Being lower middle class and living well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was so excited to read this thread until I realize she was a single woman without kids.

And didn't do the math on daycare costs for even 1 child on less than 40k income.

OP, can you do a little research and come up with a plan for housing and daycare?

Do you not understand that she isn't pregnant and probably doesn't plan on having kids soon? She isn't even married! There is a good chance she will make more money in 3-5 years.

Also - she didn't say her post is for people with children. She is talking about her life now as a single person without kids. A nursing home is also expensive but she isn't saying retirees should live like she does.

Maybe she doesn't want t kids?! Maybe she has family members to provide daycare?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Congratulations, OP - I did the same a long time ago.
Now I live with DH and 2 kids in a tiny but cute little dollhouse that still cost a fortune because it's in one of the better school districts. We could afford it on our middle class salary because we had lived frugally like you and had economized and invested successfully in the stock market.

Now we still live very frugally.

Our main expenses are the mortgage and food.
Our disposable income goes to extra-curricular activities for the kids and traveling to see our families overseas.

Keep saving, OP, and make what you can of your career, because kids are expensive.

The voice of experience. It is quite doable!

I'm the PP who lived like you. When DH and I got married and had DC1, we earned 60K total gross income, and all our money went to daycare. One bedroom apartment, which we kept until DC2 was a year old.
Now our gross HHI is 120K, I stay home, and we max out retirement and college savings plus have a little left over for travel to Europe and Asia every few years. But daily, we live a frugal lifestyle which my friends cannot probably imagine. The trick is to never spend spontaneously. Everything is budgeted and planned for, and with that comes a sense of control and satisfaction. Instead of feeling submerged by expenses and jealous of what others earn, I feel empowered by the good financial choices we make and how most of our money is invested.

Whet do you live and where does DH work? And what happens if he is laid off?

We live in Bethesda. DH was laid off during the recession, and thanks to our savings we kept going frugally until he found another job.

So you are raising a family in a one bedroom apartment? B/c on 120k buying even a two bedroom condo in Bethesda is hard unless you have family money.

Um it is called saving for 10 plus years before buying. If you live like the OP,you will amass a good amount of money by the time you're ready to buy.

[Anonymous]

OP, most of the people who complain on this form about struggling on a middle class salary are families with kids.

The cost of healthcare for a family is more than a single person.

Add in daycare, college savings, buying things like diapers/stroller/crib set, etc. If you can't breast feed, formula is crazy $$. It costs a lot to live in a good school zone and you're not going to be in group housing. Oh and if you need to take any unpaid maternity leave, that will cost. Don't forget about upping your life insurance and possibly some disability insurance.

Oh and pray that you, DH, and your kids don't become ill with cancer or something awful. A lot of bankruptcies in this country are due to medical catastrophes.

It's great to live frugally, but I don't think you can judge families who are finding it tough to stay in the middle class here. You are judging something you have no experience with ... most middle class families I know are not blowing all their money on things like expensive vacations and steak dinners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was so excited to read this thread until I realize she was a single woman without kids.

And didn't do the math on daycare costs for even 1 child on less than 40k income.

OP, can you do a little research and come up with a plan for housing and daycare?

Do you not understand that she isn't pregnant and probably doesn't plan on having kids soon? She isn't even married! There is a good chance she will make more money in 3-5 years.

Also - she didn't say her post is for people with children. She is talking about her life now as a single person without kids. A nursing home is also expensive but she isn't saying retirees should live like she does.

Maybe she doesn't want t kids?! Maybe she has family members to provide daycare?

Whoa, lots of anger here. I want an anonymous internet defender BFF too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Congratulations, OP - I did the same a long time ago.
Now I live with DH and 2 kids in a tiny but cute little dollhouse that still cost a fortune because it's in one of the better school districts. We could afford it on our middle class salary because we had lived frugally like you and had economized and invested successfully in the stock market.

Now we still live very frugally.

Our main expenses are the mortgage and food.
Our disposable income goes to extra-curricular activities for the kids and traveling to see our families overseas.

Keep saving, OP, and make what you can of your career, because kids are expensive.

The voice of experience. It is quite doable!

I'm the PP who lived like you. When DH and I got married and had DC1, we earned 60K total gross income, and all our money went to daycare. One bedroom apartment, which we kept until DC2 was a year old.
Now our gross HHI is 120K, I stay home, and we max out retirement and college savings plus have a little left over for travel to Europe and Asia every few years. But daily, we live a frugal lifestyle which my friends cannot probably imagine. The trick is to never spend spontaneously. Everything is budgeted and planned for, and with that comes a sense of control and satisfaction. Instead of feeling submerged by expenses and jealous of what others earn, I feel empowered by the good financial choices we make and how most of our money is invested.

Whet do you live and where does DH work? And what happens if he is laid off?

We live in Bethesda. DH was laid off during the recession, and thanks to our savings we kept going frugally until he found another job.

So you are raising a family in a one bedroom apartment? B/c on 120k buying even a two bedroom condo in Bethesda is hard unless you have family money.

Um it is called saving for 10 plus years before buying. If you live like the OP,you will amass a good amount of money by the time you're ready to buy.

Show me the math. Homes in Bethesda cost 800k minimum. Saving 1400/month for ten years will net you 200k. But guess what if that 800k appreciates at just 3%, it's cost is increasing at $2000/month, more than you are saving.

So with a lower middle income salary you can't save your way to the expensive and appreciating housing in this region. OP will end up either having an upper middle class income but live in run down housing like many of us or she will keep current job and commute forever. Or just not have kids and keep rockin the group home.

But the title of her post suggested she was surprised role complained about living on lower middle class incomes, but she never realized it's because of the constraints imposed on families. We have all lived like students and its fine for that phase of life. Though I bet her boyfriend lives alone b/c if both members of a couple life in group housing they never get to be alone and make Romantic dinners or the like. That would suck big esp after married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Congratulations, OP - I did the same a long time ago.
Now I live with DH and 2 kids in a tiny but cute little dollhouse that still cost a fortune because it's in one of the better school districts. We could afford it on our middle class salary because we had lived frugally like you and had economized and invested successfully in the stock market.

Now we still live very frugally.

Our main expenses are the mortgage and food.
Our disposable income goes to extra-curricular activities for the kids and traveling to see our families overseas.

Keep saving, OP, and make what you can of your career, because kids are expensive.

The voice of experience. It is quite doable!

I'm the PP who lived like you. When DH and I got married and had DC1, we earned 60K total gross income, and all our money went to daycare. One bedroom apartment, which we kept until DC2 was a year old.
Now our gross HHI is 120K, I stay home, and we max out retirement and college savings plus have a little left over for travel to Europe and Asia every few years. But daily, we live a frugal lifestyle which my friends cannot probably imagine. The trick is to never spend spontaneously. Everything is budgeted and planned for, and with that comes a sense of control and satisfaction. Instead of feeling submerged by expenses and jealous of what others earn, I feel empowered by the good financial choices we make and how most of our money is invested.

Whet do you live and where does DH work? And what happens if he is laid off?

We live in Bethesda. DH was laid off during the recession, and thanks to our savings we kept going frugally until he found another job.

So you are raising a family in a one bedroom apartment? B/c on 120k buying even a two bedroom condo in Bethesda is hard unless you have family money.

Um it is called saving for 10 plus years before buying. If you live like the OP,you will amass a good amount of money by the time you're ready to buy.

Show me the math. Homes in Bethesda cost 800k minimum. Saving 1400/month for ten years will net you 200k. But guess what if that 800k appreciates at just 3%, it's cost is increasing at $2000/month, more than you are saving.

So with a lower middle income salary you can't save your way to the expensive and appreciating housing in this region. OP will end up either having an upper middle class income but live in run down housing like many of us or she will keep current job and commute forever. Or just not have kids and keep rockin the group home.

But the title of her post suggested she was surprised role complained about living on lower middle class incomes, but she never realized it's because of the constraints imposed on families. We have all lived like students and its fine for that phase of life. Though I bet her boyfriend lives alone b/c if both members of a couple life in group housing they never get to be alone and make Romantic dinners or the like. That would suck big esp after married.

Your flaw is that over time she will be a able to save a lot more than 1400. She is also maxing out retirement. Her bf is saving as well. They absolutely will have a good amount in savings over time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Congratulations, OP - I did the same a long time ago.
Now I live with DH and 2 kids in a tiny but cute little dollhouse that still cost a fortune because it's in one of the better school districts. We could afford it on our middle class salary because we had lived frugally like you and had economized and invested successfully in the stock market.

Now we still live very frugally.

Our main expenses are the mortgage and food.
Our disposable income goes to extra-curricular activities for the kids and traveling to see our families overseas.

Keep saving, OP, and make what you can of your career, because kids are expensive.

The voice of experience. It is quite doable!

I'm the PP who lived like you. When DH and I got married and had DC1, we earned 60K total gross income, and all our money went to daycare. One bedroom apartment, which we kept until DC2 was a year old.
Now our gross HHI is 120K, I stay home, and we max out retirement and college savings plus have a little left over for travel to Europe and Asia every few years. But daily, we live a frugal lifestyle which my friends cannot probably imagine. The trick is to never spend spontaneously. Everything is budgeted and planned for, and with that comes a sense of control and satisfaction. Instead of feeling submerged by expenses and jealous of what others earn, I feel empowered by the good financial choices we make and how most of our money is invested.

Whet do you live and where does DH work? And what happens if he is laid off?

We live in Bethesda. DH was laid off during the recession, and thanks to our savings we kept going frugally until he found another job.

So you are raising a family in a one bedroom apartment? B/c on 120k buying even a two bedroom condo in Bethesda is hard unless you have family money.

Um it is called saving for 10 plus years before buying. If you live like the OP,you will amass a good amount of money by the time you're ready to buy.

Show me the math. Homes in Bethesda cost 800k minimum. Saving 1400/month for ten years will net you 200k. But guess what if that 800k appreciates at just 3%, it's cost is increasing at $2000/month, more than you are saving.

So with a lower middle income salary you can't save your way to the expensive and appreciating housing in this region. OP will end up either having an upper middle class income but live in run down housing like many of us or she will keep current job and commute forever. Or just not have kids and keep rockin the group home.

But the title of her post suggested she was surprised role complained about living on lower middle class incomes, but she never realized it's because of the constraints imposed on families. We have all lived like students and its fine for that phase of life. Though I bet her boyfriend lives alone b/c if both members of a couple life in group housing they never get to be alone and make Romantic dinners or the like. That would suck big esp after married.

Your flaw is that over time she will be a able to save a lot more than 1400. She is also maxing out retirement. Her bf is saving as well. They absolutely will have a good amount in savings over time.

I don't think she is maxing out the 401k. She is saving only around 15k a year and apparently putting it all in a low yeild savings account. Hardly the path to riches if kids come along.

Also OP should not feel that smug about student loan debt. Maybe she would be earning more now if she went to a better law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Congratulations, OP - I did the same a long time ago.
Now I live with DH and 2 kids in a tiny but cute little dollhouse that still cost a fortune because it's in one of the better school districts. We could afford it on our middle class salary because we had lived frugally like you and had economized and invested successfully in the stock market.

Now we still live very frugally.

Our main expenses are the mortgage and food.
Our disposable income goes to extra-curricular activities for the kids and traveling to see our families overseas.

Keep saving, OP, and make what you can of your career, because kids are expensive.

The voice of experience. It is quite doable!

I'm the PP who lived like you. When DH and I got married and had DC1, we earned 60K total gross income, and all our money went to daycare. One bedroom apartment, which we kept until DC2 was a year old.
Now our gross HHI is 120K, I stay home, and we max out retirement and college savings plus have a little left over for travel to Europe and Asia every few years. But daily, we live a frugal lifestyle which my friends cannot probably imagine. The trick is to never spend spontaneously. Everything is budgeted and planned for, and with that comes a sense of control and satisfaction. Instead of feeling submerged by expenses and jealous of what others earn, I feel empowered by the good financial choices we make and how most of our money is invested.

Whet do you live and where does DH work? And what happens if he is laid off?

We live in Bethesda. DH was laid off during the recession, and thanks to our savings we kept going frugally until he found another job.

So you are raising a family in a one bedroom apartment? B/c on 120k buying even a two bedroom condo in Bethesda is hard unless you have family money.

As bolded above, we are now in a house. Most people in this area don't believe this is doable, but if you've both saved and invested successfully, as we've done, it is possible. We are content with our lifestyle and what we've made happen.

[Anonymous]

OP I made less than you when I first moved to silver spring. I managed to have my own ($1400/month) apartment that ate up 40% of my income but like you managed to live very well.

I became a single Mom two years later and now make 100-120K. However my rent has gone up and will continue to go up to afford a 2 bedroom ($1600-2000). Daycare was $1600 for a baby, now $1400. That doesn't include increased costs for food, toys, clothes, entertainment, and I pay more taxes. I'm fortunately still not pinched, but certainly live a similar lifestyle (no cable, used car, old furniture & TV) as a single woman on 30K vs single Mom at 100K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Congratulations, OP - I did the same a long time ago.
Now I live with DH and 2 kids in a tiny but cute little dollhouse that still cost a fortune because it's in one of the better school districts. We could afford it on our middle class salary because we had lived frugally like you and had economized and invested successfully in the stock market.

Now we still live very frugally.

Our main expenses are the mortgage and food.
Our disposable income goes to extra-curricular activities for the kids and traveling to see our families overseas.

Keep saving, OP, and make what you can of your career, because kids are expensive.

The voice of experience. It is quite doable!

I'm the PP who lived like you. When DH and I got married and had DC1, we earned 60K total gross income, and all our money went to daycare. One bedroom apartment, which we kept until DC2 was a year old.
Now our gross HHI is 120K, I stay home, and we max out retirement and college savings plus have a little left over for travel to Europe and Asia every few years. But daily, we live a frugal lifestyle which my friends cannot probably imagine. The trick is to never spend spontaneously. Everything is budgeted and planned for, and with that comes a sense of control and satisfaction. Instead of feeling submerged by expenses and jealous of what others earn, I feel empowered by the good financial choices we make and how most of our money is invested.

Whet do you live and where does DH work? And what happens if he is laid off?

We live in Bethesda. DH was laid off during the recession, and thanks to our savings we kept going frugally until he found another job.

So you are raising a family in a one bedroom apartment? B/c on 120k buying even a two bedroom condo in Bethesda is hard unless you have family money.

Um it is called saving for 10 plus years before buying. If you live like the OP,you will amass a good amount of money by the time you're ready to buy.

Show me the math. Homes in Bethesda cost 800k minimum. Saving 1400/month for ten years will net you 200k. But guess what if that 800k appreciates at just 3%, it's cost is increasing at $2000/month, more than you are saving.

So with a lower middle income salary you can't save your way to the expensive and appreciating housing in this region. OP will end up either having an upper middle class income but live in run down housing like many of us or she will keep current job and commute forever. Or just not have kids and keep rockin the group home.

But the title of her post suggested she was surprised role complained about living on lower middle class incomes, but she never realized it's because of the constraints imposed on families. We have all lived like students and its fine for that phase of life. Though I bet her boyfriend lives alone b/c if both members of a couple life in group housing they never get to be alone and make Romantic dinners or the like. That would suck big esp after married.

Your flaw is that over time she will be a able to save a lot more than 1400. She is also maxing out retirement. Her bf is saving as well. They absolutely will have a good amount in savings over time.

Sigh, please keep up. If she is making substantially more than she is not making it on a lower middle class income but an upper class one. And How exactly will her income take off, is she making partner with her third tier law degree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Congratulations, OP - I did the same a long time ago.
Now I live with DH and 2 kids in a tiny but cute little dollhouse that still cost a fortune because it's in one of the better school districts. We could afford it on our middle class salary because we had lived frugally like you and had economized and invested successfully in the stock market.

Now we still live very frugally.

Our main expenses are the mortgage and food.
Our disposable income goes to extra-curricular activities for the kids and traveling to see our families overseas.

Keep saving, OP, and make what you can of your career, because kids are expensive.

The voice of experience. It is quite doable!

I'm the PP who lived like you. When DH and I got married and had DC1, we earned 60K total gross income, and all our money went to daycare. One bedroom apartment, which we kept until DC2 was a year old.
Now our gross HHI is 120K, I stay home, and we max out retirement and college savings plus have a little left over for travel to Europe and Asia every few years. But daily, we live a frugal lifestyle which my friends cannot probably imagine. The trick is to never spend spontaneously. Everything is budgeted and planned for, and with that comes a sense of control and satisfaction. Instead of feeling submerged by expenses and jealous of what others earn, I feel empowered by the good financial choices we make and how most of our money is invested.

Whet do you live and where does DH work? And what happens if he is laid off?

We live in Bethesda. DH was laid off during the recession, and thanks to our savings we kept going frugally until he found another job.

So you are raising a family in a one bedroom apartment? B/c on 120k buying even a two bedroom condo in Bethesda is hard unless you have family money.

As bolded above, we are now in a house. Most people in this area don't believe this is doable, but if you've both saved and invested successfully, as we've done, it is possible. We are content with our lifestyle and what we've made happen.

So please show us how much you saved and the numbers like the example I showed you can't save your way ahead of housing costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Congratulations, OP - I did the same a long time ago.
Now I live with DH and 2 kids in a tiny but cute little dollhouse that still cost a fortune because it's in one of the better school districts. We could afford it on our middle class salary because we had lived frugally like you and had economized and invested successfully in the stock market.

Now we still live very frugally.

Our main expenses are the mortgage and food.
Our disposable income goes to extra-curricular activities for the kids and traveling to see our families overseas.

Keep saving, OP, and make what you can of your career, because kids are expensive.

The voice of experience. It is quite doable!

I'm the PP who lived like you. When DH and I got married and had DC1, we earned 60K total gross income, and all our money went to daycare. One bedroom apartment, which we kept until DC2 was a year old.
Now our gross HHI is 120K, I stay home, and we max out retirement and college savings plus have a little left over for travel to Europe and Asia every few years. But daily, we live a frugal lifestyle which my friends cannot probably imagine. The trick is to never spend spontaneously. Everything is budgeted and planned for, and with that comes a sense of control and satisfaction. Instead of feeling submerged by expenses and jealous of what others earn, I feel empowered by the good financial choices we make and how most of our money is invested.

Whet do you live and where does DH work? And what happens if he is laid off?

We live in Bethesda. DH was laid off during the recession, and thanks to our savings we kept going frugally until he found another job.

So you are raising a family in a one bedroom apartment? B/c on 120k buying even a two bedroom condo in Bethesda is hard unless you have family money.

Um it is called saving for 10 plus years before buying. If you live like the OP,you will amass a good amount of money by the time you're ready to buy.

Show me the math. Homes in Bethesda cost 800k minimum. Saving 1400/month for ten years will net you 200k. But guess what if that 800k appreciates at just 3%, it's cost is increasing at $2000/month, more than you are saving.

So with a lower middle income salary you can't save your way to the expensive and appreciating housing in this region. OP will end up either having an upper middle class income but live in run down housing like many of us or she will keep current job and commute forever. Or just not have kids and keep rockin the group home.

But the title of her post suggested she was surprised role complained about living on lower middle class incomes, but she never realized it's because of the constraints imposed on families. We have all lived like students and its fine for that phase of life. Though I bet her boyfriend lives alone b/c if both members of a couple life in group housing they never get to be alone and make Romantic dinners or the like. That would suck big esp after married.

Your flaw is that over time she will be a able to save a lot more than 1400. She is also maxing out retirement. Her bf is saving as well. They absolutely will have a good amount in savings over time.

I don't think she is maxing out the 401k. She is saving only around 15k a year and apparently putting it all in a low yeild savings account. Hardly the path to riches if kids come along.

Also OP should not feel that smug about student loan debt. Maybe she would be earning more now if she went to a better law school.

The OP stated that she is maxing out both the 401k and Roth and the rest goes into savings. And it looks like the OP has positioned herself career wise to earn a higher salary by 2016 and without the better law school. Cha-ching!

[Anonymous]

My take home is less than the OP's and I have a child too. It can be done folks. I am not in debt either. The posters on this thread are angry because they cannot think of living such a "deprived" life as the OP has described. I know many of my friends grew up the way I did but since becoming adults, they have become accustomed to excessive expenditures. It's hard to remember a time when you didn't have your kids in tons of activities, didn't eat out frequently, didn't buy expensive electronics, etc. When you are happy and content with your life, you do not need to fill it with all of these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Congratulations, OP - I did the same a long time ago.
Now I live with DH and 2 kids in a tiny but cute little dollhouse that still cost a fortune because it's in one of the better school districts. We could afford it on our middle class salary because we had lived frugally like you and had economized and invested successfully in the stock market.

Now we still live very frugally.

Our main expenses are the mortgage and food.
Our disposable income goes to extra-curricular activities for the kids and traveling to see our families overseas.

Keep saving, OP, and make what you can of your career, because kids are expensive.

The voice of experience. It is quite doable!

I'm the PP who lived like you. When DH and I got married and had DC1, we earned 60K total gross income, and all our money went to daycare. One bedroom apartment, which we kept until DC2 was a year old.
Now our gross HHI is 120K, I stay home, and we max out retirement and college savings plus have a little left over for travel to Europe and Asia every few years. But daily, we live a frugal lifestyle which my friends cannot probably imagine. The trick is to never spend spontaneously. Everything is budgeted and planned for, and with that comes a sense of control and satisfaction. Instead of feeling submerged by expenses and jealous of what others earn, I feel empowered by the good financial choices we make and how most of our money is invested.

Whet do you live and where does DH work? And what happens if he is laid off?

We live in Bethesda. DH was laid off during the recession, and thanks to our savings we kept going frugally until he found another job.

So you are raising a family in a one bedroom apartment? B/c on 120k buying even a two bedroom condo in Bethesda is hard unless you have family money.

As bolded above, we are now in a house. Most people in this area don't believe this is doable, but if you've both saved and invested successfully, as we've done, it is possible. We are content with our lifestyle and what we've made happen.

So please show us how much you saved and the numbers like the example I showed you can't save your way ahead of housing costs.

Not sure if you're talking to me, I'm not the OP, but we had enough to put 50% down on a house worth slightly less than the 800K cited above, which meant we were approved for the mortgage. Contrary to OP, and I hope she's still reading this, we had successfully invested in the stock market, and were able to pull out enough without endangering our retirement. Never be afraid of investing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My take home is less than the OP's and I have a child too. It can be done folks. I am not in debt either. The posters on this thread are angry because they cannot think of living such a "deprived" life as the OP has described. I know many of my friends grew up the way I did but since becoming adults, they have become accustomed to excessive expenditures. It's hard to remember a time when you didn't have your kids in tons of activities, didn't eat out frequently, didn't buy expensive electronics, etc. When you are happy and content with your life, you do not need to fill it with all of these things.

How much do you pay for daycare? Do you accept government assistance (WIC)?