Child killed by Neighborhood Watch captain while walking home

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:woops. the "reread your last sentence" was aimed at hte pp who said the op was allowing "reason to overcome emotion." You mean the opposite.

We all THINK we know what happened: A racist sonofabitch shot and killed a black boy who didn't belong in the neighborhood. And that is quite likely what did, in fact, happen. But it isn't yet proven, so to start demanding "street justice" is premature.

But he did belong in the neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

History does prove that many young black men were senselessly murdered by racist white men (who were never punished). The black American psyche still has not recovered, and probably never will. Especially given that many black people in this country lived under Jim Crow and lived with the atrocities that whites in America inflicted upon blacks. You expect people to be able to get over that and pretend that we now live in a post-racial world where this was not racially motivated? Get real. My grandmother is 90 and still shakes when she sees policemen because she remembers her father being dragged out of their home on the Eastern Shore of MD and beaten almost to death by the local police chief and his deputy in 1930 when she was 6 years old. His offense? Selling more pigs than a neighboring white farmer. They also shot all of his livestock. Most white people do not believe me when I tell this story. No wonder I am an angry black woman.

Given the facts available in this situation, it is not a leap to conjecture that Zimmerman's zeal to follow Martin was racially motivated and that he chose to shoot him because that same prejudice that led him to follow Martin also led him to believe that Martin was dangerous.

I

In 1974, I witnessed the Prince Georges County police beat my uncle in the head until my uncle was bent face down on the ground. My uncle had recently returned from during a tour of duty in Korea. My uncle's crime was mistaken identity. Fuck that bitch who said that because something that systematically happened to black men time after time is a false leap of assumption that the present murder was not racially motivated

[Anonymous]

To the poster who is all "oh, we don't know what really happened" on this thread. It's one thing to not be out for blood just yet, and to say we don't know what happened, but absent one person talking about street justice, most people on this thread just want an arrest made and a proper investigation conducted. We want to see Zimmerman stand trial for this. To not even arrest him? That's just crazy.

And the scenario you set up, where one person goes up to someone, confronts them, and then an altercation ensues and the initiator draws a weapon and shoots? Still merits and arrest and charges.

Let's paint another scenario. A "black guy" is following your white, 17 year old daughter, who is walking alone on a dark street, in a car. He gets out of the car and walks up to her, confronts her, starts questioning her like he is some kind of official, but he has no badge and is not in a police car. Your daughter begins to put up a fight, and begins to win the fight. The "black guy" shoots her dead.

Would the black guy be arrested? Should he? Or should the police just ASSUME it was self defense? I think we allll know the answer. He would have been arrested.

I mean, holy shit. There is inherent racism in the fact that the police assumed self defense, but besides the racism, I want to know what the protocol was. How is it possible he was not arrested at least? It's one thing for them to arrest him, bring him to trial, and have a judge dismiss charges or a jury acquit him on self defense, but how do the police offers get to play judge and jury?

What's killing me is that this is not making more headlines. If you note the petition, it does not say "please go conduct vigilante justice." It asks for an investigation. Which starts with a proper arrest. UNBELIEVABLE that this has not yet happened.

And BTW, to the people who are saying "yes, I know, bad stuff has happened in the past, let's move on." Are you KIDDING me? Bad stuff is still happening, honey.

And before you think this is some kind of reverse racism or I'm an angry black individual, let me assure you I'm lily white. I'm sickened, sickened, sickened by this. And the people who defend this guy? Defend what he did and then are defending the complete failure to arrest him?

What the fuck is wrong with you?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Anonymous]

Sorry, somehow I clipped part of my message and posted an unedited version. I want to edit the scenario I posted because I think it is important. This is why this is a race issue. so here goes:

Let's paint another scenario. A "black guy" is following your white, 17 year old daughter, who is walking alone on a dark street, in a car. He gets out of the car and walks up to her, confronts her, starts questioning her like he is some kind of official, but he has no badge and is not in a police car. Your daughter begins to put up a fight, and begins to win the fight. The "black guy" shoots her dead.

Would the black guy be arrested? Should he? Or should the police just ASSUME it was self defense? I think we allll know the answer. He would have been arrested. Under any scenario, someone who confronts another person and ultimately shoots them should face a thorough investigation. But in reality, think about how silly the scenario above, would be. No policeman in his right mind would arrive on the scene, see a dead white girl and a black man with a gun, and just decide it was self defense, even if the black man said it went down exactly as it did. Even if there was a 911 phone call where the black guy called in and said the girl was suspicious. It just would not be believable.

But swap out the characters for our black teen victim and white male shooter, and then the bias is clear. Of COURSE the white guy was just defending himself, concluded the cops. The other guy was a SCARY BLACK TEEN! We all know what they are capable of, right?

So, even though some of you racist assholes may think that it's fair enough to be scared of black teenagers because of the actions of some of them, the law is a different story. It is not actually legal to just drive around taking black kids out, as much as many of the fucked up individuals in this country might like that.

So the criminal justice system is not ALLOWED to just assume "white dude vs. black teen - must have been self defense for the white guy" in that way.

WHERE is the arrest here? Why is there no more info on this? And for those of you defending this guy, be thankful. Maybe you will be reincarnated as a black man in your next life. Or perhaps more agonizing, a black mother of boys.

This thread is as depressing as the act of violence it discusses.

[Anonymous]

21:05/21:14,

I agree with you 100%.

I'm the one who posted about "street justice". I clarified this later. I was talking about the father of the teen. I was a bit angry at the time and was explaining (badly) that if this were my child and the killer got away, I would seek my own justice. Yes, it's bad. No, it's not condoned/encouraged. No it won't bring my child back. But I would not be able to live with myself if I did not get to this guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:21:05/21:14,

I agree with you 100%.

I'm the one who posted about "street justice". I clarified this later. I was talking about the father of the teen. I was a bit angry at the time and was explaining (badly) that if this were my child and the killer got away, I would seek my own justice. Yes, it's bad. No, it's not condoned/encouraged. No it won't bring my child back. But I would not be able to live with myself if I did not get to this guy.

I understand and think that any of us could feel this way.

[Anonymous]

Also:

George Zimmerman was arrested for violence before:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1335984.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also:

George Zimmerman was arrested for violence before:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1335984.html

If this is true and police told the family that Zimmerman had a "squeaky clean" record, this is even more despicable. If true, this really is outrageous.

[Anonymous]

I find it very interesting that not a single news outlet has published a picture of George Zimmerman. No reporter has been able to get one from facebook, a college id, or anywhere? This is so odd.

[Anonymous]

Why is there a volunteer neighborhood watch in a gated community? It doesn't look like what most people think of when they think of gated community. Does the killer still live there? I would think that might not be a good idea considering the victim's family lives there. Was his place mysterious trashed?

[Anonymous]

Zimmerman's phone is disconnected and no one has seen him for days. He must be in hiding. I think it is crazy that he wasn't arrested because he could leave the country to escape charges. it is very easy to get lost in Mexico. Or take a flight from Orlando to a Caribbean island and lay low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also:

George Zimmerman was arrested for violence before:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1335984.html

If this is true and police told the family that Zimmerman had a "squeaky clean" record, this is even more despicable. If true, this really is outrageous.

I agree that Zimmerman should have been arrested for the investigation because he is a prime suspect in a possible homicide. However, I'm not sure that the prior is actually for the same man. All of the news articles I've seen to date report that George Zimmerman, responsible for the current crime is a 26 year old man. The arrest record for George Zimmerman from 2005 lists that he was a 28 year old man which would make him 34-35 years old now. George Zimmerman is not a particularly unusual name and it is possible that the prior is for a different person.

In any event, even without that, there should be enough suspicion to at least detain him, set bond and have him pay a bond for his release. I'm the one who posted earlier that I think it should be a federal hate crime case and be taken out of the local jurisdiction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, exactly. The PP who is saying we don't know what happened is either an idiot or trying to incite debate. Nothing would have happened if Zimmerman had followed police instructions.

New poster here. She is not either of those things. What she is tryingt o say (and hopefully I do a better job of it) is that, in our justice system, the jury will hear testimony about various things in this case. There will be the initial 911 call. There will be testimony from the police officer, and the medical examiner, and some or all of the people who called 911 to report the fight and others who may have overheard it or seen it.

Out the facts will come, bit by bit, and the jury mus decide what is true and what isn't. We do not yet know all fot he facts that will be presented to the jury. We do not know, for example, if all of the witnesses said the kid was beating the crap out of GZ and saying that he was going to kill him (seems unlikely, but we don't know). We also don't know whether GZ yelled during the fight, "I am going to take care of your sorry N***** a**." We don't know that, either.

Too often, people make up their minds without all of the facts.

In a case like this, to me it certainly looks exactly like what many PPs are suggesting is true. We ultimately won't know for sure. There are many sides to the truth. There isn't just one truth. People's perceptions are shaded by their own experiences and also by their involvement in the situaiton. You may have two witnesses to the exact same fight, and one says GZ sounded angry and confrontational and the other one saying he sounded nice. One isn't necessarily lying. I think of it sort of like nstant replays. SOmetimes you need all the camera angles, and even then it isn't always clear.

Ultiamtely, what matters is that the police should be investigating this thoroguhlty and they should arrest this guy if they have grounds to do so. It's hard to see why they don't. But we don't know what's on the 911 tape and we also don't know what the witnesses said. There could deifntiely be some things on that tape that would warrant a DOJ investigation into the failure to arrest or there could be some other factor (like it turns out Mr. Criminal Justice Major did an internship at the PD or osmething).

We don't know now where this will go, although from where I sit it's pretty hard to see how there could be any angle but the obvious one. I, however, do not get to make any decisions here since I am not the FL police or prosecutor, and I will not be eligible to serve on a FL jury.

[Anonymous]

Sorry for all the typos in my post. It's late and I'm tired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, exactly. The PP who is saying we don't know what happened is either an idiot or trying to incite debate. Nothing would have happened if Zimmerman had followed police instructions.

New poster here. She is not either of those things. What she is tryingt o say (and hopefully I do a better job of it) is that, in our justice system, the jury will hear testimony about various things in this case. There will be the initial 911 call. There will be testimony from the police officer, and the medical examiner, and some or all of the people who called 911 to report the fight and others who may have overheard it or seen it.

Out the facts will come, bit by bit, and the jury mus decide what is true and what isn't. We do not yet know all fot he facts that will be presented to the jury. We do not know, for example, if all of the witnesses said the kid was beating the crap out of GZ and saying that he was going to kill him (seems unlikely, but we don't know). We also don't know whether GZ yelled during the fight, "I am going to take care of your sorry N***** a**." We don't know that, either.

Too often, people make up their minds without all of the facts.

In a case like this, to me it certainly looks exactly like what many PPs are suggesting is true. We ultimately won't know for sure. There are many sides to the truth. There isn't just one truth. People's perceptions are shaded by their own experiences and also by their involvement in the situaiton. You may have two witnesses to the exact same fight, and one says GZ sounded angry and confrontational and the other one saying he sounded nice. One isn't necessarily lying. I think of it sort of like nstant replays. SOmetimes you need all the camera angles, and even then it isn't always clear.

Ultiamtely, what matters is that the police should be investigating this thoroguhlty and they should arrest this guy if they have grounds to do so. It's hard to see why they don't. But we don't know what's on the 911 tape and we also don't know what the witnesses said. There could deifntiely be some things on that tape that would warrant a DOJ investigation into the failure to arrest or there could be some other factor (like it turns out Mr. Criminal Justice Major did an internship at the PD or osmething).

We don't know now where this will go, although from where I sit it's pretty hard to see how there could be any angle but the obvious one. I, however, do not get to make any decisions here since I am not the FL police or prosecutor, and I will not be eligible to serve on a FL jury.

How will facts come out in the case when there is no arrest? Do you really think that justice is truly served in every case. That police never error intentionally or accidentally? That they don't turn a blind eye? That money doesn't talk? I think it is really naive to think that if any wrongdoing happened then he will be arrested and found guilty. He could be 100% guilty and never arrested or tried. I have a feeling if this was a black man shooting a white teen in an affluent neighborhood you wouldn't be so concerned about not in any way presuming any guilt, you'd be calling for blood.