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Is It the Beginning of the End for Suburbia
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Anonymous
Sorry, it's actually from a popular paraphrase of Leon Trotsky's "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you." In short, it's only in the last few decades that humans "get what they want". It's a sign of our relatively coddled upbringing in post-war America that the middle-class think that "what people want" is the overriding factor. Increasingly, you're not going to get what you want. In other words, "You may not be interested in urbanism, but urbanism is interested in you." |
Anonymous
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<i>Funny since DC is a net recipient of Federal dollars. Most of suburban infrastructure is state-funded in case you didn't notice. </i>
First, the life-blood of suburbia is it's road infrastructure. And that's going to fall to shit without a massive infusion of Federal cash. Secondly, DC is only a net recipient of Federal dollars if you include the massive amount of money spent by the Federal government on the Federal government. (Salaries of federal workers in DC are not taxable, I might add). <i>If you keep whittling away to the definition until you are left with Prince William and Loudoun, then the argument is meaningless.</i> I think everyone with half a brain understands that "suburbia" doesn't map precisely to the arbitrary political boundaries of the metro area. Is Alexandria "not suburbia"? Anyone who's ever been to Old Town knows it's not suburban. Generally speaking, the further away you get from those desirable areas, the faster the value of property falls. As far as Bailey's Crossroads being more dense than DC, yes that's the case. And, of course, it was developed in an incredibly short-sighted fashion. Which is why it's an absolute shit-show even during the weekends. It's density without any semblance of design. Anyone who's lived in Western culture for more than a year would be able to tell you that the intersection of Columbia and Leesburg Pikes have a form that's suburban--lots of surface parking, big box stores, multiple lanes, prioritization of auto traffic above all other users of public space. The exact opposite is true of Old Town. Generally speaking, if the only choice of home is on a cul-de-sac, and 90% of the trips are by car, you're living in a suburb. Silver Spring is essentially Bailey's Crossroads attempting to retrofit itself as a semi-urban place. |
Anonymous
When you pay for 395, 295, your portion of 495 and cover your own Metro capital costs, get back to me. Until then, it sounds like quite a bit of hypocrisy. As for Alexandria, once again you have decided to carve out Old Town - a collection of retail establishments, townhouses and condos -- and ignored Alexandria as a whole. Walking to Chipotle is not the definition of urban. Your ability to push Sophie around in a stroller while you sip a latte and check out Williams Sonoma is not the definition of urban either. Your big box retailers are the same as our big box retailers- Best Buy, Target, B&N, Home Depot, and soon you'll have not one but 4 Walmarts. Urban living is not about popping down to eat dinner around the corner, when you really should be cooking and eating at home. Most driving is to and from school, activities, and work. And DC residents do their share of driving. 65% of households own a car, and I bet the number shoots way up when you get to Northwest. And nearly half of District residents drive to work. And not that many people are sending their kids to the local public school anymore, or allowing them to take the bus or metro to soccer practice. Your arguments come down to lifestyle and aesthetics. It's great that you are blocks away from your next supersized cupcake, but it doesn't have much to do with this thread, which is about the economics of suburbia. I do not hate the city. I lived for years in the city. But I live in the suburbs (or do I, because it now appears that everything attractive is "urban-ish" to you) because the economics of schools and space don't make sense in the city. I have 2 kids who can go to public school and my equivalent home in DC would have cost $2.5M. So I have roughly $2.1M left over to pay for more gas - except that like half of DC I was driving to work, and now my commute is shorter. And that is why suburbia is not going away. |
Anonymous
You still seem to think we're having this argument about who's living a more laudable and ethical life. We're not. My point is, if the GOP is successful in shrinking the size of the government and "drown it in a bathtub," we're not going to be able to pay for 395, 295, 495, or Metro. And when that happens, the value of the areas that are not walk-able urban areas are going to fall like a stone. Not a question of hypocrisy. The faucet's going to be turned off pretty soon. When that happens quality of life in the suburban cul-de-sac is going to plummet considerably in relation to quality of life in Old Town, Bethesda, and most notably DC. |
Anonymous
If you can't figure it out yourself, this will give you a rough estimate: http://www.walkscore.com |
Anonymous
Wow, so Bailey's Crossroads is "Very Walkable". Annandale VA is "Very Walkable". And Manassas VA is a"Walker's Paradise". It actually outscored Clarendon and Foggy Bottom. That site was so insightful. But more to the point, nearby retail has little to do with economics or gas consumption. |
Anonymous
Not that poster, but my score was 89 out of 100 in Rockville. Is that good or bad compared to parts of DC that most posters here live in? |
Anonymous
Sure! As I said, it's a blunt instrument. But it illustrates the pincipal that urban/exurban divide isn't something defined by the DC-VA or DC-MD line. Speaking of "blunt instruments", you seem to have failed in trying to use it. Though you illustrate a pretty good point: it's useless to talk about how "walkable" Bailey's Crossroads is. You need to enter an address. Hooray, Bailey's Crossroads is "Very Walkable"! If you live in the Best Buy. But, uh oh, looks like 3517 Lake Street, Falls Church is "Somewhat Walkable (54)". And 3404 Rustic Way Ln is "Car Dependent (17)". |
Anonymous
All it does it tell you how close you are to a strip mall or block of stores. It has nothing to do with whether you have to drive a lot or a little. As I have said before, being close to retail is not descriptive of driving habits. Unless your life consists of strolling around drinking starbucks while you buy handbags, makeup, and eating dinner out every night, living along M Street does not cut down your mileage. There's no metro, your kids go to school up in NW, their teams play all over the place, your job is likely either downtown or out in VA. You are either driving or idling for 30 minutes. You live in Mt Pleasant, but your child's school is nowhere near your home. You like walking to dinner and the Target and the zoo, but it takes a while to get to work. It's fine if you work on the Red Line, but as soon as that changes all bets are off. You are in Foggy Bottom. TJ's and the pool are a few blocks away, and you can get downtown in no time flat. Then your kid takes music class at Guy Mason, and you can take your car ten minutes up Rock Creek or metro it and leave the house 45 minutes to an hour ahead of time. Meanwhile, the guy on Capitol Hill drives to the Apple Store, the guy on M Street drives to the Target, and the guy in Dupont takes a zipcar over to Tysons. The people I know who save real money on cars and gas in the city are the ones who commute to work on public transportation. Shopping is not the driver of mileage. |
Anonymous
| Excuse me, Green Line. |
Anonymous
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The guy in Dupont soooo does not Zipcar to Tysons! I haven't been in at least a couple of years.
The families I know who live centrally usually choose activities according to public transit possibilities and discard car-dependent options. |
Anonymous
Yeah, you don't know that many people. Most people choose activities according to what they need and want. 65% of DC residents own a car. They are driving it somewhere. They don't call themselves "urbanists" and they don't say "centrally" and "walkable" all the time. They avoid thinking they know everything about a town after being here fewer than ten years, and they don't say "rocking" so often. |
Anonymous
Surprise an urbanist thinks that urban neighborhoods are the hot thing. |
Anonymous
I live in Dupont/Logan. My score was 100 - Walkers Paradise. I walk to work downtown. We walk our daughter to (public) school. We walk to hardware stores, grocery, restaurants, etc. I have walked to Target etc but admittedly we probably drive there more often than walking. |