AAP - A new perspective

[Anonymous]

To raise the standard of public school education in the U.S., which is quite desparately needed, and to better prepare students for STEM or any other career path, it seems to me that the AAP curriculum should be the norm, and not an exception to the Gen Ed curriculum. Instead of using the NNAT, CoGat and the myriad alphabet-soup test scores to select students for the AAP, the schools should instead pull out students with low (say 1 standard deviation below the mean) scores for remedial or what's currently considered Gen Ed curriculum. I think most children would thrive well in and actually enjoy a challenging AAP curriculum and learn more in such a system. Frankly, most students feel bored and unchallenged in the current Gen Ed curriculum, and some wander off into other pursuits as a result. The proposed system will save parents (and, implicitly, their children) the tremendous agony and desperation that is evident in posts in the AAP forum, and the über and über testing (WISC, SB, ...) to supersede the scores in the previous tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To raise the standard of public school education in the U.S., which is quite desparately needed, and to better prepare students for STEM or any other career path, it seems to me that the AAP curriculum should be the norm, and not an exception to the Gen Ed curriculum. Instead of using the NNAT, CoGat and the myriad alphabet-soup test scores to select students for the AAP, the schools should instead pull out students with low (say 1 standard deviation below the mean) scores for remedial or what's currently considered Gen Ed curriculum. I think most children would thrive well in and actually enjoy a challenging AAP curriculum and learn more in such a system. Frankly, most students feel bored and unchallenged in the current Gen Ed curriculum, and some wander off into other pursuits as a result. The proposed system will save parents (and, implicitly, their children) the tremendous agony and desperation that is evident in posts in the AAP forum, and the über and über testing (WISC, SB, ...) to supersede the scores in the previous tests.

The scores are one piece of evidence considered for admission only. You're ignoring that plenty who don't have the cut off scores make it with strong GBRS, work samples, grades, DRA level, notations of receiving level II services, questionnaires, letters of recommendations, certificates and awards, etc. also, I don't think the system should be overhauled because it saves parents and kids "tremendous agony and separation". I DO think most FCPS teachers could do a much better job at differentiation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To raise the standard of public school education in the U.S., which is quite desparately needed, and to better prepare students for STEM or any other career path, it seems to me that the AAP curriculum should be the norm, and not an exception to the Gen Ed curriculum. Instead of using the NNAT, CoGat and the myriad alphabet-soup test scores to select students for the AAP, the schools should instead pull out students with low (say 1 standard deviation below the mean) scores for remedial or what's currently considered Gen Ed curriculum. I think most children would thrive well in and actually enjoy a challenging AAP curriculum and learn more in such a system. Frankly, most students feel bored and unchallenged in the current Gen Ed curriculum, and some wander off into other pursuits as a result. The proposed system will save parents (and, implicitly, their children) the tremendous agony and desperation that is evident in posts in the AAP forum, and the über and über testing (WISC, SB, ...) to supersede the scores in the previous tests.

I agree. AAP has long outlived its original purpose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To raise the standard of public school education in the U.S., which is quite desparately needed, and to better prepare students for STEM or any other career path, it seems to me that the AAP curriculum should be the norm, and not an exception to the Gen Ed curriculum. Instead of using the NNAT, CoGat and the myriad alphabet-soup test scores to select students for the AAP, the schools should instead pull out students with low (say 1 standard deviation below the mean) scores for remedial or what's currently considered Gen Ed curriculum. I think most children would thrive well in and actually enjoy a challenging AAP curriculum and learn more in such a system. Frankly, most students feel bored and unchallenged in the current Gen Ed curriculum, and some wander off into other pursuits as a result. The proposed system will save parents (and, implicitly, their children) the tremendous agony and desperation that is evident in posts in the AAP forum, and the über and über testing (WISC, SB, ...) to supersede the scores in the previous tests.

I agree. AAP has long outlived its original purpose.

no it is same; just tons of Indians and Asians moved into the area so naturally the numbers of students and demand for such services went way up. These people were not here 15-20 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To raise the standard of public school education in the U.S., which is quite desparately needed, and to better prepare students for STEM or any other career path, it seems to me that the AAP curriculum should be the norm, and not an exception to the Gen Ed curriculum. Instead of using the NNAT, CoGat and the myriad alphabet-soup test scores to select students for the AAP, the schools should instead pull out students with low (say 1 standard deviation below the mean) scores for remedial or what's currently considered Gen Ed curriculum. I think most children would thrive well in and actually enjoy a challenging AAP curriculum and learn more in such a system. Frankly, most students feel bored and unchallenged in the current Gen Ed curriculum, and some wander off into other pursuits as a result. The proposed system will save parents (and, implicitly, their children) the tremendous agony and desperation that is evident in posts in the AAP forum, and the über and über testing (WISC, SB, ...) to supersede the scores in the previous tests.

The scores are one piece of evidence considered for admission only. You're ignoring that plenty who don't have the cut off scores make it with strong GBRS, work samples, grades, DRA level, notations of receiving level II services, questionnaires, letters of recommendations, certificates and awards, etc. also, I don't think the system should be overhauled because it saves parents and kids "tremendous agony and separation". I DO think most FCPS teachers could do a much better job at differentiation.

I believe the original post presented this as an option to elevate the standard of education as the main objective (and not because it saves agony and desperation), which is an interesting thought. I think we are kidding ourselves if we believe that the AAP committee really looks at anything beyond test scores and the highly subjective GBRS score in their decision making. Most principals, AARTs, and other professionals involved in the system would acknowledge this in private. As I understand, kids not in the screening pool who get selected for AAP on referral usually have test scores that are on the borderline of the cutoff score for the year, and happen to have a favorable GBRS score. It is extremely unlikely that a student with test scores even a few points below the cutoff and stellar work samples or recommendations would be selected. I fully agree that the teachers could do a way better job at differentiation. In any case, it is a matter of keeping the children challenged at their appropriate levels, and not focusing the entire classroom to the level of the least in the cohort.

[Anonymous]

I agree with this in principal, but then you read parents on this board who say even the kids selected can't keep up with the pace. Should we put more children into that situation? I believe that more thinking needs to be taught in general ed rather than just rote learning, but maybe not at the same pace. I only have a 1st grader, so I don't know if this is happening or not. Do the general ed kids get the AAP curriculum materials, but just get taught less of them in 1 year? I think this would alleviate any problem if everyone had access to the materials, but just did them at their own pace.

[Anonymous]

OP, you had nothing new to add. Cluster I has been using the AAP curriculum for all classes for at least one year' possibly two. The curriculum is the same. The depth and pacing is different in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this in principal, but then you read parents on this board who say even the kids selected can't keep up with the pace. Should we put more children into that situation? I believe that more thinking needs to be taught in general ed rather than just rote learning, but maybe not at the same pace. I only have a 1st grader, so I don't know if this is happening or not. Do the general ed kids get the AAP curriculum materials, but just get taught less of them in 1 year? I think this would alleviate any problem if everyone had access to the materials, but just did them at their own pace.

At our center school, based on the projects on the walls of the hallways, all of the students are following the same basic curriculum for many of the classes. My kid's assessment is that the AAP class moves through the material at a much quicker pace, leaving more time for discussion, debate, etc. Between the three AAP classes, it appears that one of the three has more of the most advanced and fastest learners funneled into it this year. It could be just a coincidence, but most of the kids in this class have been in the same class since fourth grade, with a few exceptions in and out. It is the class with the most advanced math students as well.

Math is definitely different, as evident by the SOL scores. The scores in math are very high, especially in fourth grade. But when the AAP and the advanced math kids from gen ed break off and take the 6th grade SOLs for math, the scores tank. About 30% of our kids (half of the gen ed kids) are not in advanced math so they take the 5th grade SOLs instead of the 6th grade SOLs. Our center's fourth grade SOL math scores are traditionally in the upper 90%, as are our 6th grade math SOL scores. Our fifth grade math SOL scores are around 20% lower than the years before and after, around the low 80% range. Math is where we see the biggest difference.

The AAP and gen ed classes at our school do a big interclass project in fifth grade. It incorporates writing and history mostly, and each group has an equal number of AAP and non AAP kids on the team. They work together for all phases from planning and researching to writing and presenting. It seems to work well at our center and my kid felt that it was a fun and positive experience.

The center does an excellent job combining the kids in every possible and practical way to make them all feel like they are an important part of the school. Any of the AAP vs non AAP drama is parent or student created and not from the school or administration.

I have seen a very limited amount of parent competitiveness and angst between AAP and non-AAP parents, but I think that is parent specific and that their are more things at play (like queen bee drama or big man on campus syndrome) than just AAP vs non AAP drama. There also seems to be a bit more conflict or hurt feelings with the gigantic fourth grade AAP class, but in my opinion this is due to the fluke of having such a large percentage of kids qualifying for the program. I also think the problems caused by the fourth grade AAP class is district wide and is likely the source of a lot of problems between parents, both at the base schools and the centers. I have multiple kids at several elementary grades, one at AAP center and the others at the base school. I have heard very little said about AAP or qualifying from AAP from the older families and the younger families, but I have heard some passionate feelings about AAP from those with kids in the current fourth grade class.

The parents at our center, both AAP and non AAP are very nice, fun and kind people with similar values so overall it is a great place for learning for all of the kids in my opinion. Everyone wants the best education possible for their kids, and I think that our center does an excellent job providing one for all of the students, no matter which program they are in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this in principal, but then you read parents on this board who say even the kids selected can't keep up with the pace. Should we put more children into that situation? I believe that more thinking needs to be taught in general ed rather than just rote learning, but maybe not at the same pace. I only have a 1st grader, so I don't know if this is happening or not. Do the general ed kids get the AAP curriculum materials, but just get taught less of them in 1 year? I think this would alleviate any problem if everyone had access to the materials, but just did them at their own pace.

At our center school, based on the projects on the walls of the hallways, all of the students are following the same basic curriculum for many of the classes. My kid's assessment is that the AAP class moves through the material at a much quicker pace, leaving more time for discussion, debate, etc. Between the three AAP classes, it appears that one of the three has more of the most advanced and fastest learners funneled into it this year. It could be just a coincidence, but most of the kids in this class have been in the same class since fourth grade, with a few exceptions in and out. It is the class with the most advanced math students as well.

Math is definitely different, as evident by the SOL scores. The scores in math are very high, especially in fourth grade. But when the AAP and the advanced math kids from gen ed break off and take the 6th grade SOLs for math, the scores tank. About 30% of our kids (half of the gen ed kids) are not in advanced math so they take the 5th grade SOLs instead of the 6th grade SOLs. Our center's fourth grade SOL math scores are traditionally in the upper 90%, as are our 6th grade math SOL scores. Our fifth grade math SOL scores are around 20% lower than the years before and after, around the low 80% range. Math is where we see the biggest difference.

The AAP and gen ed classes at our school do a big interclass project in fifth grade. It incorporates writing and history mostly, and each group has an equal number of AAP and non AAP kids on the team. They work together for all phases from planning and researching to writing and presenting. It seems to work well at our center and my kid felt that it was a fun and positive experience.

The center does an excellent job combining the kids in every possible and practical way to make them all feel like they are an important part of the school. Any of the AAP vs non AAP drama is parent or student created and not from the school or administration.

I have seen a very limited amount of parent competitiveness and angst between AAP and non-AAP parents, but I think that is parent specific and that their are more things at play (like queen bee drama or big man on campus syndrome) than just AAP vs non AAP drama. There also seems to be a bit more conflict or hurt feelings with the gigantic fourth grade AAP class, but in my opinion this is due to the fluke of having such a large percentage of kids qualifying for the program. I also think the problems caused by the fourth grade AAP class is district wide and is likely the source of a lot of problems between parents, both at the base schools and the centers. I have multiple kids at several elementary grades, one at AAP center and the others at the base school. I have heard very little said about AAP or qualifying from AAP from the older families and the younger families, but I have heard some passionate feelings about AAP from those with kids in the current fourth grade class.

The parents at our center, both AAP and non AAP are very nice, fun and kind people with similar values so overall it is a great place for learning for all of the kids in my opinion. Everyone wants the best education possible for their kids, and I think that our center does an excellent job providing one for all of the students, no matter which program they are in.

So do the general ed kids get taught with the same materials? It's hard to say from your post. It has some nice information about the interaction of general ed and AAP students at the center school, but it's hard to understand what exactly is right or wrong about the general ed curriculum now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this in principal, but then you read parents on this board who say even the kids selected can't keep up with the pace. Should we put more children into that situation? I believe that more thinking needs to be taught in general ed rather than just rote learning, but maybe not at the same pace. I only have a 1st grader, so I don't know if this is happening or not. Do the general ed kids get the AAP curriculum materials, but just get taught less of them in 1 year? I think this would alleviate any problem if everyone had access to the materials, but just did them at their own pace.

At our center school, based on the projects on the walls of the hallways, all of the students are following the same basic curriculum for many of the classes. My kid's assessment is that the AAP class moves through the material at a much quicker pace, leaving more time for discussion, debate, etc. Between the three AAP classes, it appears that one of the three has more of the most advanced and fastest learners funneled into it this year. It could be just a coincidence, but most of the kids in this class have been in the same class since fourth grade, with a few exceptions in and out. It is the class with the most advanced math students as well.

Math is definitely different, as evident by the SOL scores. The scores in math are very high, especially in fourth grade. But when the AAP and the advanced math kids from gen ed break off and take the 6th grade SOLs for math, the scores tank. About 30% of our kids (half of the gen ed kids) are not in advanced math so they take the 5th grade SOLs instead of the 6th grade SOLs. Our center's fourth grade SOL math scores are traditionally in the upper 90%, as are our 6th grade math SOL scores. Our fifth grade math SOL scores are around 20% lower than the years before and after, around the low 80% range. Math is where we see the biggest difference.

The AAP and gen ed classes at our school do a big interclass project in fifth grade. It incorporates writing and history mostly, and each group has an equal number of AAP and non AAP kids on the team. They work together for all phases from planning and researching to writing and presenting. It seems to work well at our center and my kid felt that it was a fun and positive experience.

The center does an excellent job combining the kids in every possible and practical way to make them all feel like they are an important part of the school. Any of the AAP vs non AAP drama is parent or student created and not from the school or administration.

I have seen a very limited amount of parent competitiveness and angst between AAP and non-AAP parents, but I think that is parent specific and that their are more things at play (like queen bee drama or big man on campus syndrome) than just AAP vs non AAP drama. There also seems to be a bit more conflict or hurt feelings with the gigantic fourth grade AAP class, but in my opinion this is due to the fluke of having such a large percentage of kids qualifying for the program. I also think the problems caused by the fourth grade AAP class is district wide and is likely the source of a lot of problems between parents, both at the base schools and the centers. I have multiple kids at several elementary grades, one at AAP center and the others at the base school. I have heard very little said about AAP or qualifying from AAP from the older families and the younger families, but I have heard some passionate feelings about AAP from those with kids in the current fourth grade class.

The parents at our center, both AAP and non AAP are very nice, fun and kind people with similar values so overall it is a great place for learning for all of the kids in my opinion. Everyone wants the best education possible for their kids, and I think that our center does an excellent job providing one for all of the students, no matter which program they are in.

So do the general ed kids get taught with the same materials? It's hard to say from your post. It has some nice information about the interaction of general ed and AAP students at the center school, but it's hard to understand what exactly is right or wrong about the general ed curriculum now.

I don't know how they are taught, but based on the projects in the hallways a lot of the framework is the same.

In my opinion for our area, the non-AAP kids overall are a bright, intelligent group, as are the AAP kids.

The notable things I see in the AAP kids, and I am saying this just based off my observations the AAP kids and not off the non-AAP kids, is that there is a segment of the AAP kids who are wickedly smart and driven. They move through material in depth and very, very quickly, and seem to comprehend advanced complexes right away and with little effort, and will work hard to push themselves above and beyond. This is at a notable level and at a far greater drive and ability than the typical kid. Then there is a disproportionately large group of kids, mine falls into this group, who are also wickedly smart, photographic memory, blazes through concepts and work very quickly and easily, but who do not always have the same drive or organizational skills because they are either busy daydreaming about some obscure concept, as in the absent minded professor, or they are busy fidgeting or doing some other distracting behavior. There also seems to be a disproportionate number of twice exceptional kids in AAP, and they have certain behaviors that require a different approach.

From my assessment these kinds of kids are about a third to less than half of the kids in my child's grade for AAP, and because of the number of them compared to a typical class, I would assume that the AAP teachers have to employ different approaches and perhaps different supplemental materials to teach an effective class.

Of course, I am not in the classroom so I could be completely off base, but those are my opinions as a parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this in principal, but then you read parents on this board who say even the kids selected can't keep up with the pace. Should we put more children into that situation? I believe that more thinking needs to be taught in general ed rather than just rote learning, but maybe not at the same pace. I only have a 1st grader, so I don't know if this is happening or not. Do the general ed kids get the AAP curriculum materials, but just get taught less of them in 1 year? I think this would alleviate any problem if everyone had access to the materials, but just did them at their own pace.

At our center school, based on the projects on the walls of the hallways, all of the students are following the same basic curriculum for many of the classes. My kid's assessment is that the AAP class moves through the material at a much quicker pace, leaving more time for discussion, debate, etc. Between the three AAP classes, it appears that one of the three has more of the most advanced and fastest learners funneled into it this year. It could be just a coincidence, but most of the kids in this class have been in the same class since fourth grade, with a few exceptions in and out. It is the class with the most advanced math students as well.

Math is definitely different, as evident by the SOL scores. The scores in math are very high, especially in fourth grade. But when the AAP and the advanced math kids from gen ed break off and take the 6th grade SOLs for math, the scores tank. About 30% of our kids (half of the gen ed kids) are not in advanced math so they take the 5th grade SOLs instead of the 6th grade SOLs. Our center's fourth grade SOL math scores are traditionally in the upper 90%, as are our 6th grade math SOL scores. Our fifth grade math SOL scores are around 20% lower than the years before and after, around the low 80% range. Math is where we see the biggest difference.

The AAP and gen ed classes at our school do a big interclass project in fifth grade. It incorporates writing and history mostly, and each group has an equal number of AAP and non AAP kids on the team. They work together for all phases from planning and researching to writing and presenting. It seems to work well at our center and my kid felt that it was a fun and positive experience.

The center does an excellent job combining the kids in every possible and practical way to make them all feel like they are an important part of the school. Any of the AAP vs non AAP drama is parent or student created and not from the school or administration.

I have seen a very limited amount of parent competitiveness and angst between AAP and non-AAP parents, but I think that is parent specific and that their are more things at play (like queen bee drama or big man on campus syndrome) than just AAP vs non AAP drama. There also seems to be a bit more conflict or hurt feelings with the gigantic fourth grade AAP class, but in my opinion this is due to the fluke of having such a large percentage of kids qualifying for the program. I also think the problems caused by the fourth grade AAP class is district wide and is likely the source of a lot of problems between parents, both at the base schools and the centers. I have multiple kids at several elementary grades, one at AAP center and the others at the base school. I have heard very little said about AAP or qualifying from AAP from the older families and the younger families, but I have heard some passionate feelings about AAP from those with kids in the current fourth grade class.

The parents at our center, both AAP and non AAP are very nice, fun and kind people with similar values so overall it is a great place for learning for all of the kids in my opinion. Everyone wants the best education possible for their kids, and I think that our center does an excellent job providing one for all of the students, no matter which program they are in.

So do the general ed kids get taught with the same materials? It's hard to say from your post. It has some nice information about the interaction of general ed and AAP students at the center school, but it's hard to understand what exactly is right or wrong about the general ed curriculum now.

I don't know how they are taught, but based on the projects in the hallways a lot of the framework is the same.

In my opinion for our area, the non-AAP kids overall are a bright, intelligent group, as are the AAP kids.

The notable things I see in the AAP kids, and I am saying this just based off my observations the AAP kids and not off the non-AAP kids, is that there is a segment of the AAP kids who are wickedly smart and driven. They move through material in depth and very, very quickly, and seem to comprehend advanced complexes right away and with little effort, and will work hard to push themselves above and beyond. This is at a notable level and at a far greater drive and ability than the typical kid. Then there is a disproportionately large group of kids, mine falls into this group, who are also wickedly smart, photographic memory, blazes through concepts and work very quickly and easily, but who do not always have the same drive or organizational skills because they are either busy daydreaming about some obscure concept, as in the absent minded professor, or they are busy fidgeting or doing some other distracting behavior. There also seems to be a disproportionate number of twice exceptional kids in AAP, and they have certain behaviors that require a different approach.

From my assessment these kinds of kids are about a third to less than half of the kids in my child's grade for AAP, and because of the number of them compared to a typical class, I would assume that the AAP teachers have to employ different approaches and perhaps different supplemental materials to teach an effective class.

Of course, I am not in the classroom so I could be completely off base, but those are my opinions as a parent.

As a post script, I would also say that having both AAP kids and non AAP children in my family, and based off the similarities of the students at our base and center schools, I am perfectly happy with AAP for my absent minded professor(s), and I am also happy with my very bright kid(s) remaining in the base school and not going to AAP.

I think that AAP does a really good job serving the types of kids I described above. In my opinion AAP does an exceptional job with twice exceptional kids especially, because they see so many more of them.

I think my bright kid(s) can do well in either AAP or non AAP. From my observations, the non-AAP class seems to teach to a smaller range of needs in our area, as opposed to the AAP class which has a disproportional number of really off the chart kids, absent minded professors and twice exceptional. Plus, there is something to said and benefits for some personalities to being successful in a smaller pond so to speak.

I am glad there are options to help all our kids learn to the best of their ability. For a district this large, they really try to meet all students where they are at and for that I am grateful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this in principal, but then you read parents on this board who say even the kids selected can't keep up with the pace. Should we put more children into that situation? I believe that more thinking needs to be taught in general ed rather than just rote learning, but maybe not at the same pace. I only have a 1st grader, so I don't know if this is happening or not. Do the general ed kids get the AAP curriculum materials, but just get taught less of them in 1 year? I think this would alleviate any problem if everyone had access to the materials, but just did them at their own pace.

At our center school, based on the projects on the walls of the hallways, all of the students are following the same basic curriculum for many of the classes. My kid's assessment is that the AAP class moves through the material at a much quicker pace, leaving more time for discussion, debate, etc. Between the three AAP classes, it appears that one of the three has more of the most advanced and fastest learners funneled into it this year. It could be just a coincidence, but most of the kids in this class have been in the same class since fourth grade, with a few exceptions in and out. It is the class with the most advanced math students as well.

Math is definitely different, as evident by the SOL scores. The scores in math are very high, especially in fourth grade. But when the AAP and the advanced math kids from gen ed break off and take the 6th grade SOLs for math, the scores tank. About 30% of our kids (half of the gen ed kids) are not in advanced math so they take the 5th grade SOLs instead of the 6th grade SOLs. Our center's fourth grade SOL math scores are traditionally in the upper 90%, as are our 6th grade math SOL scores. Our fifth grade math SOL scores are around 20% lower than the years before and after, around the low 80% range. Math is where we see the biggest difference.

The AAP and gen ed classes at our school do a big interclass project in fifth grade. It incorporates writing and history mostly, and each group has an equal number of AAP and non AAP kids on the team. They work together for all phases from planning and researching to writing and presenting. It seems to work well at our center and my kid felt that it was a fun and positive experience.

The center does an excellent job combining the kids in every possible and practical way to make them all feel like they are an important part of the school. Any of the AAP vs non AAP drama is parent or student created and not from the school or administration.

I have seen a very limited amount of parent competitiveness and angst between AAP and non-AAP parents, but I think that is parent specific and that their are more things at play (like queen bee drama or big man on campus syndrome) than just AAP vs non AAP drama. There also seems to be a bit more conflict or hurt feelings with the gigantic fourth grade AAP class, but in my opinion this is due to the fluke of having such a large percentage of kids qualifying for the program. I also think the problems caused by the fourth grade AAP class is district wide and is likely the source of a lot of problems between parents, both at the base schools and the centers. I have multiple kids at several elementary grades, one at AAP center and the others at the base school. I have heard very little said about AAP or qualifying from AAP from the older families and the younger families, but I have heard some passionate feelings about AAP from those with kids in the current fourth grade class.

The parents at our center, both AAP and non AAP are very nice, fun and kind people with similar values so overall it is a great place for learning for all of the kids in my opinion. Everyone wants the best education possible for their kids, and I think that our center does an excellent job providing one for all of the students, no matter which program they are in.

So do the general ed kids get taught with the same materials? It's hard to say from your post. It has some nice information about the interaction of general ed and AAP students at the center school, but it's hard to understand what exactly is right or wrong about the general ed curriculum now.

I don't know how they are taught, but based on the projects in the hallways a lot of the framework is the same.

In my opinion for our area, the non-AAP kids overall are a bright, intelligent group, as are the AAP kids.

The notable things I see in the AAP kids, and I am saying this just based off my observations the AAP kids and not off the non-AAP kids, is that there is a segment of the AAP kids who are wickedly smart and driven. They move through material in depth and very, very quickly, and seem to comprehend advanced complexes right away and with little effort, and will work hard to push themselves above and beyond. This is at a notable level and at a far greater drive and ability than the typical kid. Then there is a disproportionately large group of kids, mine falls into this group, who are also wickedly smart, photographic memory, blazes through concepts and work very quickly and easily, but who do not always have the same drive or organizational skills because they are either busy daydreaming about some obscure concept, as in the absent minded professor, or they are busy fidgeting or doing some other distracting behavior. There also seems to be a disproportionate number of twice exceptional kids in AAP, and they have certain behaviors that require a different approach.

From my assessment these kinds of kids are about a third to less than half of the kids in my child's grade for AAP, and because of the number of them compared to a typical class, I would assume that the AAP teachers have to employ different approaches and perhaps different supplemental materials to teach an effective class.

Of course, I am not in the classroom so I could be completely off base, but those are my opinions as a parent.

As a post script, I would also say that having both AAP kids and non AAP children in my family, and based off the similarities of the students at our base and center schools, I am perfectly happy with AAP for my absent minded professor(s), and I am also happy with my very bright kid(s) remaining in the base school and not going to AAP.

I think that AAP does a really good job serving the types of kids I described above. In my opinion AAP does an exceptional job with twice exceptional kids especially, because they see so many more of them.

I think my bright kid(s) can do well in either AAP or non AAP. From my observations, the non-AAP class seems to teach to a smaller range of needs in our area, as opposed to the AAP class which has a disproportional number of really off the chart kids, absent minded professors and twice exceptional. Plus, there is something to said and benefits for some personalities to being successful in a smaller pond so to speak.

I am glad there are options to help all our kids learn to the best of their ability. For a district this large, they really try to meet all students where they are at and for that I am grateful.

You must have a good base school. My non-AAP kid is getting screwed compared to my AAP kid at a center school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To raise the standard of public school education in the U.S., which is quite desparately needed, and to better prepare students for STEM or any other career path, it seems to me that the AAP curriculum should be the norm, and not an exception to the Gen Ed curriculum. Instead of using the NNAT, CoGat and the myriad alphabet-soup test scores to select students for the AAP, the schools should instead pull out students with low (say 1 standard deviation below the mean) scores for remedial or what's currently considered Gen Ed curriculum. I think most children would thrive well in and actually enjoy a challenging AAP curriculum and learn more in such a system. Frankly, most students feel bored and unchallenged in the current Gen Ed curriculum, and some wander off into other pursuits as a result. The proposed system will save parents (and, implicitly, their children) the tremendous agony and desperation that is evident in posts in the AAP forum, and the über and über testing (WISC, SB, ...) to supersede the scores in the previous tests.

I agree. AAP has long outlived its original purpose.

no it is same; just tons of Indians and Asians moved into the area so naturally the numbers of students and demand for such services went way up. These people [b]were not here 15-20 years ago.

Really?? You scare me. You're also wrong. If you look at the statistics you will note that the majority of the increase is not due to these ethnic groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this in principal, but then you read parents on this board who say even the kids selected can't keep up with the pace. Should we put more children into that situation? I believe that more thinking needs to be taught in general ed rather than just rote learning, but maybe not at the same pace. I only have a 1st grader, so I don't know if this is happening or not. Do the general ed kids get the AAP curriculum materials, but just get taught less of them in 1 year? I think this would alleviate any problem if everyone had access to the materials, but just did them at their own pace.

At our center school, based on the projects on the walls of the hallways, all of the students are following the same basic curriculum for many of the classes. My kid's assessment is that the AAP class moves through the material at a much quicker pace, leaving more time for discussion, debate, etc. Between the three AAP classes, it appears that one of the three has more of the most advanced and fastest learners funneled into it this year. It could be just a coincidence, but most of the kids in this class have been in the same class since fourth grade, with a few exceptions in and out. It is the class with the most advanced math students as well.

Math is definitely different, as evident by the SOL scores. The scores in math are very high, especially in fourth grade. But when the AAP and the advanced math kids from gen ed break off and take the 6th grade SOLs for math, the scores tank. About 30% of our kids (half of the gen ed kids) are not in advanced math so they take the 5th grade SOLs instead of the 6th grade SOLs. Our center's fourth grade SOL math scores are traditionally in the upper 90%, as are our 6th grade math SOL scores. Our fifth grade math SOL scores are around 20% lower than the years before and after, around the low 80% range. Math is where we see the biggest difference.

The AAP and gen ed classes at our school do a big interclass project in fifth grade. It incorporates writing and history mostly, and each group has an equal number of AAP and non AAP kids on the team. They work together for all phases from planning and researching to writing and presenting. It seems to work well at our center and my kid felt that it was a fun and positive experience.

The center does an excellent job combining the kids in every possible and practical way to make them all feel like they are an important part of the school. Any of the AAP vs non AAP drama is parent or student created and not from the school or administration.

I have seen a very limited amount of parent competitiveness and angst between AAP and non-AAP parents, but I think that is parent specific and that their are more things at play (like queen bee drama or big man on campus syndrome) than just AAP vs non AAP drama. There also seems to be a bit more conflict or hurt feelings with the gigantic fourth grade AAP class, but in my opinion this is due to the fluke of having such a large percentage of kids qualifying for the program. I also think the problems caused by the fourth grade AAP class is district wide and is likely the source of a lot of problems between parents, both at the base schools and the centers. I have multiple kids at several elementary grades, one at AAP center and the others at the base school. I have heard very little said about AAP or qualifying from AAP from the older families and the younger families, but I have heard some passionate feelings about AAP from those with kids in the current fourth grade class.

The parents at our center, both AAP and non AAP are very nice, fun and kind people with similar values so overall it is a great place for learning for all of the kids in my opinion. Everyone wants the best education possible for their kids, and I think that our center does an excellent job providing one for all of the students, no matter which program they are in.

So do the general ed kids get taught with the same materials? It's hard to say from your post. It has some nice information about the interaction of general ed and AAP students at the center school, but it's hard to understand what exactly is right or wrong about the general ed curriculum now.

I don't know how they are taught, but based on the projects in the hallways a lot of the framework is the same.

In my opinion for our area, the non-AAP kids overall are a bright, intelligent group, as are the AAP kids.

The notable things I see in the AAP kids, and I am saying this just based off my observations the AAP kids and not off the non-AAP kids, is that there is a segment of the AAP kids who are wickedly smart and driven. They move through material in depth and very, very quickly, and seem to comprehend advanced complexes right away and with little effort, and will work hard to push themselves above and beyond. This is at a notable level and at a far greater drive and ability than the typical kid. Then there is a disproportionately large group of kids, mine falls into this group, who are also wickedly smart, photographic memory, blazes through concepts and work very quickly and easily, but who do not always have the same drive or organizational skills because they are either busy daydreaming about some obscure concept, as in the absent minded professor, or they are busy fidgeting or doing some other distracting behavior. There also seems to be a disproportionate number of twice exceptional kids in AAP, and they have certain behaviors that require a different approach.

From my assessment these kinds of kids are about a third to less than half of the kids in my child's grade for AAP, and because of the number of them compared to a typical class, I would assume that the AAP teachers have to employ different approaches and perhaps different supplemental materials to teach an effective class.

Of course, I am not in the classroom so I could be completely off base, but those are my opinions as a parent.

As a post script, I would also say that having both AAP kids and non AAP children in my family, and based off the similarities of the students at our base and center schools, I am perfectly happy with AAP for my absent minded professor(s), and I am also happy with my very bright kid(s) remaining in the base school and not going to AAP.

I think that AAP does a really good job serving the types of kids I described above. In my opinion AAP does an exceptional job with twice exceptional kids especially, because they see so many more of them.

I think my bright kid(s) can do well in either AAP or non AAP. From my observations, the non-AAP class seems to teach to a smaller range of needs in our area, as opposed to the AAP class which has a disproportional number of really off the chart kids, absent minded professors and twice exceptional. Plus, there is something to said and benefits for some personalities to being successful in a smaller pond so to speak.

I am glad there are options to help all our kids learn to the best of their ability. For a district this large, they really try to meet all students where they are at and for that I am grateful.

You must have a good base school. My non-AAP kid is getting screwed compared to my AAP kid at a center school.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this in principal, but then you read parents on this board who say even the kids selected can't keep up with the pace. Should we put more children into that situation? I believe that more thinking needs to be taught in general ed rather than just rote learning, but maybe not at the same pace. I only have a 1st grader, so I don't know if this is happening or not. Do the general ed kids get the AAP curriculum materials, but just get taught less of them in 1 year? I think this would alleviate any problem if everyone had access to the materials, but just did them at their own pace.

At our center school, based on the projects on the walls of the hallways, all of the students are following the same basic curriculum for many of the classes. My kid's assessment is that the AAP class moves through the material at a much quicker pace, leaving more time for discussion, debate, etc. Between the three AAP classes, it appears that one of the three has more of the most advanced and fastest learners funneled into it this year. It could be just a coincidence, but most of the kids in this class have been in the same class since fourth grade, with a few exceptions in and out. It is the class with the most advanced math students as well.

Math is definitely different, as evident by the SOL scores. The scores in math are very high, especially in fourth grade. But when the AAP and the advanced math kids from gen ed break off and take the 6th grade SOLs for math, the scores tank. About 30% of our kids (half of the gen ed kids) are not in advanced math so they take the 5th grade SOLs instead of the 6th grade SOLs. Our center's fourth grade SOL math scores are traditionally in the upper 90%, as are our 6th grade math SOL scores. Our fifth grade math SOL scores are around 20% lower than the years before and after, around the low 80% range. Math is where we see the biggest difference.

The AAP and gen ed classes at our school do a big interclass project in fifth grade. It incorporates writing and history mostly, and each group has an equal number of AAP and non AAP kids on the team. They work together for all phases from planning and researching to writing and presenting. It seems to work well at our center and my kid felt that it was a fun and positive experience.

The center does an excellent job combining the kids in every possible and practical way to make them all feel like they are an important part of the school. Any of the AAP vs non AAP drama is parent or student created and not from the school or administration.

I have seen a very limited amount of parent competitiveness and angst between AAP and non-AAP parents, but I think that is parent specific and that their are more things at play (like queen bee drama or big man on campus syndrome) than just AAP vs non AAP drama. There also seems to be a bit more conflict or hurt feelings with the gigantic fourth grade AAP class, but in my opinion this is due to the fluke of having such a large percentage of kids qualifying for the program. I also think the problems caused by the fourth grade AAP class is district wide and is likely the source of a lot of problems between parents, both at the base schools and the centers. I have multiple kids at several elementary grades, one at AAP center and the others at the base school. I have heard very little said about AAP or qualifying from AAP from the older families and the younger families, but I have heard some passionate feelings about AAP from those with kids in the current fourth grade class.

The parents at our center, both AAP and non AAP are very nice, fun and kind people with similar values so overall it is a great place for learning for all of the kids in my opinion. Everyone wants the best education possible for their kids, and I think that our center does an excellent job providing one for all of the students, no matter which program they are in.

So do the general ed kids get taught with the same materials? It's hard to say from your post. It has some nice information about the interaction of general ed and AAP students at the center school, but it's hard to understand what exactly is right or wrong about the general ed curriculum now.

I don't know how they are taught, but based on the projects in the hallways a lot of the framework is the same.

In my opinion for our area, the non-AAP kids overall are a bright, intelligent group, as are the AAP kids.

The notable things I see in the AAP kids, and I am saying this just based off my observations the AAP kids and not off the non-AAP kids, is that there is a segment of the AAP kids who are wickedly smart and driven. They move through material in depth and very, very quickly, and seem to comprehend advanced complexes right away and with little effort, and will work hard to push themselves above and beyond. This is at a notable level and at a far greater drive and ability than the typical kid. Then there is a disproportionately large group of kids, mine falls into this group, who are also wickedly smart, photographic memory, blazes through concepts and work very quickly and easily, but who do not always have the same drive or organizational skills because they are either busy daydreaming about some obscure concept, as in the absent minded professor, or they are busy fidgeting or doing some other distracting behavior. There also seems to be a disproportionate number of twice exceptional kids in AAP, and they have certain behaviors that require a different approach.

From my assessment these kinds of kids are about a third to less than half of the kids in my child's grade for AAP, and because of the number of them compared to a typical class, I would assume that the AAP teachers have to employ different approaches and perhaps different supplemental materials to teach an effective class.

Of course, I am not in the classroom so I could be completely off base, but those are my opinions as a parent.

As a post script, I would also say that having both AAP kids and non AAP children in my family, and based off the similarities of the students at our base and center schools, I am perfectly happy with AAP for my absent minded professor(s), and I am also happy with my very bright kid(s) remaining in the base school and not going to AAP.

I think that AAP does a really good job serving the types of kids I described above. In my opinion AAP does an exceptional job with twice exceptional kids especially, because they see so many more of them.

I think my bright kid(s) can do well in either AAP or non AAP. From my observations, the non-AAP class seems to teach to a smaller range of needs in our area, as opposed to the AAP class which has a disproportional number of really off the chart kids, absent minded professors and twice exceptional. Plus, there is something to said and benefits for some personalities to being successful in a smaller pond so to speak.

I am glad there are options to help all our kids learn to the best of their ability. For a district this large, they really try to meet all students where they are at and for that I am grateful.

Wonderful post. I especially agree with your opinion about AAP addressing the needs of twice exceptional kids.