AAP - A new perspective

[Anonymous]

Many of those extracurricular things are not funded by the PTA or organized by the schools. They require parents who step up and time and money from the kids' families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted a few times earlier.

Both our center and base school offer Socratic seminar. I think your kids have far better odds of being selected to participate at the base school over the center school.
Both offer advanced math, with fifth graders taking the sixth grade SOL etc, but only the center busses kids to the middle school for honors algebra 7.

I don't know about Caesars English, William and Mary, etc.

The center school has far better extracurriculars like Odyssey of the Mind, Science Olympiad, fencing, robotics, an upper grade musical, etc.
[u]
You can do a lot more with a school of 900 than a school of 600.

Most of those are PTA organized. If parents want them and want to do the advertising, work to secure the room reservation, get the fingerprinting done of the instructors, etc., you could have them at any school. They are a PITA to get these programs implemented but I'm certain a school of 600 could have them just like a school of 900 could have them IF a parent steps up to get them organized.

Actually it's quite difficult. My DC is at a 600 student elementary and programs get cut all the time because of lack of interest. A lot of children do their own thing and don't want to participate in PTA run activities. With a larger cohort, the PTA can provide additional clubs that will be filled on a continual basis and not just run the one year someone steps up to start the program.

We are at a center with more than 700 kids. Trust me, getting interest is not guaranteed there. The parent running them has to do a lot to garner interest.

[Anonymous]

I have a smart kid who is not going to AAP, and I'm glad that she can stay in Gen Ed. Even though she is smart, she also has adhd, and she often lags behind the AAP type kids. I think she will feel more confident when the AAP kids move onto the center school, and leave her at the base school with other kids like her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted a few times earlier.

Both our center and base school offer Socratic seminar. I think your kids have far better odds of being selected to participate at the base school over the center school.
Both offer advanced math, with fifth graders taking the sixth grade SOL etc, but only the center busses kids to the middle school for honors algebra 7.

I don't know about Caesars English, William and Mary, etc.

The center school has far better extracurriculars like Odyssey of the Mind, Science Olympiad, fencing, robotics, an upper grade musical, etc.
[u]
You can do a lot more with a school of 900 than a school of 600.

Most of those are PTA organized. If parents want them and want to do the advertising, work to secure the room reservation, get the fingerprinting done of the instructors, etc., you could have them at any school. They are a PITA to get these programs implemented but I'm certain a school of 600 could have them just like a school of 900 could have them IF a parent steps up to get them organized.

No, not exactly. You would think this is so but it is not.

Having 50% more students (300 in this case) greatly increases the pool of interested students and parents willing to do the work.

Take Science Olympiad for example. Science Olympiad is for third-sixth at the lowest level and 5th-8th for level B.

Most of the bigger teams have enough student interest to field 2 or 3 teams for regionals, at both level A and B, of about 15 kids/team. Most of the centers are top heavy from 3rd grade up, so they have a bigger proportion of students eligible for Science Olympiad than a small school will.

There are roughly 20 events that a team competes in at Science Olympiad. A school competes 2 kids from each team at each event. All of the events are coached by parents. The preparation starts in the fall and runs through the spring competitions.

Our center school's team, like most, requires that a parent must coach or help out in some way. There are around 30 parents +/- who volunteer to coach the teams over the course of several months. Because of the size of the student body, there is more depth in not only the team, but the number of parents willing and able to take on the coaching commitment.

At our smaller base school, there is not the number of interested and willing students and parent coaches needed to field a Science Olympiad team on a consistent yearly basis, and certainly not enough to field several regional teams.

The same goes for the musical. Our center school usually has just shy of 100 kids participating in the musicals from year to year. They actually have more of a theater program so to speak. With that many kids, the talent pool is much bigger and so the final product is much higher. They have enough talented and capable students with strong backgrounds in theater to fill all the leads and stage a very nice quality production. With more participation, there is more money in the pool for costumes, lighting, sets, choreographers, and on and on. What they are able to put on due to the size of the student body is actually quiet impressive for an elementary school.

The base school can and does put on a musical or play, but it is a much smaller production and more in line with what you would expect from an elementary school. The kids do a wonderful job, but there is just not the depth of talent and resources due to the school and pool being much smaller.

The same thing for the strings orchestra, the band, etc. Our strings program is so large at the center that they are able to have multiple classes for the same instruments. For example, the violins have several different classes for students at several different levels, and they have well over 100 kids in the orchestra. The base school is smaller and as a result does not have the amount of students required to run this type of program.

Yes, there are disadvantages to the size of the centers, but the edge in extracurriculars due to the larger student body is a definite plus to being at a center school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a smart kid who is not going to AAP, and I'm glad that she can stay in Gen Ed. Even though she is smart, she also has adhd, and she often lags behind the AAP type kids. I think she will feel more confident when the AAP kids move onto the center school, and leave her at the base school with other kids like her.

I would agree except that I have a Gen Ed child whose base school is the center, which creates a bad situation. The Gen Ed kids there become the minority, making reality looked completely skewed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To raise the standard of public school education in the U.S., which is quite desparately needed, and to better prepare students for STEM or any other career path, it seems to me that the AAP curriculum should be the norm, and not an exception to the Gen Ed curriculum. Instead of using the NNAT, CoGat and the myriad alphabet-soup test scores to select students for the AAP, the schools should instead pull out students with low (say 1 standard deviation below the mean) scores for remedial or what's currently considered Gen Ed curriculum. I think most children would thrive well in and actually enjoy a challenging AAP curriculum and learn more in such a system. Frankly, most students feel bored and unchallenged in the current Gen Ed curriculum, and some wander off into other pursuits as a result. The proposed system will save parents (and, implicitly, their children) the tremendous agony and desperation that is evident in posts in the AAP forum, and the über and über testing (WISC, SB, ...) to supersede the scores in the previous tests.

what is with this constant discussion of AAP curriculum? Except math perhaps, the curriculum is about the same. The difference is the kids themselves which allows more thoughtful discussion and the classes can move ahead faster. Even if everyone was in AAP, you'd soon see a sorting out with some moving ahead and some falling well behind. Then you'd be right back to the need to serve the academically advanced who are capable of moving ahead faster.

Very good point 2nd poster.

Is the curriculum the same though? Do they read the same books in GE and AAP? Do they both do presentations and have socratic seminars? Do all the children use the William and Mary materials? I'm sincerely asking. One of my children may not get into AAP and I'm wondering how the curriculum differs and whether or not GE kids can handle the AAP curriculum at a slower pace. The OP said all children should be given the AAP curriculum. I'm wondering if they do this now at a slower pace or if it's an entirely different focus in general ed. Most of the posters here can't seem to stay on the topic. They write about how great it is for GE and AAP to be separate and how each child's needs are met, but they really aren't talking about whether or not the general ed kids can handle the AAP curriculum which is what the OP suggested.

The principal of our center school told us that every child in that school could do the AAP curriculum. It's not rocket science, it's the same information the GE classes get. The pace may be quicker, especially with math, but otherwise, it's nothing out of the ordinary.

the pace, the depth, the quality of the discussion ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a smart kid who is not going to AAP, and I'm glad that she can stay in Gen Ed. Even though she is smart, she also has adhd, and she often lags behind the AAP type kids. I think she will feel more confident when the AAP kids move onto the center school, and leave her at the base school with other kids like her.

I would agree except that I have a Gen Ed child whose base school is the center, which creates a bad situation. The Gen Ed kids there become the minority, making reality looked completely skewed.

That is a shame.

FCPS needs to realign the school assignments in cases like this.

Unless it is a fluke year like the current fourth graders, that large of an imbalance shouldn't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a smart kid who is not going to AAP, and I'm glad that she can stay in Gen Ed. Even though she is smart, she also has adhd, and she often lags behind the AAP type kids. I think she will feel more confident when the AAP kids move onto the center school, and leave her at the base school with other kids like her.

I would agree except that I have a Gen Ed child whose base school is the center, which creates a bad situation. The Gen Ed kids there become the minority, making reality looked completely skewed.

That is a shame.

FCPS needs to realign the school assignments in cases like this.

Unless it is a fluke year like the current fourth graders, that large of an imbalance shouldn't happen.

Totally agree. This is one of the centers in the Great Falls/Vienna/McLean area, in which all of the feeder schools already have large numbers of LLIV students, yet are still busing them to the center. This is definitely one area which does not need center schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a smart kid who is not going to AAP, and I'm glad that she can stay in Gen Ed. Even though she is smart, she also has adhd, and she often lags behind the AAP type kids. I think she will feel more confident when the AAP kids move onto the center school, and leave her at the base school with other kids like her.

I would agree except that I have a Gen Ed child whose base school is the center, which creates a bad situation. The Gen Ed kids there become the minority, making reality looked completely skewed.

That is a shame.

FCPS needs to realign the school assignments in cases like this.

Unless it is a fluke year like the current fourth graders, that large of an imbalance shouldn't happen.

Totally agree. This is one of the centers in the Great Falls/Vienna/McLean area, in which all of the feeder schools already have large numbers of LLIV students, yet are still busing them to the center. This is definitely one area which does not need center schools.

Or maybe if a pyramid has such a mass of students that they an support a large center sized elementary, 700-900 kids, then that pyramid should turn one of the middle schools into an AAP magnet school, while all the other pyramids continue with the center model since they do not have the students to support a dedicated elementary school. The middle schools can stay the same in all pyramids.

I am not from that area, but from all the posts it appears that Haycock more than any of the other elementaries has way more AAP kids zoned for it than not, so perhaps they could turn Haycock into an AAP magnet, and reassign all the non-AAP kids to the surrounding elementary schools. The schools in that area have such a high level of student anyway, so it is not like anyone would get shortchanged by taking one school out of commission and rezoning the kids to the other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a smart kid who is not going to AAP, and I'm glad that she can stay in Gen Ed. Even though she is smart, she also has adhd, and she often lags behind the AAP type kids. I think she will feel more confident when the AAP kids move onto the center school, and leave her at the base school with other kids like her.

I would agree except that I have a Gen Ed child whose base school is the center, which creates a bad situation. The Gen Ed kids there become the minority, making reality looked completely skewed.

That is a shame.

FCPS needs to realign the school assignments in cases like this.

Unless it is a fluke year like the current fourth graders, that large of an imbalance shouldn't happen.

Totally agree. This is one of the centers in the Great Falls/Vienna/McLean area, in which all of the feeder schools already have large numbers of LLIV students, yet are still busing them to the center. This is definitely one area which does not need center schools.

Or maybe if a pyramid has such a mass of students that they an support a large center sized elementary, 700-900 kids, then that pyramid should turn one of the middle schools into an AAP magnet school, while all the other pyramids continue with the center model since they do not have the students to support a dedicated elementary school. The middle schools can stay the same in all pyramids.

I am not from that area, but from all the posts it appears that Haycock more than any of the other elementaries has way more AAP kids zoned for it than not, so perhaps they could turn Haycock into an AAP magnet, and reassign all the non-AAP kids to the surrounding elementary schools. The schools in that area have such a high level of student anyway, so it is not like anyone would get shortchanged by taking one school out of commission and rezoning the kids to the other schools.

Colvin Run would also be a good candidate.

[Anonymous]

Why on an AAP forum are parents not able to stay on topic? This forum is not about AAP vs. gen. ed, how good the AAP program is, benefits of being at a center school for extracurriculars, whether bussing should be allowed from base schools with high AAP eligible students to centers, or how the current AAP program helps your child. There are other threads about all these things. It is about whether the AAP curriculum is appropriate for general education students in whole or part. Do your children also respond to questions in school without actually answering the actual questions too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why on an AAP forum are parents not able to stay on topic? This forum is not about AAP vs. gen. ed, how good the AAP program is, benefits of being at a center school for extracurriculars, whether bussing should be allowed from base schools with high AAP eligible students to centers, or how the current AAP program helps your child. There are other threads about all these things. It is about whether the AAP curriculum is appropriate for general education students in whole or part. Do your children also respond to questions in school without actually answering the actual questions too?

Yes, folks get off topic pretty quickly, especially if the question/comment is confusing or vague. The THREAD is about AAP being appropriate for GenED in raising the bar for all students and FORUM also includes all the things PP mentioned. So don't be an ass, especially if you don't "review your work before submitting." I think we can all work to raise the bar for students in this county, the separation isn't absolutely necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why on an AAP forum are parents not able to stay on topic? This forum is not about AAP vs. gen. ed, how good the AAP program is, benefits of being at a center school for extracurriculars, whether bussing should be allowed from base schools with high AAP eligible students to centers, or how the current AAP program helps your child. There are other threads about all these things. It is about whether the AAP curriculum is appropriate for general education students in whole or part. Do your children also respond to questions in school without actually answering the actual questions too?

Yes, folks get off topic pretty quickly, especially if the question/comment is confusing or vague. The THREAD is about AAP being appropriate for GenED in raising the bar for all students and FORUM also includes all the things PP mentioned. So don't be an ass, especially if you don't "review your work before submitting." I think we can all work to raise the bar for students in this county, the separation isn't absolutely necessary.

Well said!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why on an AAP forum are parents not able to stay on topic? This forum is not about AAP vs. gen. ed, how good the AAP program is, benefits of being at a center school for extracurriculars, whether bussing should be allowed from base schools with high AAP eligible students to centers, or how the current AAP program helps your child. There are other threads about all these things. It is about whether the AAP curriculum is appropriate for general education students in whole or part. Do your children also respond to questions in school without actually answering the actual questions too?

Yes, folks get off topic pretty quickly, especially if the question/comment is confusing or vague. The THREAD is about AAP being appropriate for GenED in raising the bar for all students and FORUM also includes all the things PP mentioned. So don't be an ass, especially if you don't "review your work before submitting." I think we can all work to raise the bar for students in this county, the separation isn't absolutely necessary.

I agree. Everyone should be taking the advanced curriculum, and those that need a slower pace should get it, but they should be doing the same material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why on an AAP forum are parents not able to stay on topic? This forum is not about AAP vs. gen. ed, how good the AAP program is, benefits of being at a center school for extracurriculars, whether bussing should be allowed from base schools with high AAP eligible students to centers, or how the current AAP program helps your child. There are other threads about all these things. It is about whether the AAP curriculum is appropriate for general education students in whole or part. Do your children also respond to questions in school without actually answering the actual questions too?

Yes, folks get off topic pretty quickly, especially if the question/comment is confusing or vague. The THREAD is about AAP being appropriate for GenED in raising the bar for all students and FORUM also includes all the things PP mentioned. So don't be an ass, especially if you don't "review your work before submitting." I think we can all work to raise the bar for students in this county, the separation isn't absolutely necessary.

I agree. Everyone should be taking the advanced curriculum, and those that need a slower pace should get it, but they should be doing the same material.

Honest question: Other than the "going deeper" that everyone mentions, isn't the curriculum (POS) the same for everyone? If AAP is advanced math, a third grader might get what another kid will get in fourth grade, right?