"white trash" - racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Didn't read through, but yes, it's both classist and racist.

Classist = some (poor) people are trash

Racist = the default (non-modified) group of said people are not white

This sums it up pretty well.

[Anonymous]

I've never thought of it as racist in the way suggested here, partially because I don't hear any other racial groups called "trash" (with or without a leading adjective). As a PP (& my dad, when I was younger) said, it is awful to call a human being trash (possible exceptions include murderers).

[Anonymous]

TheManWithAUsername wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You were right to respond with the "Uh!" sentence! I've got egg on my face for not reading carefully what was "handily capitalized for us!" , and I sincerely apologize for that oversight and my comments.

No problem. The admission of a mistake is an internet rarity; I appreciate you being big about it.

Anonymous wrote:I was trying to share my feelings that I think there are many people (certainly quite a few DCUM posters) who make judgmental and critical statements regarding those who identify themselves as southern, white, and/or Christian. Yet they would react strongly (as they should) if the same kinds of statements were made towards other groups, races, cultures, etc. I don't think my recognition of those statements means I have a persecution complex, and I hold no prejudice against non-believers. I respect each person's decision in that area; and I was trying to describe the kind of church I attend because it's a very diverse, caring, and accepting group.

I think there are a lot of people - though still a small minority, nationally - like me who perceive themselves as having been subjected to a philosophical and political war by believers, more specifically fundamentalist Christians.* As a result, I know feel less tolerant of Christianity, which is too bad, as I've known several very good people who were Christians.

*No, I don't think it's particular to Christianity; the Christians just happen to be in power here. I'm sure I'd feel more threatened in any of several Muslim countries or in a Hasidic community.

PP here. I can appreciate what you're sharing here and do not think that anyone should be made to feel subjected to a philosophical and political war. I'm sure I would be highly resentful and angry if I felt pressured in that regard by any group of people. Sharing one's viewpoint or faith shouldn't override the basic freedoms of others.

[Anonymous]

This PP nailed it:

white trash refers to trashy behavior that is associated with being white (separate and distinct from the kind of trashy behavior that might be stereotypically associated with a different race and described with a different term).

It may be an offensive term but it isn't inherently racist.

In other words, you might say a black person like white trash if they engage in "trashy behavior that is associated with being white."

It is my firm belief that minorities who feel the term white trash is racist and offensive to them (as opposed to the people who are described as white trash!) are looking for a reason to be affronted. When you go around searching for offense, you're likely to find it. But who has the time?

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:This PP nailed it:

white trash refers to trashy behavior that is associated with being white (separate and distinct from the kind of trashy behavior that might be stereotypically associated with a different race and described with a different term).

It may be an offensive term but it isn't inherently racist.

In other words, you might say a black person like white trash if they engage in "trashy behavior that is associated with being white."

What would that be? - what trashy behavior is there that's particular to whites?

Anonymous wrote:It is my firm belief that minorities who feel the term white trash is racist and offensive to them (as opposed to the people who are described as white trash!) are looking for a reason to be affronted. When you go around searching for offense, you're likely to find it. But who has the time?

So if you're white, but not "white trash," and you find the term offensive b/c of the implications about blacks, your opinion is legitimate, but if you're black and hold the exact same opinion you're just looking to be offended.

[Anonymous]

It is my firm belief that minorities who feel the term white trash is racist and offensive to them (as opposed to the people who are described as white trash!) are looking for a reason to be affronted. When you go around searching for offense, you're likely to find it. But who has the time?

So if you're white, but not "white trash," and you find the term offensive b/c of the implications about blacks, your opinion is legitimate, but if you're black and hold the exact same opinion you're just looking to be offended.

Maybe that was poorly worded. How about this:

It is my firm belief that anyone who feels the term white trash is racist is looking for a reason to be affronted. When you go around searching for offense, you're likely to find it. But who has the time?

[Anonymous]

TheManWithAUsername wrote:what trashy behavior is there that's particular to whites?

Wearing Ed Hardy hats and shirts.

There are also these examples ...
http://stuffwhitetrashpeoplelike.wordpress.com/
http://www.google.com/search?q=white+trash&hl=en&prmd=ivnse&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=e2xnTqeVMorg0QGu54HQCw&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=939

Also, I got curious about the term, and found this on Wikipedia ...

The term white trash first came into common use in the 1830s as a pejorative used by house slaves against poor whites. In 1833 Fanny Kemble, an English actress visiting Georgia, noted in her journal: "The slaves themselves entertain the very highest contempt for white servants, whom they designate as 'poor white trash'". In 1854, Harriet Beecher Stowe wrote the chapter "Poor White Trash" in her book A Key to Uncle Tom's Cabin.

[Anonymous]

BTW, my new favorite term from one of those websites above? ... "jorts" for jean shorts

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe that was poorly worded. How about this:

It is my firm belief that anyone who feels the term white trash is racist is looking for a reason to be affronted. When you go around searching for offense, you're likely to find it. But who has the time?

OK, but the stating that your belief is firm doesn't add much. If you have good reasons for having that firm belief, let us know. Your statement just looks like an unsupported ad hominem attack.

There have been arguments on both sides here. I don't see any shrill, unsupported complaining from the side that thinks it's racist.

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:Also, I got curious about the term, and found this on Wikipedia ...

The term white trash first came into common use in the 1830s as a pejorative used by house slaves against poor whites. In 1833 Fanny Kemble, an English actress visiting Georgia, noted in her journal: "The slaves themselves entertain the very highest contempt for white servants, whom they designate as 'poor white trash'". In 1854, Harriet Beecher Stowe wrote the chapter "Poor White Trash" in her book A Key to Uncle Tom's Cabin.

Heh. It's funny how in this age we (I, in this case) can still forget to do 2 minutes of research.

That's interesting. Talk about identification with the oppressor - "Those whites are so inferior to the whites who use me as sub-human property.

I think that that origin actually supports the idea that it's racist against blacks. In the antebellum South, it would obviously have been redundant or nonsensical to call blacks "trash," as they were already treated essentially as such, so the term does have those implications that make some of us uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I think it's racist and classist. I also think trailer trash is classist. I understand calling someone trash if they truly are (rapists, abusers, murders, etc.), but why should someone be called trash just because they live in a mobile home and/or are poor.

I think it's disgusting to refer to people that way when they've done nothing to deserve the label of trash.

You don't use the term "trash" (I leave off the white part as it applies to anyone with poor hygiene, grammar, behavior and habits) to describe someone who is just poor or whom just lives in a trailer park. The term "Trash" implies that their behavior/manners/hygiene/speech/clothing choice/looks/sexualization are trashy or badly kept. There are certainly people who may not have much money but still manage to live with grace and manners. The term "trash" applied to anyone of any color skin who behaves or looks a ceratin way maybe be classist but just because you do not have money does not mean you have to be low class.

[Anonymous]

TheManWithAUsername wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe that was poorly worded. How about this:

It is my firm belief that anyone who feels the term white trash is racist is looking for a reason to be affronted. When you go around searching for offense, you're likely to find it. But who has the time?

OK, but the stating that your belief is firm doesn't add much. If you have good reasons for having that firm belief, let us know. Your statement just looks like an unsupported ad hominem attack.

There have been arguments on both sides here. I don't see any shrill, unsupported complaining from the side that thinks it's racist.

That's absolutely right. It's not an argument, it's an observation about motivation and overly sensitive PPs. Not meant to convince anyone. Take it or leave it, it's up to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BTW, my new favorite term from one of those websites above? ... "jorts" for jean shorts

OMG!! My husband has been using the term "Jorts" for years to make fun of people, especially men, wearing jean shorts. Apparently "tailored" jorts are much, much cheesier and trashier than cutoffs. Who knew it was now part of the general lexicon! LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW, my new favorite term from one of those websites above? ... "jorts" for jean shorts

OMG!! My husband has been using the term "Jorts" for years to make fun of people, especially men, wearing jean shorts. Apparently "tailored" jorts are much, much cheesier and trashier than cutoffs. Who knew it was now part of the general lexicon! LOL

Everyone who grew up in the 80s?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This pp nailed it. Yes, identifying "trash" as "white" is an insult to people of color but regardless this is also an insult to the people identified as "white trash" and it's based on class.

"White trash" isn't necessarily about wealth. I agree that the term is used more frequently as an insult toward those who are also poor but there are trashy people with money just as there are trashy people without. It's about behavior.

PP here. I get your point but it is still about class. The people with money who are called white trash might also be derided as having "new money" and not behaving in the "appropriate" way that wealthy people should act. That is, living in a loud, flashy manner which would be an anathema to the understated "old money" folks. Think of an exclusive snobby Miss Manners - that's classical White Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASP) culture (except that Miss Manners is much more egalitarian). So it is about behavior but in your example it's about whether people act in a manner in which the ruling class think is appropriate for people of that class.