Regret public school for your kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[
Interesting point regarding the safety of pp's local middle and high school. I think it highlights an important factor that people overlook in the public/private school decision - what kind of environment do you want your children to be in on a daily basis? I went to DCPS all the way through, and I got so much value from being surrounded by a diverse, and yes, at times, dangerous populations of kids from different parts of the city. I learned a lot about life - no amount of curriculum could have taught me the equivalent lessons in street smarts, socioeconomics, and just generally how to navigate in a world that isn't always easy. My parents thought about taking me out of DCPS and putting me in private school, but I'm so glad they didn't. Once I got to college, I could see the differences between kids that had gone to private schools where they were protected from a lot of the responsibilities and realities of the real world, and those who went to public schools where those realities were front and center. I think the public school kids were generally better equipped to navigate on their own through college and take advantage of all the academic opportunities, whereas the private school kids were a little more content to rest on their laurels and were less adventurous. That's a generalization of course, but when I think about where to send my children, I always take into account more than just the academics of the school. While I don't want them in a school where all they're going to learn is street smarts and scrappy survival skills, I also don't want them in such a rarefied environment that they will be ill-prepared to deal with the world on their own terms. I know a lot of people are after that rarefied environment though, and I would agree that the best way to get that is to go to a private school. I think a parent expecting that from a public school would be disappointed.

My feelings exactly -- my dd has learned a lot about life from going to public school with all kinds of kids. Not that private schools don't have a lot to offer and are sometimes the best choice for a kid, but it's important to not discount the value in learning how other people live -- and not just doing it through fulfilling your community service hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[
Interesting point regarding the safety of pp's local middle and high school. I think it highlights an important factor that people overlook in the public/private school decision - what kind of environment do you want your children to be in on a daily basis? I went to DCPS all the way through, and I got so much value from being surrounded by a diverse, and yes, at times, dangerous populations of kids from different parts of the city. I learned a lot about life - no amount of curriculum could have taught me the equivalent lessons in street smarts, socioeconomics, and just generally how to navigate in a world that isn't always easy. My parents thought about taking me out of DCPS and putting me in private school, but I'm so glad they didn't. Once I got to college, I could see the differences between kids that had gone to private schools where they were protected from a lot of the responsibilities and realities of the real world, and those who went to public schools where those realities were front and center. I think the public school kids were generally better equipped to navigate on their own through college and take advantage of all the academic opportunities, whereas the private school kids were a little more content to rest on their laurels and were less adventurous. That's a generalization of course, but when I think about where to send my children, I always take into account more than just the academics of the school. While I don't want them in a school where all they're going to learn is street smarts and scrappy survival skills, I also don't want them in such a rarefied environment that they will be ill-prepared to deal with the world on their own terms. I know a lot of people are after that rarefied environment though, and I would agree that the best way to get that is to go to a private school. I think a parent expecting that from a public school would be disappointed.

I think there's a lot of truth in this, but for us, it sounds more important for DC's high school experience. I don't think our elementary-school-aged DC needs to learn these things quite yet, and we would prefer that DC remain sheltered a while longer! On a personal note, I went to a large public elementary school and do remember being frightened and overwhelmed by the sheer noise and crowds--35 years later, I still remember being jostled constantly and having to practically fight your way through groups of fourth and fifth-graders returning from the playground as we first-graders went from class to recess. It was frightening to a small child. Many of the comments posted here earlier regarding how in MCPS the lunchroom, playground, etc., are so overcrowded give me pause. Noise and crowds that seem normal to an adult can be quite overwhelming/scary to a young child.

[Anonymous]

PP here: just to clarify: I think I hit a wrong button; in my just-posted message, the lower half is what I was writing; it's not a prior quote, despite being in blue. The upper half was the previous quote. Sorry for any confusion!

[Anonymous]

What I always find so interesting about this topic, which comes up regularly on DCUM, is how unique each family's reasons are for choosing either public or private. There are so many factors and the importance of those factors varies widely for different folks. It makes me wonder why folks are so adamant and/or defensive about their own decision versus others' decisions.

[Anonymous]

Good point, PP!

[Anonymous]

12:32, I'm the poster you quoted. That's a good point you make - my elementary school was small. I'm aslo a bit taken aback by the reports of 100+ kindergartners as MoCo public schools, since that's where we'd be sending DD. Other pp, you're so right - the choices people make surrounding education are so individual, but I like hearing everyone's viewpoint because when someday DD asks me about private school (which we couldn't afford even if we wanted to), I can accurately articulate why people send their kids there.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the PP that public schools allow a child to be exposed to all sorts of people and develop "street smarts." That is one of the reasons we are glad that we sent our kids to DC public elementary school (although in fairness, there's nothing "dangerous" about the students at our elementary school in upper NW!). Our kids are open minded and very comfortable with all sorts of people as a result of this (and, I hope, because of how we're raising them). However, for middle and high school, I feel that the academic advantages (as well as having a calm and supportive environment) that the privates offer outweigh the social exposure of DCPS. I know of many a kid that found college a much easier transitition than their DCPS peers who were underprepared for college level. We'll take care of the social stuff at home. It's the calculus that we can't teach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is why I don't understand the many parents on DCUM who say their plan is elementary = public, then secondary = private. What are some of the reasons for putting the 5 year olds in bustling, large and possibly anonymous environments but then going small-scale for the 16 year olds who have had 11 years to develop coping/communicating/self-help skills? Is it curriculum? Differences in college placement assistance? Drama departments?

There are two main reasons that we are planning for public for elementary school for our child and then will likely either move to a better school district so we can continue public for middle/high school, or switch to private.

1. Curriculum. My husband and I are capable of filling in gaps in an elementary curriculum, and supplementing what the public school offers with outside lessons, etc. I'm not as sure we could do that in high school, as the curriculum gets more advanced and structured resources (extracurriculars, college placement, AP classes, etc.) are more important. (I don't think it's accurate to say that a five-year-old, even in most public schools, is in a possibly anonymous environment. This is not the case for our local elementary schools and I doubt it is the case for most.)

3. SAFETY. This is the biggest one for us. Our local elementary schools are safe. We can't say the same thing for our local middle and high school, when, at worst, many of our child's classmates might actually be dangerous and, at best, many would pose a real distraction.

Interesting point regarding the safety of pp's local middle and high school. I think it highlights an important factor that people overlook in the public/private school decision - what kind of environment do you want your children to be in on a daily basis? I went to DCPS all the way through, and I got so much value from being surrounded by a diverse, and yes, at times, dangerous populations of kids from different parts of the city. I learned a lot about life - no amount of curriculum could have taught me the equivalent lessons in street smarts, socioeconomics, and just generally how to navigate in a world that isn't always easy. My parents thought about taking me out of DCPS and putting me in private school, but I'm so glad they didn't. Once I got to college, I could see the differences between kids that had gone to private schools where they were protected from a lot of the responsibilities and realities of the real world, and those who went to public schools where those realities were front and center. I think the public school kids were generally better equipped to navigate on their own through college and take advantage of all the academic opportunities, whereas the private school kids were a little more content to rest on their laurels and were less adventurous. That's a generalization of course, but when I think about where to send my children, I always take into account more than just the academics of the school. While I don't want them in a school where all they're going to learn is street smarts and scrappy survival skills, I also don't want them in such a rarefied environment that they will be ill-prepared to deal with the world on their own terms. I know a lot of people are after that rarefied environment though, and I would agree that the best way to get that is to go to a private school. I think a parent expecting that from a public school would be disappointed.

I too went through DCPS and was overwhelmed and scared much of the time. I cannot tell you how much I hated it - stomach-ache-I-refuse-to-go-school-hated it. My grades suffered, my self-image suffered. My parents pulled me out and put me in private for the end of jr. high and high school. I thrived and was able to make friends and concentrate on school work, not how to navigate through hostile hallways. I'm sure much of my misery was a result of my being shy and introverted. I'm not saying that public schools are terrible for everyone, but it was a terrible for me. IMO, elementary school is not the time to teach your kids how to "toughen up".

[Anonymous]

11:20, I'm the PP you initially quoted who wrote about safety in middle school and high school. I completely agree with you, and that's why we are probably much more likely to move to a better public school system than we are to try to navigate the D.C. private school waters. I was just attempting to explain to another PP why it makes sense for a lot of people to go to public school for elementary and then make the switch, as opposed to the other way around.

My husband and I were both the product of good public high schools (where "good" equals just that -- good, safe, suburban, but certainly nothing super special or hyper-competitive) and I would much rather have our child repeat our experience than go to a more rarefied, privileged private school. That's why we're so gung-ho about public school for elementary -- we don't have the same safety concerns we'd have in middle or high school yet, so we'd much rather stick with the public school system. And there are D.C. public high schools we'd consider, just probably not the one we're zoned for. I'd love to be a trailblazer, but I don't necessarily want my child to be the guinea pig, you know? It's a fine line -- we'd rather have our daughter in a public school, but not just any public school -- i.e., it doesn't have to be Whitman, but we wouldn't be willing to send to Ballou either (that's not where we're zoned -- just an example). Along those same lines, we'd probably still prefer an acceptable-to-pretty-good public school over a supposedly superb and prestigious private school like Sidwell.

For us, though, all this is strictly theoretical at this point. Our daughter is just a baby, so we don't know where we'll live, how the public schools will be, or, most importantly, in what kind of environment she will actually thrive.

In the meantime, we're more than happy to plan on public for elementary and then see what happens after that.

[Anonymous]

PP, it's easy to write that now, but when your DD is 13, you will probably be singing a different tune.

No one wants have their child be the guinea pig. Until a group of parents are willing to take it on, things won't change.

[Anonymous]

I'm 11:20 - I wouldn't send my kid to Ballou either. The DCPS HS I attended was Wilson - still plenty of kids that were potentially dangerous and certainly a bad influence, but plenty of kids who were not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, it's easy to write that now, but when your DD is 13, you will probably be singing a different tune.

No one wants have their child be the guinea pig. Until a group of parents are willing to take it on, things won't change.

I don't see how sending my white upper-middle class DC of highly educated parents to a school where other white upper-middle class children of highly educated parents also attend is making her a guinea pig.

The difference is that our kids are going to school with kids from all over the city (and in some cases all over the world since my kid had classmates from France, Italy, Argentina, Iran, and Belgium to name a few in elementary school) from all kinds of backgrounds (poor, working class, lower-middle-class to upper-middle-class) and all races and ethnicities (black, white, Asian, Latino). Oh and gee, more than a few of those kids are going on to be successful students at both private and public schools (mine included). It hasn't been an experiment at all for us.

But as I've said before, you have to match the kid to the right school. I don't have a problem if people don't want to send their kids to public schools because it's not the right choice for the kid. I get annoyed when they act like I'm experimenting with my child's future in order to justify their own choices.

[Anonymous]

Honest parents would agree that we are experimenting on our children regarding nearly ALL decisions that we make. The bottom line is we want what's best for our kids ... to the extent we can figure out what "best" is. The extent to which we should balance what seems best for our kids versus everyone's kids is a different question that often comes up on DCUM. Hence the "guinea pig" reference ...

[Anonymous]

If you need any additional reasons to go private, just listen to the ad on this link -- featuring Jamie Leigh Curtis (the actress).

http://www.greatschools.net/content/actionForEducation.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are some other studies that address the sizes of 20. They look at all instruction and some actually come out of the military.

Would love some actual data as opposed to vague promises of such--first it was suggested to read the STAR report, which didn't at all support the claim being made (see above), so I am skeptical of this comment as well.



It is just that your response was kind of rude. I do not want to take the time to look these things up.
All I can say is that in some education journal that I read, they implied that it is the actual group size, rather than the number of teachers that makes the difference. The article pointed out that the smaller classes seem to have an impact on the children in terms of how they interact with one another and the teacher, rather than just more time with the teacher. Their confidence seems to be elevated in small groups, and that leads to more participation. When there are 20 kids in the room, the advantage is lost even if you put 4 teachers in there. They implied that to count the group as small, it had to have the actual boundaries separating the children, like walls or book cases.


I agree, it has been in some literature that "group" size, not ratio.