Paying for a second or third tier college

[Anonymous]

First, what’s wrong with going to a public college in your state?

Second, in this day and age, there’s too much knowledge readily available online. I really don’t see the point of paying a hefty price for a crappy college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would never in a million years pay anywhere near full price for a second or third tier private school, especially being Virginia residents, and would only pay for first tier if we were talking top ten or better. No Vanderbilts, Northwesterns, Notre Dames, Wash Us or Emorys over UVA—no way no how—no bullshit liberal arts college over William & Mary, no middling private over JMU, etc.

If I were OP I’d offer exactly what she’s proposing and hope the kid accepts. And I wouldn’t think twice about the first kid. As she said, he wouldn’t have gone for it anyway.

Northwestern is a top ten school now. I was willing to pay for any top 20 to 30 school (lowest would be Georgetown) or WASP, but I truly believe that you need meet your kid where they are at. I know too many kids who went to our nearby state school only to graduate in 5 or 6 years and then move back home. State schools require a kid who is self-motivated and on top of their stuff. Smaller colleges have more supports and advising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would never in a million years pay anywhere near full price for a second or third tier private school, especially being Virginia residents, and would only pay for first tier if we were talking top ten or better. No Vanderbilts, Northwesterns, Notre Dames, Wash Us or Emorys over UVA—no way no how—no bullshit liberal arts college over William & Mary, no middling private over JMU, etc.

If I were OP I’d offer exactly what she’s proposing and hope the kid accepts. And I wouldn’t think twice about the first kid. As she said, he wouldn’t have gone for it anyway.

Northwestern is a top ten school now. I was willing to pay for any top 20 to 30 school (lowest would be Georgetown) or WASP, but I truly believe that you need meet your kid where they are at. I know too many kids who went to our nearby state school only to graduate in 5 or 6 years and then move back home. State schools require a kid who is self-motivated and on top of their stuff. Smaller colleges have more supports and advising.

Easy for Virginia (or Michigan or California or North Carolina or Florida or Texas) parents to say public or Ivy/Ivy+ and nothing in between. What if you were from a state that didn’t have a flagship that’s on par with UVA or a public mid-size alternative like William and Mary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have seen this scenario play out and the outcome isn’t good. One kid went to Princeton the other had to go to a local city school. The city school graduate has a very bad relationship with his parents and is resentful that he wasn’t treated equally. Don’t be that parent. If you pay for the first you have to pay for the second. As another poster said, many schools provide merit scholarships. There is a huge difference between a state school and a private liberal arts school. Huge!! Prestige isn’t the only consideration when choosing schools. Fit matters more than that!

+1 "If you pay for the first you have to pay for the second." Well said, and true.

[Anonymous]

There are plenty of 2nd tier schools that offer significant merit. I personally wouldn't pay full freight for UMiami or BC (even though their stars have risen the last 10 years), but if the kid would prefer Loyola or Denison or Trinity with $30-40k in merit aid rather than a state school, sure, why not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've always thought that I'd pay for a top tier school or state school, nothing in between. My first got into and attends a top tier school but my second will almost certainly not get into one, yet is interested in a number of second tier schools that have the same hefty price tag. Would you force your kid to attend a state school if they didn't get into a top tier school? With great sacrifice, we can afford to pay the second or third tier price tag but I can't help but think my kid would be better off at a state school and with ~200k (the likely cost difference) in a long-term investment.

This is hard as you invested X in first kid who had the advantage of an easier admission cycle. Do you just want to spend less on the second kid if it’s not top 10? Is your state school in the top 10 or 20?

Would you make the investments equal? Ie put the 200 K immediately into a trust or 529 for graduate school for your second? Or would you redo your kitchen or give it to your first kid for a house down payment?

I understand your point. We did not offer kid #1 the state school+200k option. I doubt he would have taken it but we didn't offer that, so I can see how that could create bad feelings, in addition to the bad feelings kid #2 could have if we went through with this scenario because kid #1 got their choice of school. I just think most non-top tier colleges are a terrible investment (and arguably so are some of the top tier ones) when you can get a good education at state schools but I do understand what you are saying.

Stop thinking about it as ROI. It isn't trade school.

disagree.. Today, colleges are about getting a good paying job after college. You would be stupid to not think about ROI.

I hear ya, OP. But, is the state school good for their major? Is the oos they want to go to considered great for their major with a great alumni network? Then it might be worth it.

Disagree.

For us, college is first about gaining understanding and knowledge and developing critical thinking and life skills.

Once you have an understanding of the world, then you can choose your place in it and decide whether and to what extent you wish to prioritize $$$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen this scenario play out and the outcome isn’t good. One kid went to Princeton the other had to go to a local city school. The city school graduate has a very bad relationship with his parents and is resentful that he wasn’t treated equally. Don’t be that parent. If you pay for the first you have to pay for the second. As another poster said, many schools provide merit scholarships. There is a huge difference between a state school and a private liberal arts school. Huge!! Prestige isn’t the only consideration when choosing schools. Fit matters more than that!

+1 "If you pay for the first you have to pay for the second." Well said, and true.

If I have a daughter who is very good at tennis, it makes sense to pay for her lessons growing up. But it doesn’t make sense to do the same for my son who is very bad at tennis. He would be better off spending the money somewhere else. In this case, the second kid can find something non-academic that he’s passionate about and good at, instead of wasting tons of money on an overpriced mediocre college.

[Anonymous]

Thats why I gave my kids a max budget unless they got into HSPM.

[Anonymous]

Just curious…
OP: What’s your cutoff for tier 1? T30-40??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would never in a million years pay anywhere near full price for a second or third tier private school, especially being Virginia residents, and would only pay for first tier if we were talking top ten or better. No Vanderbilts, Northwesterns, Notre Dames, Wash Us or Emorys over UVA—no way no how—no bullshit liberal arts college over William & Mary, no middling private over JMU, etc.

If I were OP I’d offer exactly what she’s proposing and hope the kid accepts. And I wouldn’t think twice about the first kid. As she said, he wouldn’t have gone for it anyway.

Northwestern is a top ten school now. I was willing to pay for any top 20 to 30 school (lowest would be Georgetown) or WASP, but I truly believe that you need meet your kid where they are at. I know too many kids who went to our nearby state school only to graduate in 5 or 6 years and then move back home. State schools require a kid who is self-motivated and on top of their stuff. Smaller colleges have more supports and advising.

Yea well, we have four kids and none of them did that, so my anecdote trumps yours.

[Anonymous]

2nd tier - yes!

3rd or 4th - nope.

[Anonymous]

Many 2nd and 3rd tier schools offer sufficient tuition discounts, posing as merit aid, that they become price competitive with state schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've always thought that I'd pay for a top tier school or state school, nothing in between. My first got into and attends a top tier school but my second will almost certainly not get into one, yet is interested in a number of second tier schools that have the same hefty price tag. Would you force your kid to attend a state school if they didn't get into a top tier school? With great sacrifice, we can afford to pay the second or third tier price tag but I can't help but think my kid would be better off at a state school and with ~200k (the likely cost difference) in a long-term investment.

Thus you would make that financial sacrifice for a T15/ivy(assume that is what you mean by top tier?)
IME "second tier" (From Notre Dame/Vandy down to Wake/BC, or good but non-top4 LAcs such as Davidson, Wellesley, Middlebury) is as good or better in MANY respects than UVA or William and Mary. I think you should pay, no question.

Third tier: What's that? T50 and below privates and LAcs at T25 and below? SMU, Lehigh, Tulane, Dickinson, Colby, Kenyon, Bucknell, Union?
Some of the latter have benefits for certain areas and certain kids over UVA /WM/VT.
Why wouldn't you pay if they are as good or close, and a better fit for your kid?

If there are safeties on their list that you honestly know are not worth the $ then either do not let kid apply or be very clear early that they must attend the in-state option if they get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've always thought that I'd pay for a top tier school or state school, nothing in between. My first got into and attends a top tier school but my second will almost certainly not get into one, yet is interested in a number of second tier schools that have the same hefty price tag. Would you force your kid to attend a state school if they didn't get into a top tier school? With great sacrifice, we can afford to pay the second or third tier price tag but I can't help but think my kid would be better off at a state school and with ~200k (the likely cost difference) in a long-term investment.

This is not worth the great sacrifice. In my family we have a saying - we do what’s right, not what’s fair. They are two different people and should be treated as such. Both my kids are going to less prestigious schools than what they got into, but was too expensive and frankly not worth the ROI.

It is not wrong to use that money on a new kitchen or retirement or vacation. You earned the money and need to think about your future as well. It’s not like you are throwing the kid out to the wolves. You are still willing to pay for a state school and have him debt free upon graduation.

[Anonymous]

second tier yeah