Forum Index
»
Off-Topic
"white trash" - racist?
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
TheManWithAUsername
Member Offline
Member Offline
Ah! Thanks. I hate this "n-word," "r-word" stuff. It's different to talk about those words than it is to use them. I think avoiding them just increases their power. I was going to mention something here about the messed-up origins of "handicap," but I just learned from Snopes that it's origin is innocuous. |
Anonymous
Username, you missed the last paragraph of my prior post ...
This seems to get at exactly where we differ. It also explains why I don't buy your "green tech" example. You're assuming that the operative word is "trash," and "white" was a limiting term, meant to differentiate white trash from all other races of trash. But I think the operative word is "white," and "trash" was meant to differentiate white trash from all other types of whites. You can almost hear the difference if you say the phrase out load. When you say "white trash," try alternating where you put the emphasis -- one the first word versus the second word. When you put the emphasis on the first word -- WHITE trash -- it fits with your interpretation. When you say it the other way -- white TRASH -- it fits more with what I'm describing. To use your "black friend" example ... it would be strange to hear someone say it with the emphasis on the racial term -- "my BLACK friend" -- as distinguished from her white friend. But I absolutely could hear someone say it the other way -- "my black FRIEND" -- to distinguish from her black enemies. |
Anonymous
Same here. It's offensive, and I always cringe when I hear it. |
Anonymous
White trash doesn't have anything to do with blacks. It's about poor white trash or trailer park trash. If you're from the south you know how to use the terms correctly. If you're from the north you think it is racist. It's not. Just like those of us from the south think when we hear a northener call something wicked we're pretty sure they mean it is in cahoots with the devil. |
Anonymous
I'm from the north and I agree with you. White trash is about poor white people. It doesn't have to do with blacks , i .e. assuming black people are trash so we have to point out the white trash. Maybe people from the north would not think that the prevailing assumption was that black people were trash. Having the thought that the implication was that black people are trash is sort of racist, in my opinion.... |
Anonymous
| 12:26, being poor or living in a trailer park does not make one "trashy." However, using the term "white trash" makes you an asshole. |
Anonymous
Ah yes, but it is sooooo much better to call someone an asshole. I think you ruined your point by calling 12:26 an asshole. |
TheManWithAUsername
Member Offline
Member Offline
Hmm...I think I did, or I didn't read it closely enough. Sorry about that. I see what you're saying, and I agree that trash modifies whites more than the other way around. That's probably part of why the argument that it's just a way to distinguish among types of trash rings hollow to me. I don't know if that affects the analysis that much. So, at origin, one specifically identifies trashy whites to distinguish from typical whites. One doesn't do that with blacks for the reasons mentioned, that all antebellum blacks are essentially the same status. But here were are now. Let's say that to fix the confusion we change the phrase to "trashy whites," so that it's clear that we're specifying a subset of whites instead of a subset of trash. The implication is still that most whites are not trashy, which we wouldn't call a racist assumption. I think we're still left with what makes me uncomfortable, what other posters have noted, that you never hear "trashy blacks" or "black trash." Basically, you always have to wonder when the racial adjective is inexplicably added, don't you? The "black friend" example is still worth exploring. So she says, "black FRIEND." - that doesn't have racial implications? It sounds like most blacks are her enemies, as you say. It also implies that most whites are NOT her enemies. If most people in general were her enemies, then she would just say "FRIEND," leaving off the "black," b/c any friend, black or white, would be distinctive. That example has gotten a little far out, so let's try "smart liberal politician" in place of "trashy white." "I just met a SMART liberal politician." That tells you: 1) the speaker thinks most liberal politicians are stupid; and 2) the speaker doesn't question the intelligence of conservative (or non-liberal) politicians in general. We know #2 because if the speaker thought that all politicians were generally stupid, s/he would have said, "I just met a SMART politician," leaving out the ideology. * You do - or did - hear "nigger," of course, and some suggest that it has that particular meaning. Maybe it does among some blacks, but I've doubted the sincerity (or judgment, anyway) of whites who have claimed to make that distinction. Anyway, it's not in any kind of polite usage now, so it's hard to say. |
Anonymous
Don't get me wrong. While I don't think the phrase is originally or inherently racial in nature, I'm not arguing in favor of using the phrase. It's one that makes me uncomfortable too, mainly because of the potential for misunderstandings. As I posted earlier, it just carries too much racial baggage, much like the "tar baby" character from folklore, to be a useful phrase for communicating. It's easy to substitute something like "trailer trash" or "hillbilly," and those don't carry the same baggage. |
TheManWithAUsername
Member Offline
Member Offline
Yeah, but what about the rest? I got pretty excited about my last analogy. Either way, thanks for bringing what I think was my first OT thread to 7 pages. |
Anonymous
Yes. This is correct. The term has nothing to do with blacks. I disagree with calling anyone trash, though. |
Anonymous
You mean about the "SMART liberal politician"? I agree that putting stress on different words in a phrase can significantly change the meaning of various phrases. Exactly how the stress affects meaning probably depends a lot on the specific context. I don't know enough about linguistics, but there's probably a technical term for this concept .... ... I just checked Wikipedia and, sure enough, there's an entry on this very concept -- "prosodic stress." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_(linguistics) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosody_(linguistics) |
TheManWithAUsername
Member Offline
Member Offline
|
Anonymous
Southerner here. Those terms are racist, classist, and disgusting. If it has nothing to do with race, why the need for the adjective "white?" |
Anonymous
I think you're half-right. I agree that saying "SMART liberal politician" implies the speaker believes that other liberal politicians are stupid. But I don't think it also necessarily implies other non-liberal politicians are smart. Your example is a little confusing in the context of politics, because there's such a reflexive liberal vs. conservative dichotomy. So think about the same example with slightly different terms. Referring to my "SMART neighbor" probably implies that other neighbors are stupid. But it doesn't necessarily imply that all non-neighbors are smart. There's some technical name for this sort of deductive logical fallacy, but I can't remember what it is. So by the same logic, referring to a "trashy white" implies that not all white people are trashy. But I don't think it logically creates a reverse implication that all non-whites are trashy. Non-whites are simply not part of the logic equation in that statement. BTW, I'm kind of enjoying how this exchange is getting me thinking about linguistics and logical fallacies, which are two things I don't get to consider very often. |