Black student experience at Maury

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I lived on Capitol Hill and had a black child, I would sooner send them to Friendship Chamberlain (where 3+ CAPE proficiency is 73% in both math and ELA for black students) than Maury, where it's 54 and 66%, respectively. The numbers at 4+ are even more pronounced: 46/56 at FC and 22/38 at Maury.

Since FC is 96% black and 59% at risk, there are a lot more non-at-risk black families there than at Maury (which is 20% black and 18% at risk). I'd rather go through 8th grade at Chamberlain than do Eliot-Hine, too.

This is a very smart analysis. I think it’s probably mostly accurate. I’d be very eagle eyed and sharp eared to make sure things were going well, but it’s a good thought.

The idea that a Jack & Jill mom is going to send her kids to Friendship PCS is just funny to me.

Do you think there are a lot of j&j folks at Maury? I would think more at Shepherd, Hyde-addison, maybe key and some dci feeders, or private.

Jack and Jill moms should not be the gold standard for anything. That organization is steeped in financial mismanagement and fraud. Such an embarrassment.

Bitter much? Sorry you didn’t get an invite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I lived on Capitol Hill and had a black child, I would sooner send them to Friendship Chamberlain (where 3+ CAPE proficiency is 73% in both math and ELA for black students) than Maury, where it's 54 and 66%, respectively. The numbers at 4+ are even more pronounced: 46/56 at FC and 22/38 at Maury.

Since FC is 96% black and 59% at risk, there are a lot more non-at-risk black families there than at Maury (which is 20% black and 18% at risk). I'd rather go through 8th grade at Chamberlain than do Eliot-Hine, too.

This is a very smart analysis. I think it’s probably mostly accurate. I’d be very eagle eyed and sharp eared to make sure things were going well, but it’s a good thought.

The idea that a Jack & Jill mom is going to send her kids to Friendship PCS is just funny to me.

Do you think there are a lot of j&j folks at Maury? I would think more at Shepherd, Hyde-addison, maybe key and some dci feeders, or private.

Jack and Jill moms should not be the gold standard for anything. That organization is steeped in financial mismanagement and fraud. Such an embarrassment.

Bitter much? Sorry you didn’t get an invite.

Babe - invited, participated and couldn’t wait to get out, so I left. And don’t miss it at all. Everyone and their mother knows the financial fraud the organization was up to. So embarrassing. Do you want me to post receipts?? 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I lived on Capitol Hill and had a black child, I would sooner send them to Friendship Chamberlain (where 3+ CAPE proficiency is 73% in both math and ELA for black students) than Maury, where it's 54 and 66%, respectively. The numbers at 4+ are even more pronounced: 46/56 at FC and 22/38 at Maury.

Since FC is 96% black and 59% at risk, there are a lot more non-at-risk black families there than at Maury (which is 20% black and 18% at risk). I'd rather go through 8th grade at Chamberlain than do Eliot-Hine, too.

This is a very smart analysis. I think it’s probably mostly accurate. I’d be very eagle eyed and sharp eared to make sure things were going well, but it’s a good thought.

The idea that a Jack & Jill mom is going to send her kids to Friendship PCS is just funny to me.

Do you think there are a lot of j&j folks at Maury? I would think more at Shepherd, Hyde-addison, maybe key and some dci feeders, or private.

Jack and Jill moms should not be the gold standard for anything. That organization is steeped in financial mismanagement and fraud. Such an embarrassment.

Bitter much? Sorry you didn’t get an invite.

Babe - invited, participated and couldn’t wait to get out, so I left. And don’t miss it at all. Everyone and their mother knows the financial fraud the organization was up to. So embarrassing. Do you want me to post receipts?? 🙄

Let’s see them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before you make up some bs about how Stuart Hobson is so much better at teaching than basis note that this kid thrived at Stuart Hobson because it was “hilariously easy” and he could goof off and act out with the other kids all day. And sure enough this came back to bite him in high school. High school requires hard work and commitment, and he learned nothing in middle school and needed to catch up which he did not manage to do.

If this kid is already off at Walls, and already being "bitten" by the lack of preparation he got at SH, we're talking awhile ago. But also, if he was really "failing out" of BASIS, then I'm pretty skeptical of this whole story.

SH is full of basis losers.

I’d say the loser is the adult making sweeping generalizations about 500+ kids on an anonymous message board. There’s no cause to tear them down because you don’t like the school they attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're going to have a bunch of non-Black people responding to what they think the experiences of Black students are.

This feels potentially true (white Maury parent here). Hope we are wrong though and you get helpful answers. In case not and in case helpful, my kid in 5th has a diverse friend group and when I see them interact in their peer group it all seems focused on their common interests, senses of humor, etc. From what I can see, their experience isn't an outlier. The teaching staff is also diverse. And I'm not sure about going on to Eliot Hine MS but almost all the kids in my kid's class are going there. Hope parents with direct experiences respond and this helps bump up your question!

Is this really true? My kid is in 5th grade at a very similar school in many respects and I am actually struck by how racially divided friend groups are — AA and white/otherr. There are a few UMC Black kids who straddle both groups and who also have their own little social group, but otherwise it is pretty divided along racial and economic lines. Now it’s a friendly school and all of the kids seem to get along fine. There are plenty of mixed race bigger parties. But smaller parties/sleepovers? Pretty divided.

I find it really noticeable because I went to a diverse school growing up, but where race and economics were not so linked and there was not similar racial separation. Because the UMC Black kids are part of both groups, I think it’s SES/class primarily driving it, but it’s apparent.

Anyway, genuinely curious if this is less true at Maury?

PP here - yes, it’s true. I mean, it’s my one kid’s experience and I can’t speak for others. Also saw another PP’s statement that experienced black teachers have all retired - that’s false.

FWIW, I’m white and the Eliot Hine boosterism and guilting is possibly my least favorite part of Maury too.

So what exactly is the impetus there if not to improve school buy-in and keep peer groups together? It reads as if other parents are pushing this option on other parents while keeping their secret great middle school to themselves.. but there is no other decent option other than trying to transfer into SH, or lottery out where everyone has the same possibility more or less.

To be fair I think the impetus for pushing EH at Maury probably is, at root, a positive one--to encourage Maury (code for UMS) kids to attend and (though this is an awkward thing to admit) thereby improve the school's ratings, which should then start snowballing with positive effects. Nothing wrong in theory with wanting to strengthen all schools on the Hill.

The myopic and highly aggressive approach is the problem. The narrative is relentless. "WE are all going to Eliot Hine and WE will all be constantly barraged with Eliot Hine events and opportunities because WE are all buying in as good community members." To counter with "I've decided this is not the right fit for my child" (whether because of race, class, or any other factor related to your kid's personality or learning style), or even to silently distance yourself from the narrative, is therefore grounds for suspicion of racism, classicism, elitism. It is a handful of parents who are responsible and as another PP mentioned in describing their interaction with one of these mothers, they are out of control. To be honest, maybe Eliot Hine is a decent option for some kids, but there's such a tone of desperation and forced compliance that the positive statements feel less credible.

At root no one should be applying negative labels to someone else's parenting decision to send their child to a different school. There's a fault in the EH boosters' logic. To get people to buy in to Eliot Hine you have to convince people to look past the test scores and absenteeism rates among staff and students--i.e., to see the school as a "good fit" for their kid, whether it's because they're self-motivated, or because they like to walk to school with a small cohort, or because they want to join track and field and it's easier at EH to make the teams because of the school size, or whatever the case may be. And yet they criticize anyone who makes these individualized assessments about their own child and happens to reach the conclusion that EH is not a "good fit" for their kid--in that case, you must be a snob or a racist. It's a double standard which again has a whiff of desperation about it. Do you question your own choice to decide it was good enough for your kid and only by trying to strong arm an entire neighborhood into making the same choice do you feel validated? That's how it feels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're going to have a bunch of non-Black people responding to what they think the experiences of Black students are.

This feels potentially true (white Maury parent here). Hope we are wrong though and you get helpful answers. In case not and in case helpful, my kid in 5th has a diverse friend group and when I see them interact in their peer group it all seems focused on their common interests, senses of humor, etc. From what I can see, their experience isn't an outlier. The teaching staff is also diverse. And I'm not sure about going on to Eliot Hine MS but almost all the kids in my kid's class are going there. Hope parents with direct experiences respond and this helps bump up your question!

Is this really true? My kid is in 5th grade at a very similar school in many respects and I am actually struck by how racially divided friend groups are — AA and white/otherr. There are a few UMC Black kids who straddle both groups and who also have their own little social group, but otherwise it is pretty divided along racial and economic lines. Now it’s a friendly school and all of the kids seem to get along fine. There are plenty of mixed race bigger parties. But smaller parties/sleepovers? Pretty divided.

I find it really noticeable because I went to a diverse school growing up, but where race and economics were not so linked and there was not similar racial separation. Because the UMC Black kids are part of both groups, I think it’s SES/class primarily driving it, but it’s apparent.

Anyway, genuinely curious if this is less true at Maury?

PP here - yes, it’s true. I mean, it’s my one kid’s experience and I can’t speak for others. Also saw another PP’s statement that experienced black teachers have all retired - that’s false.

FWIW, I’m white and the Eliot Hine boosterism and guilting is possibly my least favorite part of Maury too.

So what exactly is the impetus there if not to improve school buy-in and keep peer groups together? It reads as if other parents are pushing this option on other parents while keeping their secret great middle school to themselves.. but there is no other decent option other than trying to transfer into SH, or lottery out where everyone has the same possibility more or less.

To be fair I think the impetus for pushing EH at Maury probably is, at root, a positive one--to encourage Maury (code for UMS) kids to attend and (though this is an awkward thing to admit) thereby improve the school's ratings, which should then start snowballing with positive effects. Nothing wrong in theory with wanting to strengthen all schools on the Hill.

The myopic and highly aggressive approach is the problem. The narrative is relentless. "WE are all going to Eliot Hine and WE will all be constantly barraged with Eliot Hine events and opportunities because WE are all buying in as good community members." To counter with "I've decided this is not the right fit for my child" (whether because of race, class, or any other factor related to your kid's personality or learning style), or even to silently distance yourself from the narrative, is therefore grounds for suspicion of racism, classicism, elitism. It is a handful of parents who are responsible and as another PP mentioned in describing their interaction with one of these mothers, they are out of control. To be honest, maybe Eliot Hine is a decent option for some kids, but there's such a tone of desperation and forced compliance that the positive statements feel less credible.

At root no one should be applying negative labels to someone else's parenting decision to send their child to a different school. There's a fault in the EH boosters' logic. To get people to buy in to Eliot Hine you have to convince people to look past the test scores and absenteeism rates among staff and students--i.e., to see the school as a "good fit" for their kid, whether it's because they're self-motivated, or because they like to walk to school with a small cohort, or because they want to join track and field and it's easier at EH to make the teams because of the school size, or whatever the case may be. And yet they criticize anyone who makes these individualized assessments about their own child and happens to reach the conclusion that EH is not a "good fit" for their kid--in that case, you must be a snob or a racist. It's a double standard which again has a whiff of desperation about it. Do you question your own choice to decide it was good enough for your kid and only by trying to strong arm an entire neighborhood into making the same choice do you feel validated? That's how it feels.

I agree that how people organize and talk about schools really matters. If it feels aggressive, that’s going to turn people off.

At the same time, if we’re being honest about what it takes to have strong, stable neighborhood schools, it doesn’t happen by accident. It happens because some families decide to invest, show up, and put themselves out there in ways that may not be perfectly messaged. Most of the people doing that aren’t professional organizers, they’re parents trying to build something better, and that work can be messy.

I also think it’s important to hold two truths at once. Sometimes a school genuinely isn’t the right fit for a child, and those decisions are valid. But sometimes “fit” can also be shaped by comfort levels around race, class, or familiarity. That doesn’t mean every decision is problematic, but I don’t think we need to look further than this board to know some parents will outright dismiss a school because they don’t like what they see while walking their dog by it.

If the goal is stronger neighborhood schools that more families feel good about, then we need both the people doing the hard (sometimes imperfect) work of building buy-in and a community that can engage in that conversation and hopefully approach the school decision with some curiosity about what people with actual experience at the school are sharing about it.

This is personal- it’s our kids, our schools, and our communities, so of course there are going to be feelings involved. But if we approach it with a little more humility about both our choices and our assumptions, it probably gets us a lot closer to the outcome most people say they want

[Anonymous]

i actually think a lot of its a little more people with older siblings tried the school ended up happy and just want to help others understand that its truly an okay middle school option. my child goes there and im really not judging anyone who went charter or private or whatever. if we had gotten into latin we probably would have gone and tried it. but i also know some people who are bending over backwards to avoid the school and my elementary school concern has been proven wrong by my actual experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're going to have a bunch of non-Black people responding to what they think the experiences of Black students are.

This feels potentially true (white Maury parent here). Hope we are wrong though and you get helpful answers. In case not and in case helpful, my kid in 5th has a diverse friend group and when I see them interact in their peer group it all seems focused on their common interests, senses of humor, etc. From what I can see, their experience isn't an outlier. The teaching staff is also diverse. And I'm not sure about going on to Eliot Hine MS but almost all the kids in my kid's class are going there. Hope parents with direct experiences respond and this helps bump up your question!

Is this really true? My kid is in 5th grade at a very similar school in many respects and I am actually struck by how racially divided friend groups are — AA and white/otherr. There are a few UMC Black kids who straddle both groups and who also have their own little social group, but otherwise it is pretty divided along racial and economic lines. Now it’s a friendly school and all of the kids seem to get along fine. There are plenty of mixed race bigger parties. But smaller parties/sleepovers? Pretty divided.

I find it really noticeable because I went to a diverse school growing up, but where race and economics were not so linked and there was not similar racial separation. Because the UMC Black kids are part of both groups, I think it’s SES/class primarily driving it, but it’s apparent.

Anyway, genuinely curious if this is less true at Maury?

PP here - yes, it’s true. I mean, it’s my one kid’s experience and I can’t speak for others. Also saw another PP’s statement that experienced black teachers have all retired - that’s false.

FWIW, I’m white and the Eliot Hine boosterism and guilting is possibly my least favorite part of Maury too.

So what exactly is the impetus there if not to improve school buy-in and keep peer groups together? It reads as if other parents are pushing this option on other parents while keeping their secret great middle school to themselves.. but there is no other decent option other than trying to transfer into SH, or lottery out where everyone has the same possibility more or less.

To be fair I think the impetus for pushing EH at Maury probably is, at root, a positive one--to encourage Maury (code for UMS) kids to attend and (though this is an awkward thing to admit) thereby improve the school's ratings, which should then start snowballing with positive effects. Nothing wrong in theory with wanting to strengthen all schools on the Hill.

The myopic and highly aggressive approach is the problem. The narrative is relentless. "WE are all going to Eliot Hine and WE will all be constantly barraged with Eliot Hine events and opportunities because WE are all buying in as good community members." To counter with "I've decided this is not the right fit for my child" (whether because of race, class, or any other factor related to your kid's personality or learning style), or even to silently distance yourself from the narrative, is therefore grounds for suspicion of racism, classicism, elitism. It is a handful of parents who are responsible and as another PP mentioned in describing their interaction with one of these mothers, they are out of control. To be honest, maybe Eliot Hine is a decent option for some kids, but there's such a tone of desperation and forced compliance that the positive statements feel less credible.

At root no one should be applying negative labels to someone else's parenting decision to send their child to a different school. There's a fault in the EH boosters' logic. To get people to buy in to Eliot Hine you have to convince people to look past the test scores and absenteeism rates among staff and students--i.e., to see the school as a "good fit" for their kid, whether it's because they're self-motivated, or because they like to walk to school with a small cohort, or because they want to join track and field and it's easier at EH to make the teams because of the school size, or whatever the case may be. And yet they criticize anyone who makes these individualized assessments about their own child and happens to reach the conclusion that EH is not a "good fit" for their kid--in that case, you must be a snob or a racist. It's a double standard which again has a whiff of desperation about it. Do you question your own choice to decide it was good enough for your kid and only by trying to strong arm an entire neighborhood into making the same choice do you feel validated? That's how it feels.

This all makes sense, but as somebody who has kids at Eliot Hine, I would argue there is a third category of people that is not included in your post. As the school grows in enrollment I feel like it is happening less, but there are often sweeping generalizations about schools, the students, the courses, etc. that are made by people with little to no actual firsthand knowledge about the school. This does not just happen re: Eliot Hine - anybody who reads any threads on here can see it is a common practice among adults in this city. As a parent who has kids at the school, I may respond to comments here, or answer questions in person - to explain what our lived experience is at the school. Is it perfect? No. Do I care if kids go to other schools? Also no. But it is frustrating try to use an anecdotal, second hand, or overheard experience to describe a whole school. There are a lot of us in this middle category, and I would not qualify us as boosters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're going to have a bunch of non-Black people responding to what they think the experiences of Black students are.

This feels potentially true (white Maury parent here). Hope we are wrong though and you get helpful answers. In case not and in case helpful, my kid in 5th has a diverse friend group and when I see them interact in their peer group it all seems focused on their common interests, senses of humor, etc. From what I can see, their experience isn't an outlier. The teaching staff is also diverse. And I'm not sure about going on to Eliot Hine MS but almost all the kids in my kid's class are going there. Hope parents with direct experiences respond and this helps bump up your question!

Is this really true? My kid is in 5th grade at a very similar school in many respects and I am actually struck by how racially divided friend groups are — AA and white/otherr. There are a few UMC Black kids who straddle both groups and who also have their own little social group, but otherwise it is pretty divided along racial and economic lines. Now it’s a friendly school and all of the kids seem to get along fine. There are plenty of mixed race bigger parties. But smaller parties/sleepovers? Pretty divided.

I find it really noticeable because I went to a diverse school growing up, but where race and economics were not so linked and there was not similar racial separation. Because the UMC Black kids are part of both groups, I think it’s SES/class primarily driving it, but it’s apparent.

Anyway, genuinely curious if this is less true at Maury?

PP here - yes, it’s true. I mean, it’s my one kid’s experience and I can’t speak for others. Also saw another PP’s statement that experienced black teachers have all retired - that’s false.

FWIW, I’m white and the Eliot Hine boosterism and guilting is possibly my least favorite part of Maury too.

So what exactly is the impetus there if not to improve school buy-in and keep peer groups together? It reads as if other parents are pushing this option on other parents while keeping their secret great middle school to themselves.. but there is no other decent option other than trying to transfer into SH, or lottery out where everyone has the same possibility more or less.

To be fair I think the impetus for pushing EH at Maury probably is, at root, a positive one--to encourage Maury (code for UMS) kids to attend and (though this is an awkward thing to admit) thereby improve the school's ratings, which should then start snowballing with positive effects. Nothing wrong in theory with wanting to strengthen all schools on the Hill.

The myopic and highly aggressive approach is the problem. The narrative is relentless. "WE are all going to Eliot Hine and WE will all be constantly barraged with Eliot Hine events and opportunities because WE are all buying in as good community members." To counter with "I've decided this is not the right fit for my child" (whether because of race, class, or any other factor related to your kid's personality or learning style), or even to silently distance yourself from the narrative, is therefore grounds for suspicion of racism, classicism, elitism. It is a handful of parents who are responsible and as another PP mentioned in describing their interaction with one of these mothers, they are out of control. To be honest, maybe Eliot Hine is a decent option for some kids, but there's such a tone of desperation and forced compliance that the positive statements feel less credible.

At root no one should be applying negative labels to someone else's parenting decision to send their child to a different school. There's a fault in the EH boosters' logic. To get people to buy in to Eliot Hine you have to convince people to look past the test scores and absenteeism rates among staff and students--i.e., to see the school as a "good fit" for their kid, whether it's because they're self-motivated, or because they like to walk to school with a small cohort, or because they want to join track and field and it's easier at EH to make the teams because of the school size, or whatever the case may be. And yet they criticize anyone who makes these individualized assessments about their own child and happens to reach the conclusion that EH is not a "good fit" for their kid--in that case, you must be a snob or a racist. It's a double standard which again has a whiff of desperation about it. Do you question your own choice to decide it was good enough for your kid and only by trying to strong arm an entire neighborhood into making the same choice do you feel validated? That's how it feels.

This all makes sense, but as somebody who has kids at Eliot Hine, I would argue there is a third category of people that is not included in your post. As the school grows in enrollment I feel like it is happening less, but there are often sweeping generalizations about schools, the students, the courses, etc. that are made by people with little to no actual firsthand knowledge about the school. This does not just happen re: Eliot Hine - anybody who reads any threads on here can see it is a common practice among adults in this city. As a parent who has kids at the school, I may respond to comments here, or answer questions in person - to explain what our lived experience is at the school. Is it perfect? No. Do I care if kids go to other schools? Also no. But it is frustrating try to use an anecdotal, second hand, or overheard experience to describe a whole school. There are a lot of us in this middle category, and I would not qualify us as boosters.

PP - I don’t disagree. I wish the dominant narrative was yours. Unfortunately the pushy mothers are getting all the airtime, which serves no one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're going to have a bunch of non-Black people responding to what they think the experiences of Black students are.

This feels potentially true (white Maury parent here). Hope we are wrong though and you get helpful answers. In case not and in case helpful, my kid in 5th has a diverse friend group and when I see them interact in their peer group it all seems focused on their common interests, senses of humor, etc. From what I can see, their experience isn't an outlier. The teaching staff is also diverse. And I'm not sure about going on to Eliot Hine MS but almost all the kids in my kid's class are going there. Hope parents with direct experiences respond and this helps bump up your question!

Is this really true? My kid is in 5th grade at a very similar school in many respects and I am actually struck by how racially divided friend groups are — AA and white/otherr. There are a few UMC Black kids who straddle both groups and who also have their own little social group, but otherwise it is pretty divided along racial and economic lines. Now it’s a friendly school and all of the kids seem to get along fine. There are plenty of mixed race bigger parties. But smaller parties/sleepovers? Pretty divided.

I find it really noticeable because I went to a diverse school growing up, but where race and economics were not so linked and there was not similar racial separation. Because the UMC Black kids are part of both groups, I think it’s SES/class primarily driving it, but it’s apparent.



Anyway, genuinely curious if this is less true at Maury?

PP here - yes, it’s true. I mean, it’s my one kid’s experience and I can’t speak for others. Also saw another PP’s statement that experienced black teachers have all retired - that’s false.

FWIW, I’m white and the Eliot Hine boosterism and guilting is possibly my least favorite part of Maury too.

So what exactly is the impetus there if not to improve school buy-in and keep peer groups together? It reads as if other parents are pushing this option on other parents while keeping their secret great middle school to themselves.. but there is no other decent option other than trying to transfer into SH, or lottery out where everyone has the same possibility more or less.

To be fair I think the impetus for pushing EH at Maury probably is, at root, a positive one--to encourage Maury (code for UMS) kids to attend and (though this is an awkward thing to admit) thereby improve the school's ratings, which should then start snowballing with positive effects. Nothing wrong in theory with wanting to strengthen all schools on the Hill.

The myopic and highly aggressive approach is the problem. The narrative is relentless. "WE are all going to Eliot Hine and WE will all be constantly barraged with Eliot Hine events and opportunities because WE are all buying in as good community members." To counter with "I've decided this is not the right fit for my child" (whether because of race, class, or any other factor related to your kid's personality or learning style), or even to silently distance yourself from the narrative, is therefore grounds for suspicion of racism, classicism, elitism. It is a handful of parents who are responsible and as another PP mentioned in describing their interaction with one of these mothers, they are out of control. To be honest, maybe Eliot Hine is a decent option for some kids, but there's such a tone of desperation and forced compliance that the positive statements feel less credible.

At root no one should be applying negative labels to someone else's parenting decision to send their child to a different school. There's a fault in the EH boosters' logic. To get people to buy in to Eliot Hine you have to convince people to look past the test scores and absenteeism rates among staff and students--i.e., to see the school as a "good fit" for their kid, whether it's because they're self-motivated, or because they like to walk to school with a small cohort, or because they want to join track and field and it's easier at EH to make the teams because of the school size, or whatever the case may be. And yet they criticize anyone who makes these individualized assessments about their own child and happens to reach the conclusion that EH is not a "good fit" for their kid--in that case, you must be a snob or a racist. It's a double standard which again has a whiff of desperation about it. Do you question your own choice to decide it was good enough for your kid and only by trying to strong arm an entire neighborhood into making the same choice do you feel validated? That's how it feels.

This all makes sense, but as somebody who has kids at Eliot Hine, I would argue there is a third category of people that is not included in your post. As the school grows in enrollment I feel like it is happening less, but there are often sweeping generalizations about schools, the students, the courses, etc. that are made by people with little to no actual firsthand knowledge about the school. This does not just happen re: Eliot Hine - anybody who reads any threads on here can see it is a common practice among adults in this city. As a parent who has kids at the school, I may respond to comments here, or answer questions in person - to explain what our lived experience is at the school. Is it perfect? No. Do I care if kids go to other schools? Also no. But it is frustrating try to use an anecdotal, second hand, or overheard experience to describe a whole school. There are a lot of us in this middle category, and I would not qualify us as boosters.

I don't disagree, but this happens with ALL schools. My kid goes to BASIS and all I hear is how soulless the building is or how awful the amount of homework is or how sad that there are hardly any sports. My kid is happy there; and our experience has been different, yet this idea that the school is ridiculously hard and militant persists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're going to have a bunch of non-Black people responding to what they think the experiences of Black students are.

This feels potentially true (white Maury parent here). Hope we are wrong though and you get helpful answers. In case not and in case helpful, my kid in 5th has a diverse friend group and when I see them interact in their peer group it all seems focused on their common interests, senses of humor, etc. From what I can see, their experience isn't an outlier. The teaching staff is also diverse. And I'm not sure about going on to Eliot Hine MS but almost all the kids in my kid's class are going there. Hope parents with direct experiences respond and this helps bump up your question!

Is this really true? My kid is in 5th grade at a very similar school in many respects and I am actually struck by how racially divided friend groups are — AA and white/otherr. There are a few UMC Black kids who straddle both groups and who also have their own little social group, but otherwise it is pretty divided along racial and economic lines. Now it’s a friendly school and all of the kids seem to get along fine. There are plenty of mixed race bigger parties. But smaller parties/sleepovers? Pretty divided.

I find it really noticeable because I went to a diverse school growing up, but where race and economics were not so linked and there was not similar racial separation. Because the UMC Black kids are part of both groups, I think it’s SES/class primarily driving it, but it’s apparent.



Anyway, genuinely curious if this is less true at Maury?

PP here - yes, it’s true. I mean, it’s my one kid’s experience and I can’t speak for others. Also saw another PP’s statement that experienced black teachers have all retired - that’s false.

FWIW, I’m white and the Eliot Hine boosterism and guilting is possibly my least favorite part of Maury too.

So what exactly is the impetus there if not to improve school buy-in and keep peer groups together? It reads as if other parents are pushing this option on other parents while keeping their secret great middle school to themselves.. but there is no other decent option other than trying to transfer into SH, or lottery out where everyone has the same possibility more or less.

To be fair I think the impetus for pushing EH at Maury probably is, at root, a positive one--to encourage Maury (code for UMS) kids to attend and (though this is an awkward thing to admit) thereby improve the school's ratings, which should then start snowballing with positive effects. Nothing wrong in theory with wanting to strengthen all schools on the Hill.

The myopic and highly aggressive approach is the problem. The narrative is relentless. "WE are all going to Eliot Hine and WE will all be constantly barraged with Eliot Hine events and opportunities because WE are all buying in as good community members." To counter with "I've decided this is not the right fit for my child" (whether because of race, class, or any other factor related to your kid's personality or learning style), or even to silently distance yourself from the narrative, is therefore grounds for suspicion of racism, classicism, elitism. It is a handful of parents who are responsible and as another PP mentioned in describing their interaction with one of these mothers, they are out of control. To be honest, maybe Eliot Hine is a decent option for some kids, but there's such a tone of desperation and forced compliance that the positive statements feel less credible.

At root no one should be applying negative labels to someone else's parenting decision to send their child to a different school. There's a fault in the EH boosters' logic. To get people to buy in to Eliot Hine you have to convince people to look past the test scores and absenteeism rates among staff and students--i.e., to see the school as a "good fit" for their kid, whether it's because they're self-motivated, or because they like to walk to school with a small cohort, or because they want to join track and field and it's easier at EH to make the teams because of the school size, or whatever the case may be. And yet they criticize anyone who makes these individualized assessments about their own child and happens to reach the conclusion that EH is not a "good fit" for their kid--in that case, you must be a snob or a racist. It's a double standard which again has a whiff of desperation about it. Do you question your own choice to decide it was good enough for your kid and only by trying to strong arm an entire neighborhood into making the same choice do you feel validated? That's how it feels.

This all makes sense, but as somebody who has kids at Eliot Hine, I would argue there is a third category of people that is not included in your post. As the school grows in enrollment I feel like it is happening less, but there are often sweeping generalizations about schools, the students, the courses, etc. that are made by people with little to no actual firsthand knowledge about the school. This does not just happen re: Eliot Hine - anybody who reads any threads on here can see it is a common practice among adults in this city. As a parent who has kids at the school, I may respond to comments here, or answer questions in person - to explain what our lived experience is at the school. Is it perfect? No. Do I care if kids go to other schools? Also no. But it is frustrating try to use an anecdotal, second hand, or overheard experience to describe a whole school. There are a lot of us in this middle category, and I would not qualify us as boosters.

I don't disagree, but this happens with ALL schools. My kid goes to BASIS and all I hear is how soulless the building is or how awful the amount of homework is or how sad that there are hardly any sports. My kid is happy there; and our experience has been different, yet this idea that the school is ridiculously hard and militant persists.

The building is awful, but my Basis kids has literally never raised a complaint about it and genuinely likes the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're going to have a bunch of non-Black people responding to what they think the experiences of Black students are.

This feels potentially true (white Maury parent here). Hope we are wrong though and you get helpful answers. In case not and in case helpful, my kid in 5th has a diverse friend group and when I see them interact in their peer group it all seems focused on their common interests, senses of humor, etc. From what I can see, their experience isn't an outlier. The teaching staff is also diverse. And I'm not sure about going on to Eliot Hine MS but almost all the kids in my kid's class are going there. Hope parents with direct experiences respond and this helps bump up your question!

Is this really true? My kid is in 5th grade at a very similar school in many respects and I am actually struck by how racially divided friend groups are — AA and white/otherr. There are a few UMC Black kids who straddle both groups and who also have their own little social group, but otherwise it is pretty divided along racial and economic lines. Now it’s a friendly school and all of the kids seem to get along fine. There are plenty of mixed race bigger parties. But smaller parties/sleepovers? Pretty divided.

I find it really noticeable because I went to a diverse school growing up, but where race and economics were not so linked and there was not similar racial separation. Because the UMC Black kids are part of both groups, I think it’s SES/class primarily driving it, but it’s apparent.

Anyway, genuinely curious if this is less true at Maury?

PP here - yes, it’s true. I mean, it’s my one kid’s experience and I can’t speak for others. Also saw another PP’s statement that experienced black teachers have all retired - that’s false.

FWIW, I’m white and the Eliot Hine boosterism and guilting is possibly my least favorite part of Maury too.

So what exactly is the impetus there if not to improve school buy-in and keep peer groups together? It reads as if other parents are pushing this option on other parents while keeping their secret great middle school to themselves.. but there is no other decent option other than trying to transfer into SH, or lottery out where everyone has the same possibility more or less.

To be fair I think the impetus for pushing EH at Maury probably is, at root, a positive one--to encourage Maury (code for UMS) kids to attend and (though this is an awkward thing to admit) thereby improve the school's ratings, which should then start snowballing with positive effects. Nothing wrong in theory with wanting to strengthen all schools on the Hill.

The myopic and highly aggressive approach is the problem. The narrative is relentless. "WE are all going to Eliot Hine and WE will all be constantly barraged with Eliot Hine events and opportunities because WE are all buying in as good community members." To counter with "I've decided this is not the right fit for my child" (whether because of race, class, or any other factor related to your kid's personality or learning style), or even to silently distance yourself from the narrative, is therefore grounds for suspicion of racism, classicism, elitism. It is a handful of parents who are responsible and as another PP mentioned in describing their interaction with one of these mothers, they are out of control. To be honest, maybe Eliot Hine is a decent option for some kids, but there's such a tone of desperation and forced compliance that the positive statements feel less credible.

At root no one should be applying negative labels to someone else's parenting decision to send their child to a different school. There's a fault in the EH boosters' logic. To get people to buy in to Eliot Hine you have to convince people to look past the test scores and absenteeism rates among staff and students--i.e., to see the school as a "good fit" for their kid, whether it's because they're self-motivated, or because they like to walk to school with a small cohort, or because they want to join track and field and it's easier at EH to make the teams because of the school size, or whatever the case may be. And yet they criticize anyone who makes these individualized assessments about their own child and happens to reach the conclusion that EH is not a "good fit" for their kid--in that case, you must be a snob or a racist. It's a double standard which again has a whiff of desperation about it. Do you question your own choice to decide it was good enough for your kid and only by trying to strong arm an entire neighborhood into making the same choice do you feel validated? That's how it feels.

This was way too many words. It’s just a school not a psychological obstacle course or “narrative.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i actually think a lot of its a little more people with older siblings tried the school ended up happy and just want to help others understand that its truly an okay middle school option. my child goes there and im really not judging anyone who went charter or private or whatever. if we had gotten into latin we probably would have gone and tried it. but i also know some people who are bending over backwards to avoid the school and my elementary school concern has been proven wrong by my actual experience.

+1. not that complicated.