Regret public school for your kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:28 kids, 1 teacher and 1 assistant.

Thanks. But the web site also says class sizes are around 20-23.

I guess the question is whether each elementary class in MCPS has one teacher and one assistant? If so, what am I missing icw the posts above re private schools having two teachers per class?

Two things: first, class sizes in MCPS range from 20-26, depending on grade. Each elementary class does NOT have an aide, only a few do. Second, the previous posts about private schools were talking about two full-time actual teachers in a class of 20, not a teacher and an aide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:28 kids, 1 teacher and 1 assistant.

Thanks. But the web site also says class sizes are around 20-23.

I guess the question is whether each elementary class in MCPS has one teacher and one assistant? If so, what am I missing icw the posts above re private schools having two teachers per class?

Two things: first, class sizes in MCPS range from 20-26, depending on grade. Each elementary class does NOT have an aide, only a few do. Second, the previous posts about private schools were talking about two full-time actual teachers in a class of 20, not a teacher and an aide.

Even these numbers can differ from school to school. It's quite possible to have a kindergarten class of 12 and a 4th or 5th grade class with 28+ kids. A few years ago I had 30 kids in my 4th grade class. DD and DS go to private school. Last year DD had 32 kids in her class. DS had 24 kids in his class.

[Anonymous]

Do all private schools have 2 teachers for a class or 20, or just one particular school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not meant to be a competition or a legal case, I posted about STAR earlier. Smaller classes are better. Too busy to get studies, one recent study said that it helps gifted kids more, but all kids benefit. But the local public school has class sizes of 20. As the previous person asked why not split the classes. I get the impression that it would mean more work for the teachers. Please google a lot and you will eventually find the info.

Of course smaller is better; no one is disputing that! The issue being discussed (if you read the thread) is whether a class with two full-time teachers (i.e., a ratio of ten students to one teacher) also is better. I have googled and googled, and found nothing to suggest that a class size of 20 with two full-time teachers (not an aide) is worse than a class of ten with one teacher. STAR does not support your point, nor does any research I have found. What is effective is when there are more teachers in the classroom per student; 10 students with one teacher or 20 with two teachers appear to be equivalent, according to the research.

And no one is trying to make this a "legal case" or "competition," BTW. I'm just a person who likes research to back up claims. I say that in a sincere way, BTW, not a snarky way.

Bottom line, a better student-teacher ratio is better, so in that sense only, private school (at least those either with two regular teachers per class or class size below 15-17) is probably has an advantage over public (to get back to the original question). That is not at all to say that public school is inferior in other ways, however.

I am reading all these posts and am confused. A number of the Potomac/Bethesda elementary schools say they have a student/instructional staff ratio of around 12-14. (See MCPS web site).

How should I read these numbers? I understand it probably counts the PE, music and art teachers, but the ratio still seems low.

Thanks for the info, I am new to this.

I would take into account the special ed teachers and the special ed classes offered at the school as having a significant effect on the student:teacher ratio numbers. I am not exactly sure how it works in elementary in MoCo, but I am a teacher at a public high school in Fairfax Co. Most of our regular core classes have 25-30 students per class with one teacher. However, we also have many special ed. teachers who work in both teamed classes (1 regular ed. teacher and a special ed. teacher in one class of 25-30 students), but they also have a lot of self-contained classes with just special ed. students where I believe the class size is usually about 5 or 6 students. So, while those classes don't serve most of the population of the school, those numbers are going to bring the ratio way down. That class size is great for those special ed. students who really need it, but I would not assume that most classes are small at all in most public schools - even the art and music classes at our school are large.

[Anonymous]

They count every staff member and divide by the number of students. That gives the lower number. When you actually look at the number of kids in each class, it will be up to 25.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There are some other studies that address the sizes of 20. They look at all instruction and some actually come out of the military.

Would love some actual data as opposed to vague promises of such--first it was suggested to read the STAR report, which didn't at all support the claim being made (see above), so I am skeptical of this comment as well.



It is just that your response was kind of rude. I do not want to take the time to look these things up.
All I can say is that in some education journal that I read, they implied that it is the actual group size, rather than the number of teachers that makes the difference. The article pointed out that the smaller classes seem to have an impact on the children in terms of how they interact with one another and the teacher, rather than just more time with the teacher. Their confidence seems to be elevated in small groups, and that leads to more participation. When there are 20 kids in the room, the advantage is lost even if you put 4 teachers in there. They implied that to count the group as small, it had to have the actual boundaries separating the children, like walls or book cases.

[Anonymous]

PP here.

The range in quality among private schools is huge. Some are great, some are not. So, to the PP who said "what private school can't afford first rate materials" - let me tell you that there are plenty of private schools just like that. The fact that they can select the kinds of kids they let in/keep also means that the school you choose may be a miserable fit for your kid. Fairfax and Arlington Counties can afford special education resources that dwarf what the local privates can offer - maybe irrelevant for your kid, maybe not. Maybe you just don't know the answer to that yet.

I'm not slamming private. I'm just stating that it isn't possibly as simple as "private is always better."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here.

The range in quality among private schools is huge. Some are great, some are not. So, to the PP who said "what private school can't afford first rate materials" - let me tell you that there are plenty of private schools just like that. The fact that they can select the kinds of kids they let in/keep also means that the school you choose may be a miserable fit for your kid. Fairfax and Arlington Counties can afford special education resources that dwarf what the local privates can offer - maybe irrelevant for your kid, maybe not. Maybe you just don't know the answer to that yet.

I'm not slamming private. I'm just stating that it isn't possibly as simple as "private is always better."

I would agree that private isn't always better, stated like that, but I would say that an *excellent* private school is probably always better.

[Anonymous]

Yes, but do parents always choose the "excellent" one? Not all kids thrive where their parents send them.

The elite schools have strong personalities. That's not bad - it is actually a good thing. May not be right for a given kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They count every staff member and divide by the number of students. That gives the lower number. When you actually look at the number of kids in each class, it will be up to 25.

The web site says instructional staff student/teacher ratio; I assume they are NOT counting admin staff.

Thanks to the Fairfax Cty teacher. That info was helpful.

Note that the elementary school we are assigned to has a class size of 21 for year 2007. I understand that the future could be different, but people keep saying 25 plus. Is there something in the stats I am missing?

Also, what is FARMS?

Thanks again to everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do all private schools have 2 teachers for a class or 20, or just one particular school?

And, as mentioned previously, are both teachers ALWAYS in the class room, or is this a tag team effort? Can you inquire without ruffling feathers?

Thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do all private schools have 2 teachers for a class or 20, or just one particular school?

And, as mentioned previously, are both teachers ALWAYS in the class room, or is this a tag team effort? Can you inquire without ruffling feathers?

Thanks

At DC's private school, both teachers are always in the class except when the class goes to art/music/gym/science/computers; at those times, one teacher takes the class to the "special" and the other teacher has a planning period/break.

I would think you could easily ask this question in the interview of any private school you are considering--it's a reasonable question and shouldn't ruffle anyone's feathers to ask.

[Anonymous]

I would think you could easily ask this question in the interview of any private school you are considering--it's a reasonable question and shouldn't ruffle anyone's feathers to ask.

But this post isn't about applying to a particular private school - it is about public v. private schools in general, as well as about differing class sizes in public and private schools. Onme of the arguments is that private schools are better because of class size and one person mentioned that their private school has 20 kids per class and two teachers. I am wondering if this is true for most grades (not just kindergarden) at most private schools in D.C. - not just one or two schools, and not just in kindergarden.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I would think you could easily ask this question in the interview of any private school you are considering--it's a reasonable question and shouldn't ruffle anyone's feathers to ask.

But this post isn't about applying to a particular private school - it is about public v. private schools in general, as well as about differing class sizes in public and private schools. Onme of the arguments is that private schools are better because of class size and one person mentioned that their private school has 20 kids per class and two teachers. I am wondering if this is true for most grades (not just kindergarden) at most private schools in D.C. - not just one or two schools, and not just in kindergarden.

Hi, I am the PP about DC's school. Have no idea about "most" private schools, but at DC's school two teachers are in every grade in the lower grades, not just K. HTH!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is why I don't understand the many parents on DCUM who say their plan is elementary = public, then secondary = private. What are some of the reasons for putting the 5 year olds in bustling, large and possibly anonymous environments but then going small-scale for the 16 year olds who have had 11 years to develop coping/communicating/self-help skills? Is it curriculum? Differences in college placement assistance? Drama departments?

There are two main reasons that we are planning for public for elementary school for our child and then will likely either move to a better school district so we can continue public for middle/high school, or switch to private.

1. Curriculum. My husband and I are capable of filling in gaps in an elementary curriculum, and supplementing what the public school offers with outside lessons, etc. I'm not as sure we could do that in high school, as the curriculum gets more advanced and structured resources (extracurriculars, college placement, AP classes, etc.) are more important. (I don't think it's accurate to say that a five-year-old, even in most public schools, is in a possibly anonymous environment. This is not the case for our local elementary schools and I doubt it is the case for most.)

3. SAFETY. This is the biggest one for us. Our local elementary schools are safe. We can't say the same thing for our local middle and high school, when, at worst, many of our child's classmates might actually be dangerous and, at best, many would pose a real distraction.

Interesting point regarding the safety of pp's local middle and high school. I think it highlights an important factor that people overlook in the public/private school decision - what kind of environment do you want your children to be in on a daily basis? I went to DCPS all the way through, and I got so much value from being surrounded by a diverse, and yes, at times, dangerous populations of kids from different parts of the city. I learned a lot about life - no amount of curriculum could have taught me the equivalent lessons in street smarts, socioeconomics, and just generally how to navigate in a world that isn't always easy. My parents thought about taking me out of DCPS and putting me in private school, but I'm so glad they didn't. Once I got to college, I could see the differences between kids that had gone to private schools where they were protected from a lot of the responsibilities and realities of the real world, and those who went to public schools where those realities were front and center. I think the public school kids were generally better equipped to navigate on their own through college and take advantage of all the academic opportunities, whereas the private school kids were a little more content to rest on their laurels and were less adventurous. That's a generalization of course, but when I think about where to send my children, I always take into account more than just the academics of the school. While I don't want them in a school where all they're going to learn is street smarts and scrappy survival skills, I also don't want them in such a rarefied environment that they will be ill-prepared to deal with the world on their own terms. I know a lot of people are after that rarefied environment though, and I would agree that the best way to get that is to go to a private school. I think a parent expecting that from a public school would be disappointed.