Make 350k-400k, feel middle class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That would give me an additional net $120k a least. I could literally do every single thing I wanted with that much money.

350k is only 180k after taxes (federal, state)

180k/12 = 15k/month. Student loans of 4k/month, rent, retirement , tithe, schooling .

Not a lot left. It's definitely middle class lifestyle.

We bring home 195K on ~330K per year while fully funding two 401s. It's a lot of money. People who say it isn't are simply in denial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP: 350k is solidly middle class on the eastern seaboard.

We should get public school vouchers as refunds on our tax dollars so we can send our children to the school of our choice, not a government school.

It takes ~500K to be in the top 1% in the DC metro area. 350K probably lands you in the top 3% or so. Not "solidly middle class".

[Anonymous]

The problem people are having with this is they don't get that "rich" feeling at that amount of money. They're sad they can't afford a posh address or the nicer car or perhaps the 2nd house. It's ridiculous, I know, but I fell in that trap because I thought $400k was supposed to come with certain things that I still couldn't afford.

I kept going, and now make an obscene amount of money and I FEEL wealthy. The feeling is a state of mind. I could have found it at $400k but it took a lot more for me to relax and get comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That would give me an additional net $120k a least. I could literally do every single thing I wanted with that much money.

350k is only 180k after taxes (federal, state)

180k/12 = 15k/month. Student loans of 4k/month, rent, retirement , tithe, schooling .

Not a lot left. It's definitely middle class lifestyle.

Spending all of your money doesn't change your class. It just makes you dumb. Maybe try cutting back a little and you will feel more like the class you are actually in.

This. You make tons of money. And you spend a lot of it. Doesn't make you middle class.

[Anonymous]

We are kissing $300. It's solid money. A little more would enable a lot, but that's always going to be the case.

So OP is nuts.

However... What is seriously sad in my view is that the basics: retirement, quality education, healthcare in your old age, a small nest egg for your kids when you pass - all of these things SHOULD be middle class but aren't.

It's ridiculous that it takes an income of $200 or $300 (or as some would argue, more) to achieve these basic fundamentals. Being middle class should afford you all of the above with perhaps some sacrifice - my parents generation experienced that to a large degree - but somewhere in the last 30 years that's changed.

This isn't a rant on the rich or even the shift of wealth, it's a lamentation that as a country we've forgotten that these basics should be basics. Today, when someone says they contribute to 401k, pay for school, have healthcare and a good emergency fund - we don't call them middle class - we call them rich or well off. That's just wrong.

Something needs to change in this country - retirement is now for the rich, quality education (much less college) only for the lucky or the wealthy. I love the US but sometimes it feels like this place has it's priorities all completely fucked.

Signed, middle class rich guy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are kissing $300. It's solid money. A little more would enable a lot, but that's always going to be the case.

So OP is nuts.

However... What is seriously sad in my view is that the basics: retirement, quality education, healthcare in your old age, a small nest egg for your kids when you pass - all of these things SHOULD be middle class but aren't.

It's ridiculous that it takes an income of $200 or $300 (or as some would argue, more) to achieve these basic fundamentals. Being middle class should afford you all of the above with perhaps some sacrifice - my parents generation experienced that to a large degree - but somewhere in the last 30 years that's changed.

This isn't a rant on the rich or even the shift of wealth, it's a lamentation that as a country we've forgotten that these basics should be basics. Today, when someone says they contribute to 401k, pay for school, have healthcare and a good emergency fund - we don't call them middle class - we call them rich or well off. That's just wrong.

Something needs to change in this country - retirement is now for the rich, quality education (much less college) only for the lucky or the wealthy. I love the US but soometimes it feels like this place has it's priorities all completely fucked.

Signed, middle class rich guy

I'm with you.

I'm someone who came from "nothing" and now am in the $5mm/yr+ camp and I know how truly privileged I am. I do as much as I can do personally to help others but the policies in place aren't going to fix anything. All of my companies pay 100% of healthcare for our employees and their families. In addition to that we're working to move to a 4-day work week (8hr days) in order to provide an opportunity for people to have more balance in their personal lives. I hate to say it but I don't think the income gap is going to get any better and taxes aren't going to fix the situation. Rich people really do get richer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are kissing $300. It's solid money. A little more would enable a lot, but that's always going to be the case.

So OP is nuts.

However... What is seriously sad in my view is that the basics: retirement, quality education, healthcare in your old age, a small nest egg for your kids when you pass - all of these things SHOULD be middle class but aren't.

It's ridiculous that it takes an income of $200 or $300 (or as some would argue, more) to achieve these basic fundamentals. Being middle class should afford you all of the above with perhaps some sacrifice - my parents generation experienced that to a large degree - but somewhere in the last 30 years that's changed.

This isn't a rant on the rich or even the shift of wealth, it's a lamentation that as a country we've forgotten that these basics should be basics. Today, when someone says they contribute to 401k, pay for school, have healthcare and a good emergency fund - we don't call them middle class - we call them rich or well off. That's just wrong.

Something needs to change in this country - retirement is now for the rich, quality education (much less college) only for the lucky or the wealthy. I love the US but sometimes it feels like this place has it's priorities all completely fucked.

Signed, middle class rich guy

This is it exactly. We make $350K. That means that we can save what "we're supposed to according to investment calculators" for college and retirement. We can own a home in the same city in which we work (DC). We can vacation once a year. We can afford to have 3 kids and have them all learn to play instruments, take swim lessons and play travel soccer if they want. The crazy thing is that my friends who ARE middle class (in DC and elsewhere) can't begin to afford to save adequately for retirement or college. They often can't afford to live in the city in which they work (be it DC or Albany NY or Chicago, etc.) They can't take vacations beyond a week of camping or a flight to see the grandparents.
The standards of living that were considered "middle class" for our parents' generation are now definitely reserved for the upper class (of which I fully admit to being part of at $350K).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are kissing $300. It's solid money. A little more would enable a lot, but that's always going to be the case.

So OP is nuts.

However... What is seriously sad in my view is that the basics: retirement, quality education, healthcare in your old age, a small nest egg for your kids when you pass - all of these things SHOULD be middle class but aren't.

It's ridiculous that it takes an income of $200 or $300 (or as some would argue, more) to achieve these basic fundamentals. Being middle class should afford you all of the above with perhaps some sacrifice - my parents generation experienced that to a large degree - but somewhere in the last 30 years that's changed.

This isn't a rant on the rich or even the shift of wealth, it's a lamentation that as a country we've forgotten that these basics should be basics. Today, when someone says they contribute to 401k, pay for school, have healthcare and a good emergency fund - we don't call them middle class - we call them rich or well off. That's just wrong.

Something needs to change in this country - retirement is now for the rich, quality education (much less college) only for the lucky or the wealthy. I love the US but sometimes it feels like this place has it's priorities all completely fucked.

Signed, middle class rich guy

This is it exactly. We make $350K. That means that we can save what "we're supposed to according to investment calculators" for college and retirement. We can own a home in the same city in which we work (DC). We can vacation once a year. We can afford to have 3 kids and have them all learn to play instruments, take swim lessons and play travel soccer if they want. The crazy thing is that my friends who ARE middle class (in DC and elsewhere) can't begin to afford to save adequately for retirement or college. They often can't afford to live in the city in which they work (be it DC or Albany NY or Chicago, etc.) They can't take vacations beyond a week of camping or a flight to see the grandparents.
The standards of living that were considered "middle class" for our parents' generation are now definitely reserved for the upper class (of which I fully admit to being part of at $350K).

I really disagree with this. I was middle class growing up, and the houses, new cars, gadgets etc. that people have now are way nicer than the majority of people had back then. We make ~350K and are living a much more upper class lifestyle than almost anybody I knew growing up in Fairfax in the 70s and 80s and are saving tons for retirement. I just think that people are viewing the past with rose tinted glasses.

[Anonymous]

We make 3-350k a year and are living the same lifestyle my parents did in fairfax county in the 90s making 100k a year. Not sure what happened but a large shift in housing costs contributed. In general everything shifted so that what used to be middle class is now upper middle and so on.

[Anonymous]

If you want to feel like the upper, upper middle class family that you statistically are, then move to a less expensive area. You will be much happier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want to feel like the upper, upper middle class family that you statistically are, then move to a less expensive area. You will be much happier.

Good advice, but do you deny the previous decades of washington area middle class is not the same as today's?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to feel like the upper, upper middle class family that you statistically are, then move to a less expensive area. You will be much happier.

Good advice, but do you deny the previous decades of washington area middle class is not the same as today's?

Two things:

1) 100K in 1985 buys the same as $220K today. http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=100%2C000.00&year1=1985&year2=2014

2) Your parents likely had more to spend because they did not have to contribute to their employer-provided health plan, and they also most likely spent less on retirement because they had a pension or a 401K match.

Inflation by itself makes most of the difference between your parents and you. Taking the stuff their employers paid for, adding it to your salary and making you pay for it explains the rest. So in fact you have the same standard of living as your parents because you make roughly the same amount they did. Sorry, you didn't move up.

If there's any left over, it's pretty easy to see where that's gone -- the price for a median-priced home in the DC area has gone from about $150K in 1987 to over $400K today. http://www.jparsons.net/housingbubble/washington.html

[Anonymous]

Yep. We're over $300K and have a lot in college and retirement savings (and a nice cash pas in the bank) but I don't feel I could throw $60K at a kitchen Reno without batting an eye, I don't buy expensive clothes, we drive an $11k car, and only own one! We do not live extravagantly and I feel comfortable but I can't fathom how people afford to save when they make less $. My brother makes $250k a year and confessed he doesn't have any $ saved for his 12 year olds college! I think keeping up w/ the joneses is half the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once you reach 300 to 400 you lose your deductions

Apparently, once you reach $300-400k you also lose your perspective on reality.

[Anonymous]

Our HHI is just shy of $200k. We feel decidedly upper middle class. We have been able to save sufficiently for retirement and for college for two children. It helps that we started saving from the getgo- so we never had to cut back to save.