Big College Admissions Year at St. Albans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also a former admissions staffer at a top SLAC (small world, PP) and a 3-time veteran of the college application process as a parent. While I would agree with much of what the other former admissions staffer says -- e.g., the middle of the class benefits most from the college counseling services offered by many independent schools, parents need to inform themselves and ask questions of college counselors -- I would hesitate to describe independent school counselors as hand-holding families through the application process. Independent school counselors do a great service to the applicants by coordinating the flow of transcripts and recommendations -- a service that public schools cannot offer due to the number of students. Similarly, independent school counselors can write more detailed and nuanced school recommendation letters for students -- again because of class size as well as the availability of detailed teacher reports. In our experience (at a "Big 3" school), however, the counselors did not provide much help at all on essays, nor, more fundamentally on developing a list of colleges to visit or, ultimately, to apply to. Perhaps that's not the case at every independent school, but that's what we found.

"Parents need to inform themselves and ask questions of college counselors."

After going through NCS' college application process, I completely agree. Basically all my DD's counselor did was coordinated submitting transcripts and recs. There were no special calls to schools. DD learned during a meeting that her counselor hadn't placed any followup calls on her behalf and was asked if she had received any emails/feedback from her schools. We figured that we were on our own, it was around January at this point. Fortunately, my DD was in the top third of her class. We did a lot of the footwork ourselves, she was accepted at her first choice school.

Counselors play triage. Your DD didn't need the support because that counselor was likely certain that she would get in on her own. No need to waste chits on her. The counselor saved them for other students. Not necessarily fair, but your DD was fine.

Yes, she was fine, but it certainly was an agonizing experience. Without her counselor's support she was accepted into several, highly-selective colleges and a few ivy leagues, not HYP. Naviance was helpful, and as I said she was in the top third of her class, gpa range 3.45 - 3.48 with strong SAT and other board scores. DD is sure that the strength of her essay was key.

[Anonymous]

Does it help to hire a private college counselor?

If the same families hire educational counselors for pre-K and Big 3 why would they not hire same for HYP? (...and they do)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also a former admissions staffer at a top SLAC (small world, PP) and a 3-time veteran of the college application process as a parent. While I would agree with much of what the other former admissions staffer says -- e.g., the middle of the class benefits most from the college counseling services offered by many independent schools, parents need to inform themselves and ask questions of college counselors -- I would hesitate to describe independent school counselors as hand-holding families through the application process. Independent school counselors do a great service to the applicants by coordinating the flow of transcripts and recommendations -- a service that public schools cannot offer due to the number of students. Similarly, independent school counselors can write more detailed and nuanced school recommendation letters for students -- again because of class size as well as the availability of detailed teacher reports. In our experience (at a "Big 3" school), however, the counselors did not provide much help at all on essays, nor, more fundamentally on developing a list of colleges to visit or, ultimately, to apply to. Perhaps that's not the case at every independent school, but that's what we found.

"Parents need to inform themselves and ask questions of college counselors."

After going through NCS' college application process, I completely agree. Basically all my DD's counselor did was coordinated submitting transcripts and recs. There were no special calls to schools. DD learned during a meeting that her counselor hadn't placed any followup calls on her behalf and was asked if she had received any emails/feedback from her schools. We figured that we were on our own, it was around January at this point. Fortunately, my DD was in the top third of her class. We did a lot of the footwork ourselves, she was accepted at her first choice school.

Counselors play triage. Your DD didn't need the support because that counselor was likely certain that she would get in on her own. No need to waste chits on her. The counselor saved them for other students. Not necessarily fair, but your DD was fine.

Yes, she was fine, but it certainly was an agonizing experience. Without her counselor's support she was accepted into several, highly-selective colleges and a few ivy leagues, not HYP. Naviance was helpful, and as I said she was in the top third of her class, gpa range 3.45 - 3.48 with strong SAT and other board scores. DD is sure that the strength of her essay was key.

I'm sure she is smart and an excellent writer but 3.48 is not HYP range these days, even from strong schools such as NCS.

[Anonymous]

I'm the other former admissions staffer. Again, based on my admissions experience and my parent experience (3 kids -- all in top 25% of class, all accepted early at first-choice schools), the school counselor wasn't a big factor. I do think the other former staffer is correct in saying that counselors can be more involved during the wait-list stage, however. If others have had a different experience, I'd love to hear what the counselors at their kids' schools did that was so helpful.

As for the poster who suggested that the NCS student's counselor was triaging. Perhaps so, but that family's experience may still be informative for parents of younger students who often go into the process believing that the counselor will wave a a magic wand and the child will be accepted by his/her first choice school. (Sometimes the counselors actually create this perception in a way reminiscent of the Wizard of Oz.)

Finally, and most importantly, I would say that as a parent I value very highly the educational opportunities my children's secondary school provided them, totally apart from the college admissions outcome. They graduated/will graduate from high school well prepared for college and eager to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also a former admissions staffer at a top SLAC (small world, PP) and a 3-time veteran of the college application process as a parent. While I would agree with much of what the other former admissions staffer says -- e.g., the middle of the class benefits most from the college counseling services offered by many independent schools, parents need to inform themselves and ask questions of college counselors -- I would hesitate to describe independent school counselors as hand-holding families through the application process. Independent school counselors do a great service to the applicants by coordinating the flow of transcripts and recommendations -- a service that public schools cannot offer due to the number of students. Similarly, independent school counselors can write more detailed and nuanced school recommendation letters for students -- again because of class size as well as the availability of detailed teacher reports. In our experience (at a "Big 3" school), however, the counselors did not provide much help at all on essays, nor, more fundamentally on developing a list of colleges to visit or, ultimately, to apply to. Perhaps that's not the case at every independent school, but that's what we found.

"Parents need to inform themselves and ask questions of college counselors."

After going through NCS' college application process, I completely agree. Basically all my DD's counselor did was coordinated submitting transcripts and recs. There were no special calls to schools. DD learned during a meeting that her counselor hadn't placed any followup calls on her behalf and was asked if she had received any emails/feedback from her schools. We figured that we were on our own, it was around January at this point. Fortunately, my DD was in the top third of her class. We did a lot of the footwork ourselves, she was accepted at her first choice school.

Counselors play triage. Your DD didn't need the support because that counselor was likely certain that she would get in on her own. No need to waste chits on her. The counselor saved them for other students. Not necessarily fair, but your DD was fine.

Yes, she was fine, but it certainly was an agonizing experience. Without her counselor's support she was accepted into several, highly-selective colleges and a few ivy leagues, not HYP. Naviance was helpful, and as I said she was in the top third of her class, gpa range 3.45 - 3.48 with strong SAT and other board scores. DD is sure that the strength of her essay was key.

I'm sure she is smart and an excellent writer but 3.48 is not HYP range these days, even from strong schools such as NCS.

HYP was mentioned in my post for clarity, merely saying that these weren't the ivy league schools she was accepted at.

She didn't apply to HYP.

[Anonymous]

I'm an NCS mom and I think your DD did great, especially with that GPA. Its an excellent GPA by NCS standards but not as high as generally gets into highly selective schools and Ivys.

Maybe I'm wrong here but I thought the counselor's job was to work with the students, to help them through the process, and not to work the colleges. It would create all sorts of conflicts of interest if the counselor's responsibility was to advocate everywhere for all students. I am certainly not expecting that when my DD applies to schools.

Perhaps your DD went to Beauvoir or another private before NCS and you are comparing this to the process of applying to subsequent private schools. It really is very different. I think your expectations weren't reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an NCS mom and I think your DD did great, especially with that GPA. Its an excellent GPA by NCS standards but not as high as generally gets into highly selective schools and Ivys.

Maybe I'm wrong here but I thought the counselor's job was to work with the students, to help them through the process, and not to work the colleges. It would create all sorts of conflicts of interest if the counselor's responsibility was to advocate everywhere for all students. I am certainly not expecting that when my DD applies to schools.

Perhaps your DD went to Beauvoir or another private before NCS and you are comparing this to the process of applying to subsequent private schools. It really is very different. I think your expectations weren't reasonable.

My DD's counselor submitted electronically the school's profile, a narrative about my daughter (a compilation of our responses from a form) her transcript, and teacher recs. Met with us once/twice and DD a couple of times and asked her what schools she's applying to and if there were any additionals to add to the upload list. No guidance. There were three counselors and 77 girls in the graduating class.

Okay...my expectations were too high. Good luck when your DD applies to schools, seriously.

[Anonymous]

3.45 to 3.48 on what range? And is that weighted?

[Anonymous]

10:57 again. I see the issues, she certainly should have guided your DD through the process more, suggested schools that sort of thing.

No, NCS does not weigh GPAs and does not assign grades over A and does not the grade inflation other schools have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the other former admissions staffer. Again, based on my admissions experience and my parent experience (3 kids -- all in top 25% of class, all accepted early at first-choice schools), the school counselor wasn't a big factor. I do think the other former staffer is correct in saying that counselors can be more involved during the wait-list stage, however. If others have had a different experience, I'd love to hear what the counselors at their kids' schools did that was so helpful.

As for the poster who suggested that the NCS student's counselor was triaging. Perhaps so, but that family's experience may still be informative for parents of younger students who often go into the process believing that the counselor will wave a a magic wand and the child will be accepted by his/her first choice school. (Sometimes the counselors actually create this perception in a way reminiscent of the Wizard of Oz.)

Finally, and most importantly, I would say that as a parent I value very highly the educational opportunities my children's secondary school provided them, totally apart from the college admissions outcome. They graduated/will graduate from high school well prepared for college and eager to learn.

The OTHER former admissions staffer here I completely agree with you here. When I meet parents who talk about the secondary school they selected based on desired college outcomes, I cringe. No counselor can wave a magic wand with a highly selective school. They all know this, but I do know that some independent schools are guilty of alluding to this possibility when trying to sell their school's placement success to prospective families.

[Anonymous]

I'm more interested in how much help private school counselors provide in helping find good choices for individual students. Not just, here's where you have a good shot of getting in, but info on which schools have strong departments in the student's field of interest, or have a strong dance or theater program, or whatever. Do they know/visit enough of the schools to be discriminating about that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:3.45 to 3.48 on what range? And is that weighted?

No, not weighted, but she was on the honors math track and took 4 AP courses which she scored 5s on each test.

[Anonymous]

That is an awful GPA anywhere.

[Anonymous]

My DD graduated from a local private school and our view was that the college counselors helped with 1)providing data on what the school's admission history was with a particular college 2) helping with the transcript/recommendation process 3) helping brainstorm essays (but no help in editing them, as we discovered at about 11:30 pm before one midnight deadline) 4) writing a good recommendation.

They were not much help in identifying schools, my DD did that on her own and the ones they suggested she hated. I don't think they did any calling/cajoling in the admissions process, although they may have met with the admissions reps when they were on campus. But those visits were early in the process and most kids had not settled on their application list at that point. It is not clear to me that they were any help in the WL process and my DD was WLed at her two top choices.

I understand at some schools the counselors strongly discourage some kids from applying to some of the top schools if they think they can't get in. Our school did not do that, although they did help to identify reach schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is an awful GPA anywhere.[/quote

Um, no. Do you know NCS? Her DD would likely have earned a 4.5 at any of the top local public high schools. NCS does not grade infate, nor does it give A's freely.