AAP - A new perspective

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand how one child receiving a service or learning a particular curriculum takes away from your child, especially in the schools that do offer the AAP curriculum to all students who can handle the work.

That would be akin to saying that my neighbors kids having the opportunity to play AA baseball takes away from my kid who is single A.

The fact is that the local AAP is not the same as the AAP center. The local AAP pulls students out once a week or so for one class of math, whereas the Center AAP is full time. Otherwise, why would they have this distinction. The root problem is fundamentally that of using a test such as CogAT to do the selection for a curriculum that is ultimately based on accelerated math (and yes, test scores are the single strong deciding factor in the decisions -- self provided work samples and accolades don't do much at all). While those who do well in the group standardized test may also do well (for the most part) in the AAP, which has been the argument presented by some of the PPs, the fact remains that there is a large population of kids who happen to miss some arbitrary cutoff score on the CogAT, who are also capable of handling the AAP curriculum, but are not challenged enough in the GenEd or the local level III (or even local level IV) in most, if not all, schools. As a result, we end up with a GenEd curriculum that is largely mediocre, and we graduate kids en masse who are little prepared for or disinterested in STEM.

The proposition of raising the bar by making full time AAP curriculum the standard and FCPS setting a model of excellence in the nation, as presented by the OP, is quite a welcome one. It is also true that discussion on this forum probably does little to have the issue heard by the relevant administrators in FCPS unless Dr. Garza is reading these posts. How about an online petition such as change.org/petition?

But AAP level IV is still not taking anything away from any other students.

I think that most people would be on board with extending the curriculum to as many kids who can handle it, without taking away the center schools.

[b]If I read the thread correctly, the point is about making every school a center school with every class following the center AAP curriculum.

I think that is a bad idea and a step backward to take away the center school magnets. I do think that extending the curriculum is a good idea.

[Anonymous]

Interesting thread- one of many that try to design a new approach - not gonna happen people! Talk all you want but a dcum forum will not change things!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand how one child receiving a service or learning a particular curriculum takes away from your child, especially in the schools that do offer the AAP curriculum to all students who can handle the work.

That would be akin to saying that my neighbors kids having the opportunity to play AA baseball takes away from my kid who is single A.

The fact is that the local AAP is not the same as the AAP center. The local AAP pulls students out once a week or so for one class of math, whereas the Center AAP is full time. Otherwise, why would they have this distinction. The root problem is fundamentally that of using a test such as CogAT to do the selection for a curriculum that is ultimately based on accelerated math (and yes, test scores are the single strong deciding factor in the decisions -- self provided work samples and accolades don't do much at all). While those who do well in the group standardized test may also do well (for the most part) in the AAP, which has been the argument presented by some of the PPs, the fact remains that there is a large population of kids who happen to miss some arbitrary cutoff score on the CogAT, who are also capable of handling the AAP curriculum, but are not challenged enough in the GenEd or the local level III (or even local level IV) in most, if not all, schools. As a result, we end up with a GenEd curriculum that is largely mediocre, and we graduate kids en masse who are little prepared for or disinterested in STEM.

The proposition of raising the bar by making full time AAP curriculum the standard and FCPS setting a model of excellence in the nation, as presented by the OP, is quite a welcome one. It is also true that discussion on this forum probably does little to have the issue heard by the relevant administrators in FCPS unless Dr. Garza is reading these posts. How about an online petition such as change.org/petition?

But AAP level IV is still not taking anything away from any other students.

I think that most people would be on board with extending the curriculum to as many kids who can handle it, without taking away the center schools.

[b]It is not about Level IV taking anything away from the other students. It is about making it available to all the students by default, and dealing with those who find the curriculum difficult through other remedial approaches. I see a lot of possessiveness about AAP on this forum as if it is a privilege that should not be shared with the others. Think broadly, folks! We are talking about elevating the overall quality of our education system here -- and we are all taxpayers whether our kids go to AAP or GenEd. Why not bring up the level of GenEd?

I don't know of a parent with a child in AAP who would object to fcps extending the AAP curriculum to as many students who can handle it.

What I do think they would object to, especially those of us who have seen our highly gifted kids go through the center program, is eliminating the center because a group of parents feel that "it's not fair."

We have been involved in gifted programs in many state. The center model is, hands down, the best program we have experienced for our child. We have children who are not qualified for the center program, and we still feel this way after having experience the system from both sides of the fence.

What fcps has managed to create, through using a magnet approach within a traditional elementary school, is simply exceptional at meeting the needs of the

of the highly gifted and gifted population.

Expand the curriculum, by all means, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Keep the centers, maybe scaling them down by 20-25%, and expand the curriculum to more base schools.

The center models have too much value and are an exceptional way to [b]meet the needs of kids who might fall through the cracks otherwise.

The kids who are falling through the cracks are the Gen Ed kids who attend center schools. Many of these students have, as PPs pointed out, just missed getting into AAP by a few points the CogAT. These kids are fully capable of the AAP curriculum, yet here they are in the ever-dwindling center Gen Ed classes. If FCPS insists on keeping the center model, then the Gen Ed students who are assigned to centers should have the option of attending another, non-center elementary school. It's a mistake to insist that these Gen Ed kids attend center schools, in which they are the minority and looked down upon simply because they aren't with the rest of the kids in AAP. The center model is what has created this resentment and division among students and parents. It may work for those kids who are actually in the program, but what about those who are not? They need to be among their peers as well, and not relegated to the few Gen Ed classes left in a center school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The kids who are falling through the cracks are the Gen Ed kids who attend center schools. Many of these students have, as PPs pointed out, just missed getting into AAP by a few points the CogAT. These kids are fully capable of the AAP curriculum, yet here they are in the ever-dwindling center Gen Ed classes.

Not all Center schools have "ever-dwindling center Gen Ed classes."

How about finding the middle ground, so the subset of Centers with "ever-dwindling center Gen Ed classes" have their feeder system reviewed and possibly changed?

[Anonymous]

Forgot to add: it is unbelievable that AAP kids are given the choice of attending the center or not, but GE kids whose base school is a center aren't given any choice in the matter at all. Why is is ok to offer one group a choice, but not the other? To paraphrase a PP, what does it take away from your AAP child to offer my Gen Ed child the option of attending another school? Are only AAP kids "allowed" to choose which school they would be most comfortable at? This whole flawed system needs to be reworked so that all students are offered similar opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forgot to add: it is unbelievable that AAP kids are given the choice of attending the center or not, but GE kids whose base school is a center aren't given any choice in the matter at all.

FCPS has several special programs where parents can opt that their student attends the special program or does not.

You can search the school directory by special program -- it is the fourth option:

http://commweb.fcps.edu/directory/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting thread- one of many that try to design a new approach - not gonna happen people! Talk all you want but a dcum forum will not change things!

As 6/18/2014 23:35 suggested, how about an online petition such as change.org/petition?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forgot to add: it is unbelievable that AAP kids are given the choice of attending the center or not, but GE kids whose base school is a center aren't given any choice in the matter at all. Why is is ok to offer one group a choice, but not the other? To paraphrase a PP, what does it take away from your AAP child to offer my Gen Ed child the option of attending another school? Are only AAP kids "allowed" to choose which school they would be most comfortable at? This whole flawed system needs to be reworked so that all students are offered similar opportunities.

I think you would be very hard pressed to find a parent of an AAP kid who would disagree with this as an option either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids who are falling through the cracks are the Gen Ed kids who attend center schools. Many of these students have, as PPs pointed out, just missed getting into AAP by a few points the CogAT. These kids are fully capable of the AAP curriculum, yet here they are in the ever-dwindling center Gen Ed classes.

Not all Center schools have "ever-dwindling center Gen Ed classes."

How about finding the middle ground, so the subset of Centers with "ever-dwindling center Gen Ed classes" have their feeder system reviewed and possibly changed?

I think that this is the best suggestion.

Reassess those oversized centers and their feeder system.

If the base school averages enough kids to fill two level IV classes, then they become a self contained school with no feeders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids who are falling through the cracks are the Gen Ed kids who attend center schools. Many of these students have, as PPs pointed out, just missed getting into AAP by a few points the CogAT. These kids are fully capable of the AAP curriculum, yet here they are in the ever-dwindling center Gen Ed classes.

Not all Center schools have "ever-dwindling center Gen Ed classes."

How about finding the middle ground, so the subset of Centers with "ever-dwindling center Gen Ed classes" have their feeder system reviewed and possibly changed?

I think that this is the best suggestion.

Reassess those oversized centers and their feeder system.

If the base school averages enough kids to fill two level IV classes, then they become a self contained school with no feeders.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that this is the best suggestion.

Reassess those oversized centers and their feeder system.

If the base school averages enough kids to fill two level IV classes, then they become a self contained school with no feeders.

Isn't this essentially what FPAC proposed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgot to add: it is unbelievable that AAP kids are given the choice of attending the center or not, but GE kids whose base school is a center aren't given any choice in the matter at all.

FCPS has several special programs where parents can opt that their student attends the special program or does not.

You can search the school directory by special program -- it is the fourth option:

http://commweb.fcps.edu/directory/

Yes, but you have to have one of five very restrictive reasons for requesting a transfer (the special program is one of them), whereas AAP kids only have to decide which school they prefer. It isn't the same opportunity at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that this is the best suggestion.

Reassess those oversized centers and their feeder system.

If the base school averages enough kids to fill two level IV classes, then they become a self contained school with no feeders.

Isn't this essentially what FPAC proposed?

Yes, and I'm wondering when it will actually be implemented. All the elementary schools in Cluster 1 have more than enough AAP kids for several classes per grade, with no need for busing to a center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting thread- one of many that try to design a new approach - not gonna happen people! Talk all you want but a dcum forum will not change things!

As 6/18/2014 23:35 suggested, how about an online petition such as change.org/petition?

Agree.

OP are you still here? How about starting this petition?

In the mean time, let's all call or email our cluster supervisors regarding this.

http://www.fcps.edu/clusters/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that this is the best suggestion.

Reassess those oversized centers and their feeder system.

If the base school averages enough kids to fill two level IV classes, then they become a self contained school with no feeders.

Isn't this essentially what FPAC proposed?

They proposed eliminating all Centers.