Being lower middle class and living well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Report back after you are married and have kids.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Report back after you are married and have kids.

This is a NP - of course things are going to change when OP has kids. However, her frugal ways will benefit her greatly once she is married with kids. I say this a frugal single parent. We are going just fine on an income that most of DCUM would find completely abysmal. OP will make it work because she knows how to be frugal and knows what is really important in life. Not money and material items.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you're taking into account how you'll feel after the fourth sleepless night in a row while working full time, and then coming home to two small children having temper tantrums and a messy house. THAT will be the moment when you want to first start cooking dinner? Sorry, OP, but you'll want to order take-out on those nights.

+1 million

$20 co-pays for kids sick visits IF you can get a doctor to see you x 6 per year (initial visit & follow-up, referral to specialist)
$40 for emergency urgent call centers when you can't get to docs x 6 per year
$50 for parking fees at doctors offices for above
$200 in lunches & snacks out when running around with kid
$200 per kid for field trips, PTA dues, etc
$300 per kid for clothes per year (you don't always get EVERYTHING hand-me-down, ie snow boots that fit, winter parkas, etc)
$200 per year for dental care for kids until time for ortho...ha, ha, ha...then it is
$2000 minimum ....
......

This is just a beginning....

[Anonymous]

What I love best about OP is that her parents and grandparents paid for a substantial part of her education, but she seems unaware how she will need to make a hell of a lot more money to be able to save anything to help her kids pay for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you're taking into account how you'll feel after the fourth sleepless night in a row while working full time, and then coming home to two small children having temper tantrums and a messy house. THAT will be the moment when you want to first start cooking dinner? Sorry, OP, but you'll want to order take-out on those nights.

+1 million

$20 co-pays for kids sick visits IF you can get a doctor to see you x 6 per year (initial visit & follow-up, referral to specialist)
$40 for emergency urgent call centers when you can't get to docs x 6 per year
$50 for parking fees at doctors offices for above
$200 in lunches & snacks out when running around with kid
$200 per kid for field trips, PTA dues, etc
$300 per kid for clothes per year (you don't always get EVERYTHING hand-me-down, ie snow boots that fit, winter parkas, etc)
$200 per year for dental care for kids until time for ortho...ha, ha, ha...then it is
$2000 minimum ....
......

This is just a beginning....

Don't forget the $400 hospital bill (after insurance) for stitches for your three year old's arm.

But, I applaud OP's efforts - more people should live like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi everyone! I'm the OP. Thanks for the nice comments. One last post before I go to bed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report back after you are married and have kids.

This. 1000 times this.

Why would that change anything? The conventional wisdom in fact is that if you want to save money, get married young. But sure, let's dissect this real quick.

Things that wouldn't change if I got married and had kids:
- Would still eat 99% home-cooked food and generic brands.
- Would still not buy alcohol.
- If my old car doesn't last then I'll buy a used car and use it the same way
- Same cheap $20/month phone plan
- Would still not pay for TV/cable.
- Would still hopefully have a job that pays all health and dental insurance for family.

Things that would improve if I got married:
- Giant standard deduction from taxable income
- Tax credit for each kid I have
- Tax-deductible contributions to a joint retirement savings account.
- If we buy and sell a home together, we don't have to pay taxes on the profit as long as it's not more than $500,000
- Could probably combine car insurance policies and get a discount.

Things that would suck if I got married and had kids
- Having to pay more on living expenses, such as rent or mortgage, because I only have the DH's income to split it with as opposed to 4 roommates and plus I'd have to choose a slightly nicer apartment to make room for kid(s).
- Costs having a child. This is really the only major expense problem. So you start paying right from prenatal care to the actual birth in the hospital, then you lose income even on maternity leave, the clothes and car seat and baby food, etc. Plus I may need to start putting down at least $800 a month for the college fund.

In any case that baby had better get good grades and wrangle some scholarship money! Public school and public university or I'm not paying. I went to public schools and it turned out great for me.

With my lifestyle habits and two incomes, why the hell can't I raise a child and still live well with my class/income level?

Good night for now!

You're a lawyer who isn't even clearing $36k per year. I don't think you're doing that great.

Not OP but wow, look at the bitchy, entitled douchebags in this thread! I think she's doing just fine considering she has no loans and she's apparently saving up more every month than the trainwrecks on this forum - which probably include you, I'm guessing?

Thanks for this great perspective OP!

+1

Not to mention that if she has solid litigation experience, she can probably lateral to a law firm one day while also having saved up money already.

I still think this is a little extreme though. I'd be fine with $500 a month in savings and living a little more luxuriously. Never going to restaurants in a society where restaurants can be an amazing experience, even budget ones, seems like overkill.

if she's making that little, chances are she is working at a small law firm. that, or an uber-prestigious nonprofit job.

also, "Even museums have free admittance days. "? don't nearly all the DC museums have free admission days 7 days per week?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you're taking into account how you'll feel after the fourth sleepless night in a row while working full time, and then coming home to two small children having temper tantrums and a messy house. THAT will be the moment when you want to first start cooking dinner? Sorry, OP, but you'll want to order take-out on those nights.

+1 million

$20 co-pays for kids sick visits IF you can get a doctor to see you x 6 per year (initial visit & follow-up, referral to specialist)
$40 for emergency urgent call centers when you can't get to docs x 6 per year
$50 for parking fees at doctors offices for above
$200 in lunches & snacks out when running around with kid
$200 per kid for field trips, PTA dues, etc
$300 per kid for clothes per year (you don't always get EVERYTHING hand-me-down, ie snow boots that fit, winter parkas, etc)
$200 per year for dental care for kids until time for ortho...ha, ha, ha...then it is
$2000 minimum ....
......

This is just a beginning....

Don't forget the $400 hospital bill (after insurance) for stitches for your three year old's arm.

But, I applaud OP's efforts - more people should live like this.

Yes. Think about how much further ahead she'll be if and when she does have a higher income and still lives frugally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi everyone! I'm the OP. Thanks for the nice comments. One last post before I go to bed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report back after you are married and have kids.

This. 1000 times this.

Why would that change anything? The conventional wisdom in fact is that if you want to save money, get married young. But sure, let's dissect this real quick.

Things that wouldn't change if I got married and had kids:
- Would still eat 99% home-cooked food and generic brands.
- Would still not buy alcohol.
- If my old car doesn't last then I'll buy a used car and use it the same way
- Same cheap $20/month phone plan
- Would still not pay for TV/cable.
- Would still hopefully have a job that pays all health and dental insurance for family.

Things that would improve if I got married:
- Giant standard deduction from taxable income
- Tax credit for each kid I have
- Tax-deductible contributions to a joint retirement savings account.
- If we buy and sell a home together, we don't have to pay taxes on the profit as long as it's not more than $500,000
- Could probably combine car insurance policies and get a discount.

Things that would suck if I got married and had kids
- Having to pay more on living expenses, such as rent or mortgage, because I only have the DH's income to split it with as opposed to 4 roommates and plus I'd have to choose a slightly nicer apartment to make room for kid(s).
- Costs having a child. This is really the only major expense problem. So you start paying right from prenatal care to the actual birth in the hospital, then you lose income even on maternity leave, the clothes and car seat and baby food, etc. Plus I may need to start putting down at least $800 a month for the college fund.

In any case that baby had better get good grades and wrangle some scholarship money! Public school and public university or I'm not paying. I went to public schools and it turned out great for me.

With my lifestyle habits and two incomes, why the hell can't I raise a child and still live well with my class/income level?

Good night for now!

You're a lawyer who isn't even clearing $36k per year. I don't think you're doing that great.

Not OP but wow, look at the bitchy, entitled douchebags in this thread! I think she's doing just fine considering she has no loans and she's apparently saving up more every month than the trainwrecks on this forum - which probably include you, I'm guessing?

Thanks for this great perspective OP!

+1

Not to mention that if she has solid litigation experience, she can probably lateral to a law firm one day while also having saved up money already.

I still think this is a little extreme though. I'd be fine with $500 a month in savings and living a little more luxuriously. Never going to restaurants in a society where restaurants can be an amazing experience, even budget ones, seems like overkill.

if she's making that little, chances are she is working at a small law firm. that, or an uber-prestigious nonprofit job.

also, "Even museums have free admittance days. "? don't nearly all the DC museums have free admission days 7 days per week?

And this is the time to do that kind of job - when she's single with no kids.

[Anonymous]

pp here. Agreed, if you are talking about the prestigious nonprofit. However, if she's working at a small law firm, her options to "lateral to a [better] law firm" are unfortunately pretty grim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you're taking into account how you'll feel after the fourth sleepless night in a row while working full time, and then coming home to two small children having temper tantrums and a messy house. THAT will be the moment when you want to first start cooking dinner? Sorry, OP, but you'll want to order take-out on those nights.

Depending on her boyfriends income she may not be able to afford day care on that income. Op, good luck. Young and well.....just good luck. Life is very different when you have real responsibilities. I hope everything goes your way.

+1000. It is simply not as straightforward an exercise when you have kids. All decisions become way more complex and have multiple financial angles to consider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report back after you are married and have kids.

This. 1000 times this.

I'm sure if she is saving way more than her peers now she can save more than her peers with children when the time comes. I get so sick of hearing about how expensive kids are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you're taking into account how you'll feel after the fourth sleepless night in a row while working full time, and then coming home to two small children having temper tantrums and a messy house. THAT will be the moment when you want to first start cooking dinner? Sorry, OP, but you'll want to order take-out on those nights.

Depending on her boyfriends income she may not be able to afford day care on that income. Op, good luck. Young and well.....just good luck. Life is very different when you have real responsibilities. I hope everything goes your way.

+1000. It is simply not as straightforward an exercise when you have kids. All decisions become way more complex and have multiple financial angles to consider.

I have a feeling they will have tons in savings by the time they have kids. They won't spend on a wedding. She will probably quit working, her then husband's salary will have increased and they will continue to save.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's totally possible to live within your means in DC. I love reading the money and finance forums for this reason. The people who say they make 300k and still feel like they're barely scraping by make me feel infinitely wiser about the personal decisions I've made. (We have a HHI of 75k and live and work in DC.)

One of the best decisions we made was to buy a house in a less fancy part of town. My house that I'm completely in love with was a steal. Two people paying $650 for just rooms? That's the price of my mortgage. And it's appreciating well. I love it!

I'm not as frugal in other spheres. We like to eat out a couple times a week. We could definitely cut down on that. I too love cooking, but it's difficult when I'm tired and somedays I'd rather just play with my son. But other days I'm just being lazy and could definitely stand to cook more!

Also, we bought a new car a couple years ago, albeit at a good price. It was a previous year's model the year they came out with a new model, so we got a pretty awesome price on it. But we could have gone for a used one instead and saved more initially, maybe waiting to buy new when we made more money in the future.

I wish I had more money to renovate the bathroom, take nice family vacations in exotic locations, or even just Disney World, which is just as expensive as going to Cancun in my book, etc. But I figure we can work towards that. And that would just be icing on the cake.

Kudos to you for making your life make sense. Doesn't it feel nice?

Exactly. I also take my lunch, we only have one car, etc. We live very frugally and save 50 percent of our take home pay not including retirement accounts. It can be done.

[Anonymous]

I used to live this way. I think the trick to staying this way is to never, ever sample more luxurious living. Once you have taken that trip to Paris, Williamsburg just won't cut it any more. Once you have nice clothes, ugly clothes just don't cut it any more. So be careful not to be tempted to splurge at all, or you will ruin your ability to be satisfied with less.

I also agree with the poster that said compromise with a spouse can be a problem. He may tell you that you shouldn't have any type of cell phone, while you may tell him he doesn't need to eat out once a week. In the end, both of you give in and expenses go up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you're taking into account how you'll feel after the fourth sleepless night in a row while working full time, and then coming home to two small children having temper tantrums and a messy house. THAT will be the moment when you want to first start cooking dinner? Sorry, OP, but you'll want to order take-out on those nights.

+1 million

$20 co-pays for kids sick visits IF you can get a doctor to see you x 6 per year (initial visit & follow-up, referral to specialist)
$40 for emergency urgent call centers when you can't get to docs x 6 per year
$50 for parking fees at doctors offices for above
$200 in lunches & snacks out when running around with kid
$200 per kid for field trips, PTA dues, etc
$300 per kid for clothes per year (you don't always get EVERYTHING hand-me-down, ie snow boots that fit, winter parkas, etc)
$200 per year for dental care for kids until time for ortho...ha, ha, ha...then it is
$2000 minimum ....
......

This is just a beginning....

Don't forget the $400 hospital bill (after insurance) for stitches for your three year old's arm.

But, I applaud OP's efforts - more people should live like this.

Yes. Think about how much further ahead she'll be if and when she does have a higher income and still lives frugally.

+1000 You rock OP! A few people that I know that have lived frugally like you do also have the money to show for it--ten, twenty years later.