Make 350k-400k, feel middle class

[Anonymous]

In surprised no one has mentioned the growth of the dual income household as a driver over the last 30 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These liberal tax policies kill the productive middle class folks who make 150-500k.

Not sure if you were being funny, but I actually agree with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:$350-400K in this area *is* middle class.

Call it "upper middle class" if you like. It's not upper class.

We have doubled our income in the past 5 years. From just under $200K to just under $400K. How has life changed for us?
- regular expenses are covered as a matter of course (don't have to be constantly checking the bank balance to make sure there's enough to cover)
- we are now saving for college (on track to cover in-state tuition for our 2 kids)
- our cleaner comes every week instead of every other week
- we are taking more vacations (long weekends here and there in addition to longer August vacation)
- unexpected expenses can be handled fairly easily (the new roof gets paid for out of savings and we don't feel the pinch)

Seriously, that's about it. We are still driving the same cars. Kids still in public school. We are endlessly debating whether to move up from our 2200sq ft house but afraid to double the size of our mortgage (that's what it would take to stay inbounds for our current schools). We pay mega amounts of taxes (federal and state). We do NOT anticipate retiring at 55 with $5m in the bank. Definitely not on track for that.

I think this post is very accurate and describes us as well. We also doubled our income (from $180K to $360K) in the past 5 years (when one parent went back to work and the other got an increase in pay). I would have rolled my eyes to the heavens if you had told me when we were making $180K that $360K wouldn't really change our lifestyle much. But really, it hasn't. We do have a good deal more breathing room. We're now able to save adequately for retirement and college--as it we'll actually have a few million saved for retirement and will probably be able to pay for state school for the kids. We don't stress out about having an occasional sitter or night out. When the air conditioner compressor breaks like it did this week we don't have to stay up late worrying about how to replace it. However, we're by no means able to upgrade to the next level of house or buy luxury clothing or a beach house. Not that I expect to or need to obtain any of those things in my lifetime. But they are certainly still out of our reach.

Those who are saying that they "save" for retirement and college on incomes of $80K or $150K (both mentioned before in this post) may be saving but it's simply not possible that they're saving anywhere near enough (especially if they live in the DC area). The $80K poster would have to be saving half of their yearly income to do so. So to say, "I can have it all on $80K, what are you doing with $300K?" is silly. Most of us are doing exactly what we did on $80K with far more breathing room and a much better ability to save.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$350-400K in this area *is* middle class.

Call it "upper middle class" if you like. It's not upper class.

We have doubled our income in the past 5 years. From just under $200K to just under $400K. How has life changed for us?
- regular expenses are covered as a matter of course (don't have to be constantly checking the bank balance to make sure there's enough to cover)
- we are now saving for college (on track to cover in-state tuition for our 2 kids)
- our cleaner comes every week instead of every other week
- we are taking more vacations (long weekends here and there in addition to longer August vacation)
- unexpected expenses can be handled fairly easily (the new roof gets paid for out of savings and we don't feel the pinch)

Seriously, that's about it. We are still driving the same cars. Kids still in public school. We are endlessly debating whether to move up from our 2200sq ft house but afraid to double the size of our mortgage (that's what it would take to stay inbounds for our current schools). We pay mega amounts of taxes (federal and state). We do NOT anticipate retiring at 55 with $5m in the bank. Definitely not on track for that.

I think this post is very accurate and describes us as well. We also doubled our income (from $180K to $360K) in the past 5 years (when one parent went back to work and the other got an increase in pay). I would have rolled my eyes to the heavens if you had told me when we were making $180K that $360K wouldn't really change our lifestyle much. But really, it hasn't. We do have a good deal more breathing room. We're now able to save adequately for retirement and college--as it we'll actually have a few million saved for retirement and will probably be able to pay for state school for the kids. We don't stress out about having an occasional sitter or night out. When the air conditioner compressor breaks like it did this week we don't have to stay up late worrying about how to replace it. However, we're by no means able to upgrade to the next level of house or buy luxury clothing or a beach house. Not that I expect to or need to obtain any of those things in my lifetime. But they are certainly still out of our reach.

Those who are saying that they "save" for retirement and college on incomes of $80K or $150K (both mentioned before in this post) may be saving but it's simply not possible that they're saving anywhere near enough (especially if they live in the DC area). The $80K poster would have to be saving half of their yearly income to do so. So to say, "I can have it all on $80K, what are you doing with $300K?" is silly. Most of us are doing exactly what we did on $80K with far more breathing room and a much better ability to save.

Sure, but if you can get by on the oh-so-paltry sum of $80k, you don't NEED to save at the stratospheric rates of someone who feels $300k is necessary for an adequate lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this so difficult for people to understand? If you live in a big expensive city like DC, middle class is from $50-$500K a year. The numbers are easily available by using the google unction. If you live in a smaller city or town, adjust downward. Both are middle class. The middle class is large with a wide range. the upper class begins with a net worth of over $10M and is very different than shopping at DSW.

That is so insane and out-of-touch it is not even funny. You think a family living in this area on 50k and another family living on 500k are both middle class?

I was trying to be nice to the $50K people. Yes $500K is middle class. The upper classes are well hidden in the US. But there are 400,000 millionaires, so that is quite a few -- don't know if I would call them upper class, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the point of these threads?? Statistically, 400k/yr is a lot of money. More than most people make. But if you spend it all on SL repayments, mortgage, childcare, car loan, groceries, utilities, etc. yeah it's not going to *feel* like a lot. But that's true at any income level. If I make twice that and still manage to spend it all or most of it, does that make me middle class too OP? C'mon now.

I get that in a HCOL area, you're going to spend more $ on necessities vs. purely fun stuff. But don't forget that you're actually paying a premium just to live here. Just like you would in Manhattan, SF, SD, LA, etc. If you made 400/yr in Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Buffalo you'd have more to spend after paying your mortgage (and yes, before you bother protesting, each of those cities do have those types of jobs). But do you want to live in those places?

Give me $400K in Pittsburgh and I am out of here tomorrow. Let me know how much I got for my house and wire it to me.

+100 But we can't carry our income/ job there. Sigh.

[Anonymous]

No sympathy. Family of 4 living on $150k. Live below your means until the loans are paid off. You are better off than most people. Stop complaining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to feel like the upper, upper middle class family that you statistically are, then move to a less expensive area. You will be much happier.

Good advice, but do you deny the previous decades of washington area middle class is not the same as today's?

Two things:

1) 100K in 1985 buys the same as $220K today. http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=100%2C000.00&year1=1985&year2=2014

2) Your parents likely had more to spend because they did not have to contribute to their employer-provided health plan, and they also most likely spent less on retirement because they had a pension or a 401K match.

Inflation by itself makes most of the difference between your parents and you. Taking the stuff their employers paid for, adding it to your salary and making you pay for it explains the rest. So in fact you have the same standard of living as your parents because you make roughly the same amount they did. Sorry, you didn't move up.

If there's any left over, it's pretty easy to see where that's gone -- the price for a median-priced home in the DC area has gone from about $150K in 1987 to over $400K today. http://www.jparsons.net/housingbubble/washington.html

Thank you!

This post should be made sticky at the top of this page and required reading before anyone posts. FFS.

Sanity! For people today, health care costs more unless your employer provides it. Housing costs MUCH more. Cars are much more expensive -- but they last longer. Private school is much more -- but it was always for the upper middle and upper. And the 401K.

[Anonymous]

I'm 52.

I probably averaged 200 k my entire working life .

Live in an 800k house . Have 3 million net worth.

Totally satisfied financially but I'm kind of a minimalist. I never skimp on eating out or sporting events. Pretty much always vacation at the local beaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No sympathy. Family of 4 living on $150k. Live below your means until the loans are paid off. You are better off than most people. Stop complaining.

People are not complaining just stating the facts. That it feels like complaint to you is your problem, not theirs.

[Anonymous]

^^^ same guy. The best retirement plan is desireable rental properties. Save up the cash or 15 year mortgages. Expensive but the way to go. You are not spending anything ... It's like a bank account.

[Anonymous]

The key to live on less is to buy a house before 2000

[Anonymous]

We felt stretched at the same income, so we moved to the Philly 'burbs and don't feel that way anymore. Great public schools, and bought a 2700 ft house a block from the train for the price of our 1100 ft condo in Arlington.

We realized that we were solidly upper-upper middle class in DC, but the the real estate premium we were paying for choosing to live in such an expensive area was more than we wanted to spend.

[Anonymous]

First, I consider myself a social liberal but Democrat policies and taxes are hurting. Second, yes, DC has become more like NYC, one of those places I always knew that I could not afford to have a good life in, and therefore never desired to live in. The federal government would do many regions and people a great service by distributing federal work across the country. My federal salary back in Kentucky would fund me a very upper-class life indeed.

[Anonymous]

I think the real difference is retirement/college savings.

You $400k people feel poor AFTER you put all the money in savings. But you have fully funded retirement and college funds.

We $150k people just have to admit we won't be able to pay for college or retirement. It is what it is.