Being lower middle class and living well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm very frugal. I think OP should spend a little more enjoying life. She is going to regret being 20 and not enjoying a happy hour or cheap ethnic food with friends. Her life sounds too lame. She should allocate 200-400 a month to having fun.

The OP sounds like she is already living the good life.

It sounds like she socializes plenty. She cooks tasty meals, she lives with people who share her financial philosophy, who also socialize together. What's nicer than cooking a good meal and then eating outdoors together picnic style? She wines and dines with clients via her job as necessary. She goes on romantic dates with her boyfriend and has potlucks for friends and she also goes to bars with them.

And don't forget she walks everywhere. The OP is getting free exercise, fresh air and is out and about and not cooped up in an expensive luxury vehicle that carries an exorbitant car payment. She also partakes in free DC cultural activities. She sounds smart, sociable and content to me.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Wow from the posts it makes me reconsider having children. Life is so great saving 50 percent of our net,maxing out retirement and trveling. Having kids sounds like it blows.

It does. However, most of us just acquire a taste for suffering.

Yeah I doubt having kids is worth going back to work with stitches still in my vagina and having to spend all the money on crap you people say is mandatory. Screw that.

Why are you on this board? Go hang out on a non-parenting forun you loser.

You're the loser who went back to work with stitches or sent your wife back to work and spend thousands on stupid shit for kids who will grow up and not even like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Wow from the posts it makes me reconsider having children. Life is so great saving 50 percent of our net,maxing out retirement and trveling. Having kids sounds like it blows.

It does. However, most of us just acquire a taste for suffering.

Yeah I doubt having kids is worth going back to work with stitches still in my vagina and having to spend all the money on crap you people say is mandatory. Screw that.

Why are you on this board? Go hang out on a non-parenting forun you loser.

You're the loser who went back to work with stitches or sent your wife back to work and spend thousands on stupid shit for kids who will grow up and not even like you.

Take this argument to a different thread.

[Anonymous]

OP, where in the hell are you working for so little? Are you doing document review or other low lever work? I'm a legal secretary (ie, no law degree) at nowhere near a big law firm (~40 employees total including all staff) and make close to $55k. Find a better paying job.

[Anonymous]

"Would still hopefully have a job that pays all health and dental insurance for family."

LMAO! Please list the two employers in town that will still cover the full cost of a low deductible family health plan.

At my current job I would have to pay $600/month to add one family member; at my former job, it was $1200.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You-all are amusing. There's no need to grab drinks and snacks when you are out with the kids. Contrary to popular opinion, children can go more than 2 hours without eating. Or drinking. If they get cranky, that is your poor parenting blaming your lax discipline on your children.

You cook. Take out is freaking ridiculous---if you're tired, scramble some eggs, call it supper. You actually can clean your own house. Get rid of 2/3 of the crap, or don't buy it in the first place, and the house will be cleaner. Especially toys. You really don't need them beyond some blocks.

+1

I agree. I never order take-out or buy individually packaged snacks - these types of food are incredibly expensive for their weight and nutritionally not worth the price. We hardly ever eat out, but when we do, it's to good (non-junk type) restaurants, since we want to be able to enjoy something great that we can't make at home.
We travel light when we go on outings, except if we pack a picnic lunch. Three meals a day is plenty, no need for snacks and drinks at all hours (you can pack a cheerio snack for a toddler).

In short, buy quality over quantity and get your money's worth.

[Anonymous]

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Congratulations, OP - I did the same a long time ago.
Now I live with DH and 2 kids in a tiny but cute little dollhouse that still cost a fortune because it's in one of the better school districts. We could afford it on our middle class salary because we had lived frugally like you and had economized and invested successfully in the stock market.

Now we still live very frugally.

Our main expenses are the mortgage and food.
Our disposable income goes to extra-curricular activities for the kids and traveling to see our families overseas.

Keep saving, OP, and make what you can of your career, because kids are expensive.

The voice of experience. It is quite doable!

I'm the PP who lived like you. When DH and I got married and had DC1, we earned 60K total gross income, and all our money went to daycare. One bedroom apartment, which we kept until DC2 was a year old.
Now our gross HHI is 120K, I stay home, and we max out retirement and college savings plus have a little left over for travel to Europe and Asia every few years. But daily, we live a frugal lifestyle which my friends cannot probably imagine. The trick is to never spend spontaneously. Everything is budgeted and planned for, and with that comes a sense of control and satisfaction. Instead of feeling submerged by expenses and jealous of what others earn, I feel empowered by the good financial choices we make and how most of our money is invested.

Whet do you live and where does DH work? And what happens if he is laid off?

We live in Bethesda. DH was laid off during the recession, and thanks to our savings we kept going frugally until he found another job.

[Anonymous]

I'm the OP! I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread but let me just apologize if my post was misconstrued. It was not directed at the conscientious savers who live reasonably and have to account for many expenses, but I luk in various DCUM forums a lot and it seems to me that many people here are indeed out of touch with reality. There are people here who earn $170k got a family of four and say they struggle but the only place where I'd see a legitimate struggle there is saving for college (college is too expensive now) and having to cover health costs if your insurance doesn't extend to the kids, which would suck.

Also I do max out my 401 and Roth ira from the amount I save each month and the rest goes into the savings account.

I could invest in stocks I know but up be honest I'm not good at evaluating stocks and wouldn't know how to do it, so I don't want to risk losing my money. And I don't want to pay a broker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Congratulations, OP - I did the same a long time ago.
Now I live with DH and 2 kids in a tiny but cute little dollhouse that still cost a fortune because it's in one of the better school districts. We could afford it on our middle class salary because we had lived frugally like you and had economized and invested successfully in the stock market.

Now we still live very frugally.

Our main expenses are the mortgage and food.
Our disposable income goes to extra-curricular activities for the kids and traveling to see our families overseas.

Keep saving, OP, and make what you can of your career, because kids are expensive.

The voice of experience. It is quite doable!

I'm the PP who lived like you. When DH and I got married and had DC1, we earned 60K total gross income, and all our money went to daycare. One bedroom apartment, which we kept until DC2 was a year old.
Now our gross HHI is 120K, I stay home, and we max out retirement and college savings plus have a little left over for travel to Europe and Asia every few years. But daily, we live a frugal lifestyle which my friends cannot probably imagine. The trick is to never spend spontaneously. Everything is budgeted and planned for, and with that comes a sense of control and satisfaction. Instead of feeling submerged by expenses and jealous of what others earn, I feel empowered by the good financial choices we make and how most of our money is invested.

Whet do you live and where does DH work? And what happens if he is laid off?

We live in Bethesda. DH was laid off during the recession, and thanks to our savings we kept going frugally until he found another job.

So you are raising a family in a one bedroom apartment? B/c on 120k buying even a two bedroom condo in Bethesda is hard unless you have family money.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Report back after you are married and have kids.

This is a NP - of course things are going to change when OP has kids. However, her frugal ways will benefit her greatly once she is married with kids. I say this a frugal single parent. We are going just fine on an income that most of DCUM would find completely abysmal. OP will make it work because she knows how to be frugal and knows what is really important in life. Not money and material items.

Another NP single mom-- I also raise my kids on an income that's far below what DCUM has declared enough for ONE person. We're not living large, by any means, and of course, I'd love to have more money. But, we live in a safe, friendly neighborhood with good public schools. Our house is very small; our car is inexpensive but safe. When I come home tired from work, I make something quick, or I heat up something I prepared in advance. We do go out to eat a few times a month, but I don't do takeout. Not everyone is the same, DCUM.

Where is this magical neighborhood, and how long is your commute?

Old Greenbelt, and about 20 minutes.

I work in greenbelt. Safe and good schools are very relative; you have some of the best of PG for what that is worth. How old are you kids? What is your plan they don't get into Roosevelt High?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP! I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread but let me just apologize if my post was misconstrued. It was not directed at the conscientious savers who live reasonably and have to account for many expenses, but I luk in various DCUM forums a lot and it seems to me that many people here are indeed out of touch with reality. There are people here who earn $170k got a family of four and say they struggle but the only place where I'd see a legitimate struggle there is saving for college (college is too expensive now) and having to cover health costs if your insurance doesn't extend to the kids, which would suck.

Also I do max out my 401 and Roth ira from the amount I save each month and the rest goes into the savings account.

I could invest in stocks I know but up be honest I'm not good at evaluating stocks and wouldn't know how to do it, so I don't want to risk losing my money. And I don't want to pay a broker.

You aren't in the stock market at all? Huge mistake. Also how c an you be maxing your 401k and an ira at just 1400 a month? Thhat is not maxing out.

It is great you are so frugal, but you need to run the numbet for kids before you act so superior. Childcare alone for an infant will be over 1400 in this area. The fact is that being lower income around here generally means having to compromise on something: school quality, home ownership, commute, savings, if not all of these things. Plus your crappy law firm may not be all that friendly to working mothers.

Being single and childless gives you so much more financial freedom and stability than you can even comprehend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report back after you are married and have kids.

This is a NP - of course things are going to change when OP has kids. However, her frugal ways will benefit her greatly once she is married with kids. I say this a frugal single parent. We are going just fine on an income that most of DCUM would find completely abysmal. OP will make it work because she knows how to be frugal and knows what is really important in life. Not money and material items.

Another NP single mom-- I also raise my kids on an income that's far below what DCUM has declared enough for ONE person. We're not living large, by any means, and of course, I'd love to have more money. But, we live in a safe, friendly neighborhood with good public schools. Our house is very small; our car is inexpensive but safe. When I come home tired from work, I make something quick, or I heat up something I prepared in advance. We do go out to eat a few times a month, but I don't do takeout. Not everyone is the same, DCUM.

Where is this magical neighborhood, and how long is your commute?

Old Greenbelt, and about 20 minutes.

I work in greenbelt. Safe and good schools are very relative; you have some of the best of PG for what that is worth. How old are you kids? What is your plan they don't get into Roosevelt High?

Ha, Greenbelt is where my super frugal (and wealthy because of it!) mil told us to buy. Wish we listened!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP! I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread but let me just apologize if my post was misconstrued. It was not directed at the conscientious savers who live reasonably and have to account for many expenses, but I luk in various DCUM forums a lot and it seems to me that many people here are indeed out of touch with reality. There are people here who earn $170k got a family of four and say they struggle but the only place where I'd see a legitimate struggle there is saving for college (college is too expensive now) and having to cover health costs if your insurance doesn't extend to the kids, which would suck.

Also I do max out my 401 and Roth ira from the amount I save each month and the rest goes into the savings account.

I could invest in stocks I know but up be honest I'm not good at evaluating stocks and wouldn't know how to do it, so I don't want to risk losing my money. And I don't want to pay a broker.

OP again. Sorry for typos, on phone.

And I do understand how my lifestyle is a little extreme with never eating out, etc. my ultimate goal is yes, to transfer to a higher paying job (economy sucked when I graduated law school - I took the job I could get and I have gained valuable experience from it) through social connections I have made with other lawyers in DC. My boyfriend works in a govt position and while his salary will increase with time it's never going to be the 200k that people on this forum earn. My philosophy is that when we are earning more comfortably (which I hope will be by 2016) then we can go out to cheap, high quality Korran restaurants every once in a while. But until then I want to save like the apocalypse is coming. I don't know if I'll end up marrying my boyfriend in the end - I think we will but then anything can happen. I think my job security is solid and my chances at transferring to a higher paying job are looking really good right now, but again, anything can happen. No matter what I already have so much saved up that I feel i will be fine no matter what goes wrong.

We aren't sure we want kids because of the costs but will probably have just one. We want to be living in VA by the time we have a family so that we can pay in-state at a great school like William & Mary or VA Tech or, if the kid's smart, UVA. Though I'd still want my kid to gun for scholarship money like I did.

I thought I needed all these "things" when I was younger too (dad was a lawyer as well and earned enough to provide a barely-upper-middle-class lifestyle) but then in college I changed. I had to manage my own budget for he first time and when you're surrounded by other broke college kids you learn how happy you can be just drinking cheap beer that upperclassmen guys bought you and hanging out in your apartment. I know I cannot sustain this lifestyle as a mother but the point is with my inexpensive needs and planning, I'll manage even with more expenses and everyone else can too. People here who get loans on nice cars are ridiculous, I'm sorry. So you have a loan on your house, loan on your car AND you did that knowing you have student loans to pay off? The mortgage I understand but in that case buy two used cars. I

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Would still hopefully have a job that pays all health and dental insurance for family."

LMAO! Please list the two employers in town that will still cover the full cost of a low deductible family health plan.

At my current job I would have to pay $600/month to add one family member; at my former job, it was $1200.

My employer does and so does my husband's.

[Anonymous]

I was so excited to read this thread until I realize she was a single woman without kids.

And didn't do the math on daycare costs for even 1 child on less than 40k income.

OP, can you do a little research and come up with a plan for housing and daycare?