Do you believe in Hell?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When you die, you just die. There's nothig afterwards. You don't get rewards for being good or punishment for being bad. Why do you all need to cling to an imagined afterlife to make your lives on earth meaningful? You all sound so sad.

Many people were taught to believe these things as children, and in many ways, our majority Christian society supports these beliefs, so it can be hard to look at them with adult eyes.

How above it all you are with your adult ways.

Sorry but people who believe in heaven and hell sound incredibly childish away. It's a step above believing in Santa and his list of who's naughty and nice. Really, it's the same damn thing. Probably it's a step below believing in Santa because at least people grow out of that.

Aw, and we had such a nice break from this line of bigotry over the last week or so.

pp is blunt, but there is nothing bigoted about these remarks

BIGOT: def. a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)

Emphasis on unfairly. Reasons seem fair to me. Also I don't hate anyone or even necessarily dislike them. I think they are childish. You don't appear to like me particularly but that doesn't make you a bigot either.

But hey if it makes you feel better to think everyone who disagrees with you is a bigot, knock yourself out.

Of course the reasons seem fair to you. I thought atheists were supposed to appreciate others in a way that we religious people can't, or won't. Let me guess, there are some acceptable differences to embrace (dress, food, secular cultural traditions, skin color) and then there's religion.

"Humanists" often reveal themselves as more judgmental and dismissive than most believers.

You guessed wrong. Anyway, I'm curious what would be the acceptable non-bigoted opinion about someone belief in a flaming hell where all the bad people (and non-believers like me) burn for eternity? Childish seems to be pretty generous!

Oh, but I don't believe that about nonbelievers. A lot of posters here don't. But there you go with your broad brush. You were making encompassing negative assumptions based on one identifying element of a person (belief system). Hmmm. Sounds like a bigot to me.

No I wasn't. The belief is childish. What other "encompassing negative" things did I say? Did I say they beat their children and don't pay their taxes? Plenty of religious people are perfectly nice. And my "broad brush" view of hell is a popular one. But feel free to share your view that's supposedly so different.

"PEOPLE who believe in heaven and hell sound incredibly childish" is what you said earlier. Along with them being a step above believing Santa maintains a Naughty and Nice list. Now you're saying the belief is childish, oh and there are plenty of "perfectly nice" religious people, too.

I will give you this, you did NOT say they beat their children. So there's that.

Let me clarify for your that obvi they sound childish to me WHEN expressing that belief. That should be obvious, but you seem slow. I'm not saying I can tell from a cashier's "childish" voice or something that they believe in hell. The comparison with Santa seems to really offend you, but it's a perfect analogy. These people are good and get rewards... These people are bad and get coal (maybe brought up from the fires of hell, lol!).

Christians don't believe they're good and deserve Heaven. We're all worse than we should be. We only believe we're forgiven by Christ and are given Heaven as a gift out of God's love and mercy.

Right but you're good because you believe and get the benefit of his mercy while those that don't believe don't. Or do you think everyone goes to heaven and there is no hell?

Oh, there's a hell, all right. That's part of believing. But the offer is open to all. Repent, and believe the Gospel!

Riiiiiiiight. So we're back to those that don't take up the offer are bad so get punished eternally for it.

[Anonymous]

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Um, no. I think the PP was trying to say I think people who believe in hell are all-around childish in their lives or something. She highlighted the word "people" as if that's what she meant. I'm saying, they could be fine in other aspects of their lives. I'm not saying your belief in hell taints your entire being. I'm saying the belief is childish and accordingly they sound childish when they express that belief.

Obviously if you never express belief, I don't know what you believe! But I still in the abstract think the belief is childish.

You are a better communicator than pp. I still think pp has a generally low opinion of those who believe in a higher power and that she was backpedaling furiously. But just as we disagree about my beliefs being childish, she and I will have to agree to disagree that she's a bigot.

You're confusing who the "PP" is. I'm the one who you are quoting as a good communicator AND the one who you think is backpedaling. So yeah, you really have reading comprehension problems and it's probably easier for you to stick to thinking I'm a bigot.

That's funny, because you were actually talking to ME as of I were another person, too. And yeah, I'll absolutely stick to my conclusion that you're a bigot.

Except my mistake didn't impact anything I said or my logic whereas you were both complementing and criticizing me in the same breath! Hilarious! You have no idea what a bigot actually is if you thinking one patricular aspect of religious belief is childish. You must go through life thinking you're surrounded by bigots. Really sad.

I can compliment (look it up) a post without accepting your argument about judgment. Mechanics vs substance. HILARIOUS!!! By the way, how did any of my posts contradict one another?

And I do have an idea what a bigot is (technically, that is, not just an example: you) because I'm the one who posted the definition earlier. Keep up.

[Anonymous]

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Um, no. I think the PP was trying to say I think people who believe in hell are all-around childish in their lives or something. She highlighted the word "people" as if that's what she meant. I'm saying, they could be fine in other aspects of their lives. I'm not saying your belief in hell taints your entire being. I'm saying the belief is childish and accordingly they sound childish when they express that belief.

Obviously if you never express belief, I don't know what you believe! But I still in the abstract think the belief is childish.

You are a better communicator than pp. I still think pp has a generally low opinion of those who believe in a higher power and that she was backpedaling furiously. But just as we disagree about my beliefs being childish, she and I will have to agree to disagree that she's a bigot.

to immediate pp -- think what you will, but I suspect you were unexpectedly hurt by the some of the opinions expressed here that went against your beliefs and would just like to dismiss them as bigoted instead of considering that your beliefs might be childish at some level - or to accept that some people can think that without being bigoted

A lot of people these days aren't accustomed to having their religious beliefs openly challenged or disagreed with. I think it's a god thing that that is changing, just as I think it's good that attitudes (and practices, and laws) relating to women and racial minorities and sexual minorities are changing. There are bumps along the way, but that's always the way with social change.

[Anonymous]

NP here. I would agree that the punishment/reward view of morals is unsophisticated and primitive. I don't think that makes me a bigot because it applies to multiple religions and people across countries. It's my view of an idea, not of a person apart from the idea.

[Anonymous]

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Right but you're good because you believe and get the benefit of his mercy while those that don't believe don't. Or do you think everyone goes to heaven and there is no hell?

Oh, there's a hell, all right. That's part of believing. But the offer is open to all. Repent, and believe the Gospel!

Riiiiiiiight. So we're back to those that don't take up the offer are bad so get punished eternally for it.

not pp. You are not bad, not punished. You just close the door on anything more than emptiness. That's my take on it.

[Anonymous]

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Um, no. I think the PP was trying to say I think people who believe in hell are all-around childish in their lives or something. She highlighted the word "people" as if that's what she meant. I'm saying, they could be fine in other aspects of their lives. I'm not saying your belief in hell taints your entire being. I'm saying the belief is childish and accordingly they sound childish when they express that belief.

Obviously if you never express belief, I don't know what you believe! But I still in the abstract think the belief is childish.

You are a better communicator than pp. I still think pp has a generally low opinion of those who believe in a higher power and that she was backpedaling furiously. But just as we disagree about my beliefs being childish, she and I will have to agree to disagree that she's a bigot.

You're confusing who the "PP" is. I'm the one who you are quoting as a good communicator AND the one who you think is backpedaling. So yeah, you really have reading comprehension problems and it's probably easier for you to stick to thinking I'm a bigot.

That's funny, because you were actually talking to ME as of I were another person, too. And yeah, I'll absolutely stick to my conclusion that you're a bigot.

Except my mistake didn't impact anything I said or my logic whereas you were both complementing and criticizing me in the same breath! Hilarious! You have no idea what a bigot actually is if you thinking one patricular aspect of religious belief is childish. You must go through life thinking you're surrounded by bigots. Really sad.

I can compliment (look it up) a post without accepting your argument about judgment. Mechanics vs substance. HILARIOUS!!! By the way, how did any of my posts contradict one another?

And I do have an idea what a bigot is (technically, that is, not just an example: you) because I'm the one who posted the definition earlier. Keep up.

Ooooooh, you caught a spelling error! Good for you! You telling me that I'm a good communicator but that you suspect "PP" (not me!) has a low opinion of believers is pretty inconsistent. And just because you copy and paste a definition doesn't mean you understand it. You clearly don't. Sorry to break it to you but I don't have a generally low view of believers. They come in all stripes and many of them don't believe in hell. I do however have a low opinion of you! Though because I actually understand what it means, I don't (in the evidence before me!) think you're a bigot. And since you believe in hell, might I suggest you go there?

[Anonymous]

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Um, no. I think the PP was trying to say I think people who believe in hell are all-around childish in their lives or something. She highlighted the word "people" as if that's what she meant. I'm saying, they could be fine in other aspects of their lives. I'm not saying your belief in hell taints your entire being. I'm saying the belief is childish and accordingly they sound childish when they express that belief.

Obviously if you never express belief, I don't know what you believe! But I still in the abstract think the belief is childish.

You are a better communicator than pp. I still think pp has a generally low opinion of those who believe in a higher power and that she was backpedaling furiously. But just as we disagree about my beliefs being childish, she and I will have to agree to disagree that she's a bigot.

You're confusing who the "PP" is. I'm the one who you are quoting as a good communicator AND the one who you think is backpedaling. So yeah, you really have reading comprehension problems and it's probably easier for you to stick to thinking I'm a bigot.

That's funny, because you were actually talking to ME as of I were another person, too. And yeah, I'll absolutely stick to my conclusion that you're a bigot.

Except my mistake didn't impact anything I said or my logic whereas you were both complementing and criticizing me in the same breath! Hilarious! You have no idea what a bigot actually is if you thinking one patricular aspect of religious belief is childish. You must go through life thinking you're surrounded by bigots. Really sad.

I can compliment (look it up) a post without accepting your argument about judgment. Mechanics vs substance. HILARIOUS!!! By the way, how did any of my posts contradict one another?

And I do have an idea what a bigot is (technically, that is, not just an example: you) because I'm the one who posted the definition earlier. Keep up.

Ooooooh, you caught a spelling error! Good for you! You telling me that I'm a good communicator but that you suspect "PP" (not me!) has a low opinion of believers is pretty inconsistent. And just because you copy and paste a definition doesn't mean you understand it. You clearly don't. Sorry to break it to you but I don't have a generally low view of believers. They come in all stripes and many of them don't believe in hell. I do however have a low opinion of you! Though because I actually understand what it means, I don't (in the evidence before me!) think you're a bigot. And since you believe in hell, might I suggest you go there?

How does saying you're a good communicator in one post (mechanics) and pointing out that you have a low opinion of believers (substance) mean I'm inconsistent? I suspect you're really not bright and you operate under the power of a sense of self, and that ego has been pulling you along (and dragging you down) for a good part of your life.

I am choosing to view you as a work in progress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Ooooooh, you caught a spelling error! Good for you! You telling me that I'm a good communicator but that you suspect "PP" (not me!) has a low opinion of believers is pretty inconsistent. And just because you copy and paste a definition doesn't mean you understand it. You clearly don't. Sorry to break it to you but I don't have a generally low view of believers. They come in all stripes and many of them don't believe in hell. I do however have a low opinion of you! Though because I actually understand what it means, I don't (in the evidence before me!) think you're a bigot. And since you believe in hell, might I suggest you go there?

By the way, this goes right back to the beginning where you said you judge people based on their belief in hell. Not that you judge the belief itself, as you tried to rewrite later, but the people who hold that belief.

[Anonymous]

Yes, it's DC

[Anonymous]

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Um, no. I think the PP was trying to say I think people who believe in hell are all-around childish in their lives or something. She highlighted the word "people" as if that's what she meant. I'm saying, they could be fine in other aspects of their lives. I'm not saying your belief in hell taints your entire being. I'm saying the belief is childish and accordingly they sound childish when they express that belief.

Obviously if you never express belief, I don't know what you believe! But I still in the abstract think the belief is childish.

You are a better communicator than pp. I still think pp has a generally low opinion of those who believe in a higher power and that she was backpedaling furiously. But just as we disagree about my beliefs being childish, she and I will have to agree to disagree that she's a bigot.

You're confusing who the "PP" is. I'm the one who you are quoting as a good communicator AND the one who you think is backpedaling. So yeah, you really have reading comprehension problems and it's probably easier for you to stick to thinking I'm a bigot.

That's funny, because you were actually talking to ME as of I were another person, too. And yeah, I'll absolutely stick to my conclusion that you're a bigot.

Except my mistake didn't impact anything I said or my logic whereas you were both complementing and criticizing me in the same breath! Hilarious! You have no idea what a bigot actually is if you thinking one patricular aspect of religious belief is childish. You must go through life thinking you're surrounded by bigots. Really sad.

I can compliment (look it up) a post without accepting your argument about judgment. Mechanics vs substance. HILARIOUS!!! By the way, how did any of my posts contradict one another?

And I do have an idea what a bigot is (technically, that is, not just an example: you) because I'm the one who posted the definition earlier. Keep up.

Ooooooh, you caught a spelling error! Good for you! You telling me that I'm a good communicator but that you suspect "PP" (not me!) has a low opinion of believers is pretty inconsistent. And just because you copy and paste a definition doesn't mean you understand it. You clearly don't. Sorry to break it to you but I don't have a generally low view of believers. They come in all stripes and many of them don't believe in hell. I do however have a low opinion of you! Though because I actually understand what it means, I don't (in the evidence before me!) think you're a bigot. And since you believe in hell, might I suggest you go there?

How does saying you're a good communicator in one post (mechanics) and pointing out that you have a low opinion of believers (substance) mean I'm inconsistent? I suspect you're really not bright and you operate under the power of a sense of self, and that ego has been pulling you along (and dragging you down) for a good part of your life.

I am choosing to view you as a work in progress.

In the very post you complemented, I expressed the same view that a belief in hell is childish! You said nothing about that. Then you babbled on about the PP. You keep going on about mechanics versus substance. Whatever -- if you look at the posts it was clear I was the same person (unlike with your posts that you criticized me for). That's your reading comprehension problem. Back to the issue. I'm not a bigot because I think a belief in hell is childish. You just can't stand being criticized. THAT is ego.

[Anonymous]

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Ooooooh, you caught a spelling error! Good for you! You telling me that I'm a good communicator but that you suspect "PP" (not me!) has a low opinion of believers is pretty inconsistent. And just because you copy and paste a definition doesn't mean you understand it. You clearly don't. Sorry to break it to you but I don't have a generally low view of believers. They come in all stripes and many of them don't believe in hell. I do however have a low opinion of you! Though because I actually understand what it means, I don't (in the evidence before me!) think you're a bigot. And since you believe in hell, might I suggest you go there?

By the way, this goes right back to the beginning where you said you judge people based on their belief in hell. Not that you judge the belief itself, as you tried to rewrite later, but the people who hold that belief.

Your attempt to read into what I said is tiresome. Yes, I judge people who hold that belief. This is the judgment: your belief is childish and you sound childish when you express it.

[Anonymous]

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How does saying you're a good communicator in one post (mechanics) and pointing out that you have a low opinion of believers (substance) mean I'm inconsistent? I suspect you're really not bright and you operate under the power of a sense of self, and that ego has been pulling you along (and dragging you down) for a good part of your life.

I am choosing to view you as a work in progress.

Different poster here -- this sounds petty and mean and -- childish

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
How does saying you're a good communicator in one post (mechanics) and pointing out that you have a low opinion of believers (substance) mean I'm inconsistent? I suspect you're really not bright and you operate under the power of a sense of self, and that ego has been pulling you along (and dragging you down) for a good part of your life.

I am choosing to view you as a work in progress.

Different poster here -- this sounds petty and mean and -- childish

You're right. I apologize, pp.

[Anonymous]

Some people create their own Hell on earth.

No, I don't believe in Hell in the traditional sense.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
How does saying you're a good communicator in one post (mechanics) and pointing out that you have a low opinion of believers (substance) mean I'm inconsistent? I suspect you're really not bright and you operate under the power of a sense of self, and that ego has been pulling you along (and dragging you down) for a good part of your life.

I am choosing to view you as a work in progress.

Different poster here -- this sounds petty and mean and -- childish

You're right. I apologize, pp.

I'm DP above, and appreciate this