from an anthropologist's POV, but it is so much more fascinating and appealing than the sanitized Protestant aesthetic. Whenever I go to Europe I seek out those old churches that have relics and lifelike crucifixes and altarpieces showing the martydom of the saints the like. And I love it when I see modern day pilgrims venerating these objects. (Like St. Anthony's tongue in Padua -- there are lines to get in to see it!) It's so compelling and makes such a tangible link to the past. Walking into a modern, stark church with no decoration, that depresses me.

Embrace your church's history!

St. Anthony - ew
And I say this as a former Catholic who's still very much Italian!

My boys would actually ask to go to mass if it were this interesting.

dinosaur bones would entice the kids too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, you misunderstood my point completely. (I'm not OP, by the way, in case you are mistaking me for her or someone else.) I LOVE the vividness of Catholic imagery. Life is nasty, brutish, and short -- for most people throughout history-- and I love that the church recognizes the physicality of bodies. They bleed, they hurt, they're made of flesh and bones. Ok, so I confess I'm coming at it from an anthropologist's POV, but it is so much more fascinating and appealing than the sanitized Protestant aesthetic. Whenever I go to Europe I seek out those old churches that have relics and lifelike crucifixes and altarpieces showing the martydom of the saints the like. And I love it when I see modern day pilgrims venerating these objects. (Like St. Anthony's tongue in Padua -- there are lines to get in to see it!) It's so compelling and makes such a tangible link to the past. Walking into a modern, stark church with no decoration, that depresses me.

Embrace your church's history!

St. Anthony - ew
And I say this as a former Catholic who's still very much Italian!

My boys would actually ask to go to mass if it were this interesting.

+1 LOL

I took my DS to Paris and the two things we loved best were the catacombs and the sewer ride. The catacombs in Paris, unlike those in Rome, were actually constructed from bones from a cemetery as a tourist attraction in the 18th century.

I don't get why so many are saying the depictions of how brutish life can be are antiquated. Torture is still a very real thing throughout the world and, yes, not just among third world perpetrators but also some that are purely US of A.

Thus, I don't find it offensive to have reminders in church of human cruelty that is still very much a present day reality. A sanitized religion in an unsanitized world seems incongruous to me.

Would you be in favor of bringing torture equipment from the inquisition into churches?

And loin clothes.

Only Jesus can wear a loin cloth. All other men must wear pants that cover the knees.

What about Tarzan?

[Anonymous]

I am so tired of the Catholic bashers here. Go to your own schismatic church, or your jewish temple and be gone!