Paying for a second or third tier college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've always thought that I'd pay for a top tier school or state school, nothing in between. My first got into and attends a top tier school but my second will almost certainly not get into one, yet is interested in a number of second tier schools that have the same hefty price tag. Would you force your kid to attend a state school if they didn't get into a top tier school? With great sacrifice, we can afford to pay the second or third tier price tag but I can't help but think my kid would be better off at a state school and with ~200k (the likely cost difference) in a long-term investment.

This is hard as you invested X in first kid who had the advantage of an easier admission cycle. Do you just want to spend less on the second kid if it’s not top 10? Is your state school in the top 10 or 20?

Would you make the investments equal? Ie put the 200 K immediately into a trust or 529 for graduate school for your second? Or would you redo your kitchen or give it to your first kid for a house down payment?

I understand your point. We did not offer kid #1 the state school+200k option. I doubt he would have taken it but we didn't offer that, so I can see how that could create bad feelings, in addition to the bad feelings kid #2 could have if we went through with this scenario because kid #1 got their choice of school. I just think most non-top tier colleges are a terrible investment (and arguably so are some of the top tier ones) when you can get a good education at state schools but I do understand what you are saying.

Stop thinking about it as ROI. It isn't trade school.

disagree.. Today, colleges are about getting a good paying job after college. You would be stupid to not think about ROI.

I hear ya, OP. But, is the state school good for their major? Is the oos they want to go to considered great for their major with a great alumni network? Then it might be worth it.

Disagree.

For us, college is first about gaining understanding and knowledge and developing critical thinking and life skills.

Once you have an understanding of the world, then you can choose your place in it and decide whether and to what extent you wish to prioritize $$$.

That kind of thinking is for people with some money.

Or, you can do that, and then lament that you didn't major in something more marketable when you can't find a good paying job or 5, 10 years out, and you're still stuck in a low level job. Lots of people regret their major, mostly due to how little their job pays.

Stupid not to think about ROI if you don't have family money.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-major-recent-grads-most-regret-ziprecruiter/

Liberal arts majors were most likely to regret the area they chose to focus their studies, with many wishing they had pursued a scientific or quantitative field, according to the job site.

The fields with the highest share of regret among recent grads are political science, international relations, or public policy, with 46.3% of those majors expressing dissatisfaction with their choice, ZipRecruiter found. That's followed by communications, media studies or public relations majors, 39.2% of whom said they rue their decision.

To be sure, it's not only liberal arts grads who have second thoughts about their majors, with one-third of physical sciences majors — people who majored in physics, chemistry or earth sciences — expressing doubts, the analysis found.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS is at a 2nd/3rd tier private school. It cost maybe $3k more than the state school. Unless your kid goes to UMCP, the MD state schools are pretty mid.

agree, and even UMD doesn't have every major, which is why my DC is going OOS to a different well known flagship for their major, while my other kid is at UMD for CS.

Not gonna lie though, the cost makes me catch my breath, but we have the money. We aren't sacrificing our retirement. I would not do that.

Sometimes the OOS can be worth it, and I say this as a frugal person.

I just read OP is in NJ. My nephew went there, and got a great paying job out of school. They saved enough after 5 or 6 years to maybe buy a condo, while their friends who went to pricier oos are still trying to play off loans. But, it's true that Rutgers is also pretty expensive for what it is.

I would say that if Rutgers has a good program for their major (which it did for my nephew), then it makes sense to stay in state. But, if it doesn't, then oos makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many Georgia parents of high stats kids are wrestling with this and normally it’s been a no-brainer. UGA or GA Tech with the Zell Miller scholarship (full tuition) wins over paying for both Tier 1 and Tier 2 privates a lot of the time (even in full pay families).

What GPA and SAT and ranking can you almost guarantee to this full tuition scholarship? Thanks.

PS. Their in-state/oos tuition is actually relatively low already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Georgia parents of high stats kids are wrestling with this and normally it’s been a no-brainer. UGA or GA Tech with the Zell Miller scholarship (full tuition) wins over paying for both Tier 1 and Tier 2 privates a lot of the time (even in full pay families).

I just looked up. It seems that they award many such scholarships each year. No wonder GA Tech is able to maintain such a high standard. For those who are not STEM inclined though, it’s a tough choice, as UGA is such a downgrade!

Were I a GA resident and could send me kid to either of these schools practically free I'd do it in a heartbeat over just about any school. One of my kids' UVA roommate was a GA resident who turned down GA Tech for engineering and paid OOS tuition to UVA instead and that never made sense to me.

that was 100% a dumb decision. I'm betting that the kid just wanted to go oos, and to the best oos they could get into.

To turn down GT for UVA for eng... that's a 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Georgia parents of high stats kids are wrestling with this and normally it’s been a no-brainer. UGA or GA Tech with the Zell Miller scholarship (full tuition) wins over paying for both Tier 1 and Tier 2 privates a lot of the time (even in full pay families).

I just looked up. It seems that they award many such scholarships each year. No wonder GA Tech is able to maintain such a high standard. For those who are not STEM inclined though, it’s a tough choice, as UGA is such a downgrade!

Were I a GA resident and could send me kid to either of these schools practically free I'd do it in a heartbeat over just about any school. One of my kids' UVA roommate was a GA resident who turned down GA Tech for engineering and paid OOS tuition to UVA instead and that never made sense to me.

that was 100% a dumb decision. I'm betting that the kid just wanted to go oos, and to the best oos they could get into.

To turn down GT for UVA for eng... that's a 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Oh, and I agree. BUT on the other hand it adds credence to my thesis that in the end none of this matters. The kid landed an extremely high paying job immediately and moved out west and continues to do very, very well. So I doubt choosing UVA over GA Tech made any difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Georgia parents of high stats kids are wrestling with this and normally it’s been a no-brainer. UGA or GA Tech with the Zell Miller scholarship (full tuition) wins over paying for both Tier 1 and Tier 2 privates a lot of the time (even in full pay families).

I just looked up. It seems that they award many such scholarships each year. No wonder GA Tech is able to maintain such a high standard. For those who are not STEM inclined though, it’s a tough choice, as UGA is such a downgrade!

Were I a GA resident and could send me kid to either of these schools practically free I'd do it in a heartbeat over just about any school. One of my kids' UVA roommate was a GA resident who turned down GA Tech for engineering and paid OOS tuition to UVA instead and that never made sense to me.

that was 100% a dumb decision. I'm betting that the kid just wanted to go oos, and to the best oos they could get into.

To turn down GT for UVA for eng... that's a 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

To add, UVA is not nearly as well-known compared to GT outside of the US. This is puzzling.

[Anonymous]

I think a lot depends on what state you live in. If your public options include UVA, Michigan, Berkeley, UCLA, Georgia Tech, Texas, even UMD, Florida, and Georgia, congratulations, you have excellent and affordable options. There probably aren’t very many schools that are genuinely worth an extra $200,000. And even if one does get admitted to HYPSM, it is often true that those students also receive full ride scholarships to their state flagships. Is Yale worth $400,000 over a free ride to UVA or Georgia Tech? Generally, the answer is no.

As for tiers, it seems like HYPSM will always be the “top” 5 schools. But in reality this is very major dependent. There are so many schools that are stronger in engineering compared to Harvard or Yale. And all of the schools ranked 5-15 are excellent and are often a better fit for students than HYPSM. I guess those would be your tier 2 schools - Duke to Notre Dame. All great schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Georgia parents of high stats kids are wrestling with this and normally it’s been a no-brainer. UGA or GA Tech with the Zell Miller scholarship (full tuition) wins over paying for both Tier 1 and Tier 2 privates a lot of the time (even in full pay families).

I just looked up. It seems that they award many such scholarships each year. No wonder GA Tech is able to maintain such a high standard. For those who are not STEM inclined though, it’s a tough choice, as UGA is such a downgrade!

Were I a GA resident and could send me kid to either of these schools practically free I'd do it in a heartbeat over just about any school. One of my kids' UVA roommate was a GA resident who turned down GA Tech for engineering and paid OOS tuition to UVA instead and that never made sense to me.

that was 100% a dumb decision. I'm betting that the kid just wanted to go oos, and to the best oos they could get into.

To turn down GT for UVA for eng... that's a 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Have you toured GT? We did and it was the land of super, super nerdy STEM kids. I'm married to a geeky engineer who spent his college Friday nights doing problem sets with friends but my kid is mainstream and couldn't see herself there at all. She hated the vibe and we spent hours and hours on the campus trying to see if she could see herself there.

There is more to college than just a rating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Georgia parents of high stats kids are wrestling with this and normally it’s been a no-brainer. UGA or GA Tech with the Zell Miller scholarship (full tuition) wins over paying for both Tier 1 and Tier 2 privates a lot of the time (even in full pay families).

I just looked up. It seems that they award many such scholarships each year. No wonder GA Tech is able to maintain such a high standard. For those who are not STEM inclined though, it’s a tough choice, as UGA is such a downgrade!

Were I a GA resident and could send me kid to either of these schools practically free I'd do it in a heartbeat over just about any school. One of my kids' UVA roommate was a GA resident who turned down GA Tech for engineering and paid OOS tuition to UVA instead and that never made sense to me.

that was 100% a dumb decision. I'm betting that the kid just wanted to go oos, and to the best oos they could get into.

To turn down GT for UVA for eng... that's a 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

To add, UVA is not nearly as well-known compared to GT outside of the US. This is puzzling.

Who gives a shit about whether it's known outside the US? The vast majority of US colleges aren't known outside the US, including many of the best ones. And guess what? Most US college grads have zero interest in moving outside of the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Georgia parents of high stats kids are wrestling with this and normally it’s been a no-brainer. UGA or GA Tech with the Zell Miller scholarship (full tuition) wins over paying for both Tier 1 and Tier 2 privates a lot of the time (even in full pay families).

I just looked up. It seems that they award many such scholarships each year. No wonder GA Tech is able to maintain such a high standard. For those who are not STEM inclined though, it’s a tough choice, as UGA is such a downgrade!

Were I a GA resident and could send me kid to either of these schools practically free I'd do it in a heartbeat over just about any school. One of my kids' UVA roommate was a GA resident who turned down GA Tech for engineering and paid OOS tuition to UVA instead and that never made sense to me.

that was 100% a dumb decision. I'm betting that the kid just wanted to go oos, and to the best oos they could get into.

To turn down GT for UVA for eng... that's a 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

To add, UVA is not nearly as well-known compared to GT outside of the US. This is puzzling.

Who gives a shit about whether it's known outside the US? The vast majority of US colleges aren't known outside the US, including many of the best ones. And guess what? Most US college grads have zero interest in moving outside of the US.

I once lived in an area where most of its residents had never lived outside of their own area their whole life. They also viewed those who had lived in different countries as aliens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Georgia parents of high stats kids are wrestling with this and normally it’s been a no-brainer. UGA or GA Tech with the Zell Miller scholarship (full tuition) wins over paying for both Tier 1 and Tier 2 privates a lot of the time (even in full pay families).

I just looked up. It seems that they award many such scholarships each year. No wonder GA Tech is able to maintain such a high standard. For those who are not STEM inclined though, it’s a tough choice, as UGA is such a downgrade!

Were I a GA resident and could send me kid to either of these schools practically free I'd do it in a heartbeat over just about any school. One of my kids' UVA roommate was a GA resident who turned down GA Tech for engineering and paid OOS tuition to UVA instead and that never made sense to me.

that was 100% a dumb decision. I'm betting that the kid just wanted to go oos, and to the best oos they could get into.

To turn down GT for UVA for eng... that's a 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

To add, UVA is not nearly as well-known compared to GT outside of the US. This is puzzling.

Who gives a shit about whether it's known outside the US? The vast majority of US colleges aren't known outside the US, including many of the best ones. And guess what? Most US college grads have zero interest in moving outside of the US.

I once lived in an area where most of its residents had never lived outside of their own area their whole life. They also viewed those who had lived in different countries as aliens.

ok . . . now can you answer the question?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Georgia parents of high stats kids are wrestling with this and normally it’s been a no-brainer. UGA or GA Tech with the Zell Miller scholarship (full tuition) wins over paying for both Tier 1 and Tier 2 privates a lot of the time (even in full pay families).

I just looked up. It seems that they award many such scholarships each year. No wonder GA Tech is able to maintain such a high standard. For those who are not STEM inclined though, it’s a tough choice, as UGA is such a downgrade!

Were I a GA resident and could send me kid to either of these schools practically free I'd do it in a heartbeat over just about any school. One of my kids' UVA roommate was a GA resident who turned down GA Tech for engineering and paid OOS tuition to UVA instead and that never made sense to me.

that was 100% a dumb decision. I'm betting that the kid just wanted to go oos, and to the best oos they could get into.

To turn down GT for UVA for eng... that's a 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Have you toured GT? We did and it was the land of super, super nerdy STEM kids. I'm married to a geeky engineer who spent his college Friday nights doing problem sets with friends but my kid is mainstream and couldn't see herself there at all. She hated the vibe and we spent hours and hours on the campus trying to see if she could see herself there.

There is more to college than just a rating.

Just because there’re more geeky kids at GT doesn’t mean you can’t find other “mainstream” (whatever that means) friends there. It’s actually good to open your mind especially during your formative years. There is a much bigger world out there. 😉

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t know where the line was drawn for “tiers” so I looked them up.

An example of a group of 2nd Tier colleges are Vanderbilt, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Rice, USC, NYU, Emory, Washington University in St. Louis, Tulane, Boston College, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Carnegie Mellon

Tier 3 Colleges are mostly state colleges like UCSD, UCI, University of Rochester. UW-Wisconsin

I don’t know what’s wrong with these colleges.

Hopkins and Northwestern are in the Top 10 these days. <7% acceptance rate. Those are Tier 2?!

[Anonymous]

I think it depends heavily on the major, the child, their personality and preferences.
Is the child working hard and just not a brainiac like the first, or are they slacking off? If they’re not trying their hardest, I wouldn’t have a problem explaining that my hard earned money will not be spent on tuition if they aren’t willing to put in the work. Are they looking for a particular type of college experience? I could understand certain types of shy, bookish kids wanting a small liberal arts college over Rutgers (although they could also look somewhere like TCNJ). Have you talked to them about it? Do they feel it is fundamentally unfair, or are we all projecting that? Is Rutgers strong in their desired major?

Ultimately I don’t think it’s unfair to say this tuition is worth the price, this one is not. But I think you need to have an open conversation about that early and help the child get on board with that way of thinking too.

As someone who grew up in NJ, I strongly sympathize with the in-state option being Rutgers, but it also motivated me to work hard and get into a top school, because my parents were clear otherwise Rutgers was a solid choice for us.

[Anonymous]

PP- also another fair option would be to say: work hard at state school and I’ll put that extra tuition $ to a good grad school