Black student experience at Maury

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're going to have a bunch of non-Black people responding to what they think the experiences of Black students are.

This feels potentially true (white Maury parent here). Hope we are wrong though and you get helpful answers. In case not and in case helpful, my kid in 5th has a diverse friend group and when I see them interact in their peer group it all seems focused on their common interests, senses of humor, etc. From what I can see, their experience isn't an outlier. The teaching staff is also diverse. And I'm not sure about going on to Eliot Hine MS but almost all the kids in my kid's class are going there. Hope parents with direct experiences respond and this helps bump up your question!

Is this really true? My kid is in 5th grade at a very similar school in many respects and I am actually struck by how racially divided friend groups are — AA and white/otherr. There are a few UMC Black kids who straddle both groups and who also have their own little social group, but otherwise it is pretty divided along racial and economic lines. Now it’s a friendly school and all of the kids seem to get along fine. There are plenty of mixed race bigger parties. But smaller parties/sleepovers? Pretty divided.

I find it really noticeable because I went to a diverse school growing up, but where race and economics were not so linked and there was not similar racial separation. Because the UMC Black kids are part of both groups, I think it’s SES/class primarily driving it, but it’s apparent.

Anyway, genuinely curious if this is less true at Maury?

The UMC black kids are performing a complex dance of social calibration, the sort of which becomes exhausting and ultimately futile. Life is much easier where there is easy, consistent overlap between your racial and SES group. For UMC blacks, this is never the case in DC public schools — almost universally true for white folks. Social straddling of the sort required by UMC black kids in such environments is just a necessary chore.

Shepherd, Banneker, Duke Ellington?

Charter schools. Dcps doesn’t actually teach black or brown students.

OP Here. Pouring through the minutia of data, i’ve noticed the same across various schools.. it’s really really odd.. I wouldnt put the schools listed in that category though.

Are you looking at test scores? The problem is that race is used as a proxy for SES/highly educated but you need to dig a little deeper. So while for example you can see that white kids at EH do just as well if not better as compared to Deal etc, you can also see that the total percentage of high scores is often greater than the percentage of white kids. Or another way to see it is that at EH your kid is likely (with your oversight) going to do just as well as high SES white kids because you are going to get them into algebra in 7th, monitor their homework, etc. now there may be other reasons you prefer other schools but I truly think you can expect your kid to do just as well.

The academics may be fine-ish, but most UMC blacks folks would do better in a setting with more SES diversity within the black student population or, ideally, a black population that skews UMC (or at least MC) outright. Of course, this is primarily a unicorn outside of curated private schools!

THIS. And as an aside, this is why Black folks aren't upset that McDuffie doesn't send his kids to DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're going to have a bunch of non-Black people responding to what they think the experiences of Black students are.

This feels potentially true (white Maury parent here). Hope we are wrong though and you get helpful answers. In case not and in case helpful, my kid in 5th has a diverse friend group and when I see them interact in their peer group it all seems focused on their common interests, senses of humor, etc. From what I can see, their experience isn't an outlier. The teaching staff is also diverse. And I'm not sure about going on to Eliot Hine MS but almost all the kids in my kid's class are going there. Hope parents with direct experiences respond and this helps bump up your question!

Is this really true? My kid is in 5th grade at a very similar school in many respects and I am actually struck by how racially divided friend groups are — AA and white/otherr. There are a few UMC Black kids who straddle both groups and who also have their own little social group, but otherwise it is pretty divided along racial and economic lines. Now it’s a friendly school and all of the kids seem to get along fine. There are plenty of mixed race bigger parties. But smaller parties/sleepovers? Pretty divided.

I find it really noticeable because I went to a diverse school growing up, but where race and economics were not so linked and there was not similar racial separation. Because the UMC Black kids are part of both groups, I think it’s SES/class primarily driving it, but it’s apparent.

Anyway, genuinely curious if this is less true at Maury?

The UMC black kids are performing a complex dance of social calibration, the sort of which becomes exhausting and ultimately futile. Life is much easier where there is easy, consistent overlap between your racial and SES group. For UMC blacks, this is never the case in DC public schools — almost universally true for white folks. Social straddling of the sort required by UMC black kids in such environments is just a necessary chore.

Shepherd, Banneker, Duke Ellington?

Charter schools. Dcps doesn’t actually teach black or brown students.

None of the three schools listed above are charters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the worst part of being a POC in the Maury zone is having white women tell you the best middle and high school for your kids. I didn’t ask your opinion and I’m more than capable of choosing the appropriate school for my kids. Just because you decided to have your kid attend Eliot Hine and Eastern doesn’t mean that I need to make the same choice.

Oh for sure. But another way to see this is that I think you deserve access to the same information that is shared between white moms! I don’t think you need to make that choice but I want you to have the same information I have …

Why would you assume that white moms have information that a POC can't access? If this is a situation where the PTA or principal or someone is only sharing info with white moms, fix that with the PTA or the principal. Don't pass along info out of some sense of noblesse oblige.

And if it's not information but half-baked feelings or perceptions, don't assume that other parents want it.

[Anonymous]

If I lived on Capitol Hill and had a black child, I would sooner send them to Friendship Chamberlain (where 3+ CAPE proficiency is 73% in both math and ELA for black students) than Maury, where it's 54 and 66%, respectively. The numbers at 4+ are even more pronounced: 46/56 at FC and 22/38 at Maury.

Since FC is 96% black and 59% at risk, there are a lot more non-at-risk black families there than at Maury (which is 20% black and 18% at risk). I'd rather go through 8th grade at Chamberlain than do Eliot-Hine, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I only have anecdotes from friends but I think if you are looking for a diverse school with strong academics in DCPS, it’s hard to find one like Maury that meets that criteria except maybe for Shepherd. The particular difficulty may be social between the at-risk black kids and the UMC ones. FWIW none of the middle class or international black families I knew of went on to the MS … they did privates or charters.

Academically the school sees enough kids of all types that I don’t think you have to worry about your kid not being challenged or being assumed to be at-risk, but that would be one thing to look out for.

Others I would put in that category (depending on your definitions of "diverse" and "strong academics") include Hyde-Addison, Whittier, Ludlow-Taylor, Garrison, and Seaton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're going to have a bunch of non-Black people responding to what they think the experiences of Black students are.

This feels potentially true (white Maury parent here). Hope we are wrong though and you get helpful answers. In case not and in case helpful, my kid in 5th has a diverse friend group and when I see them interact in their peer group it all seems focused on their common interests, senses of humor, etc. From what I can see, their experience isn't an outlier. The teaching staff is also diverse. And I'm not sure about going on to Eliot Hine MS but almost all the kids in my kid's class are going there. Hope parents with direct experiences respond and this helps bump up your question!

Is this really true? My kid is in 5th grade at a very similar school in many respects and I am actually struck by how racially divided friend groups are — AA and white/otherr. There are a few UMC Black kids who straddle both groups and who also have their own little social group, but otherwise it is pretty divided along racial and economic lines. Now it’s a friendly school and all of the kids seem to get along fine. There are plenty of mixed race bigger parties. But smaller parties/sleepovers? Pretty divided.

I find it really noticeable because I went to a diverse school growing up, but where race and economics were not so linked and there was not similar racial separation. Because the UMC Black kids are part of both groups, I think it’s SES/class primarily driving it, but it’s apparent.

Anyway, genuinely curious if this is less true at Maury?

The UMC black kids are performing a complex dance of social calibration, the sort of which becomes exhausting and ultimately futile. Life is much easier where there is easy, consistent overlap between your racial and SES group. For UMC blacks, this is never the case in DC public schools — almost universally true for white folks. Social straddling of the sort required by UMC black kids in such environments is just a necessary chore.

Shepherd, Banneker, Duke Ellington?

Charter schools. Dcps doesn’t actually teach black or brown students.

OP Here. Pouring through the minutia of data, i’ve noticed the same across various schools.. it’s really really odd.. I wouldnt put the schools listed in that category though.

Are you looking at test scores? The problem is that race is used as a proxy for SES/highly educated but you need to dig a little deeper. So while for example you can see that white kids at EH do just as well if not better as compared to Deal etc, you can also see that the total percentage of high scores is often greater than the percentage of white kids. Or another way to see it is that at EH your kid is likely (with your oversight) going to do just as well as high SES white kids because you are going to get them into algebra in 7th, monitor their homework, etc. now there may be other reasons you prefer other schools but I truly think you can expect your kid to do just as well.

The academics may be fine-ish, but most UMC blacks folks would do better in a setting with more SES diversity within the black student population or, ideally, a black population that skews UMC (or at least MC) outright. Of course, this is primarily a unicorn outside of curated private schools!

THIS. And as an aside, this is why Black folks aren't upset that McDuffie doesn't send his kids to DCPS.

Haha no. It’s not Black people as a whole in DC. Nice try though.

I will not be voting for a man who doesn’t care about public education, nor are any of my friends and colleagues (whom are Black as well).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I lived on Capitol Hill and had a black child, I would sooner send them to Friendship Chamberlain (where 3+ CAPE proficiency is 73% in both math and ELA for black students) than Maury, where it's 54 and 66%, respectively. The numbers at 4+ are even more pronounced: 46/56 at FC and 22/38 at Maury.

Since FC is 96% black and 59% at risk, there are a lot more non-at-risk black families there than at Maury (which is 20% black and 18% at risk). I'd rather go through 8th grade at Chamberlain than do Eliot-Hine, too.

OP here; I actually visited Friendship Chamberlain.. Its a LOVELY school with very focused long-term educators and staff that seemed on the ball. It's nowhere near as well resourced as some of the "better" DCPS in the area, its also in a much older building thats not in the best shape from what I saw.. but they absolutely make it work. Even watching the hall movement of the upper grades was impressive. If the program is able to add a bit of polish I think it would be highly sought after actually. Friendship should make it their flagship location. It does so much right.

[Anonymous]

Being uppity is a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're going to have a bunch of non-Black people responding to what they think the experiences of Black students are.

This feels potentially true (white Maury parent here). Hope we are wrong though and you get helpful answers. In case not and in case helpful, my kid in 5th has a diverse friend group and when I see them interact in their peer group it all seems focused on their common interests, senses of humor, etc. From what I can see, their experience isn't an outlier. The teaching staff is also diverse. And I'm not sure about going on to Eliot Hine MS but almost all the kids in my kid's class are going there. Hope parents with direct experiences respond and this helps bump up your question!

Is this really true? My kid is in 5th grade at a very similar school in many respects and I am actually struck by how racially divided friend groups are — AA and white/otherr. There are a few UMC Black kids who straddle both groups and who also have their own little social group, but otherwise it is pretty divided along racial and economic lines. Now it’s a friendly school and all of the kids seem to get along fine. There are plenty of mixed race bigger parties. But smaller parties/sleepovers? Pretty divided.

I find it really noticeable because I went to a diverse school growing up, but where race and economics were not so linked and there was not similar racial separation. Because the UMC Black kids are part of both groups, I think it’s SES/class primarily driving it, but it’s apparent.

Anyway, genuinely curious if this is less true at Maury?

The UMC black kids are performing a complex dance of social calibration, the sort of which becomes exhausting and ultimately futile. Life is much easier where there is easy, consistent overlap between your racial and SES group. For UMC blacks, this is never the case in DC public schools — almost universally true for white folks. Social straddling of the sort required by UMC black kids in such environments is just a necessary chore.

Shepherd, Banneker, Duke Ellington?

Charter schools. Dcps doesn’t actually teach black or brown students.

OP Here. Pouring through the minutia of data, i’ve noticed the same across various schools.. it’s really really odd.. I wouldnt put the schools listed in that category though.

Are you looking at test scores? The problem is that race is used as a proxy for SES/highly educated but you need to dig a little deeper. So while for example you can see that white kids at EH do just as well if not better as compared to Deal etc, you can also see that the total percentage of high scores is often greater than the percentage of white kids. Or another way to see it is that at EH your kid is likely (with your oversight) going to do just as well as high SES white kids because you are going to get them into algebra in 7th, monitor their homework, etc. now there may be other reasons you prefer other schools but I truly think you can expect your kid to do just as well.

The academics may be fine-ish, but most UMC blacks folks would do better in a setting with more SES diversity within the black student population or, ideally, a black population that skews UMC (or at least MC) outright. Of course, this is primarily a unicorn outside of curated private schools!

This is a crude measure, but the DCPS elementary and middle schools that have at least 100 more black students than at-risk students are: Beers, CHML, Deal, Eliot-Hine, Hardy, JO Wilson, Jefferson, John Francis, Leckie, Shepherd, Shirley Chisholm, Stuart-Hobson, and Watkins. Hyde-Addison, Randall Highlands, and Van Ness are pretty close. I didn't do charters but it's possible with the OSSE enrollment data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're going to have a bunch of non-Black people responding to what they think the experiences of Black students are.

This feels potentially true (white Maury parent here). Hope we are wrong though and you get helpful answers. In case not and in case helpful, my kid in 5th has a diverse friend group and when I see them interact in their peer group it all seems focused on their common interests, senses of humor, etc. From what I can see, their experience isn't an outlier. The teaching staff is also diverse. And I'm not sure about going on to Eliot Hine MS but almost all the kids in my kid's class are going there. Hope parents with direct experiences respond and this helps bump up your question!

Is this really true? My kid is in 5th grade at a very similar school in many respects and I am actually struck by how racially divided friend groups are — AA and white/otherr. There are a few UMC Black kids who straddle both groups and who also have their own little social group, but otherwise it is pretty divided along racial and economic lines. Now it’s a friendly school and all of the kids seem to get along fine. There are plenty of mixed race bigger parties. But smaller parties/sleepovers? Pretty divided.

I find it really noticeable because I went to a diverse school growing up, but where race and economics were not so linked and there was not similar racial separation. Because the UMC Black kids are part of both groups, I think it’s SES/class primarily driving it, but it’s apparent.

Anyway, genuinely curious if this is less true at Maury?

The UMC black kids are performing a complex dance of social calibration, the sort of which becomes exhausting and ultimately futile. Life is much easier where there is easy, consistent overlap between your racial and SES group. For UMC blacks, this is never the case in DC public schools — almost universally true for white folks. Social straddling of the sort required by UMC black kids in such environments is just a necessary chore.

Shepherd, Banneker, Duke Ellington?

Charter schools. Dcps doesn’t actually teach black or brown students.

OP Here. Pouring through the minutia of data, i’ve noticed the same across various schools.. it’s really really odd.. I wouldnt put the schools listed in that category though.

Are you looking at test scores? The problem is that race is used as a proxy for SES/highly educated but you need to dig a little deeper. So while for example you can see that white kids at EH do just as well if not better as compared to Deal etc, you can also see that the total percentage of high scores is often greater than the percentage of white kids. Or another way to see it is that at EH your kid is likely (with your oversight) going to do just as well as high SES white kids because you are going to get them into algebra in 7th, monitor their homework, etc. now there may be other reasons you prefer other schools but I truly think you can expect your kid to do just as well.

The academics may be fine-ish, but most UMC blacks folks would do better in a setting with more SES diversity within the black student population or, ideally, a black population that skews UMC (or at least MC) outright. Of course, this is primarily a unicorn outside of curated private schools!

I think the main issue is that by all reports.. DCPS curriculum is super easy compared to other highly rated local counties.. So the lack of black student achievement, outside of at risk.. is just odd. You generally dont see the large swath of black students greatly underperforming their cohorts in Howard County, MoCo, FCPS, Arlington(Wakefield and a few others may skew this) etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the worst part of being a POC in the Maury zone is having white women tell you the best middle and high school for your kids. I didn’t ask your opinion and I’m more than capable of choosing the appropriate school for my kids. Just because you decided to have your kid attend Eliot Hine and Eastern doesn’t mean that I need to make the same choice.

Oh for sure. But another way to see this is that I think you deserve access to the same information that is shared between white moms! I don’t think you need to make that choice but I want you to have the same information I have …

Why would you assume that white moms have information that a POC can't access? If this is a situation where the PTA or principal or someone is only sharing info with white moms, fix that with the PTA or the principal. Don't pass along info out of some sense of noblesse oblige.

And if it's not information but half-baked feelings or perceptions, don't assume that other parents want it.

Umm because I am a white mom actually sending my kid to the school? I was referring to the middle school. And of course parents always have more actual info than the PTA or principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I lived on Capitol Hill and had a black child, I would sooner send them to Friendship Chamberlain (where 3+ CAPE proficiency is 73% in both math and ELA for black students) than Maury, where it's 54 and 66%, respectively. The numbers at 4+ are even more pronounced: 46/56 at FC and 22/38 at Maury.

Since FC is 96% black and 59% at risk, there are a lot more non-at-risk black families there than at Maury (which is 20% black and 18% at risk). I'd rather go through 8th grade at Chamberlain than do Eliot-Hine, too.

lol ok enjoy that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're going to have a bunch of non-Black people responding to what they think the experiences of Black students are.

This feels potentially true (white Maury parent here). Hope we are wrong though and you get helpful answers. In case not and in case helpful, my kid in 5th has a diverse friend group and when I see them interact in their peer group it all seems focused on their common interests, senses of humor, etc. From what I can see, their experience isn't an outlier. The teaching staff is also diverse. And I'm not sure about going on to Eliot Hine MS but almost all the kids in my kid's class are going there. Hope parents with direct experiences respond and this helps bump up your question!

Is this really true? My kid is in 5th grade at a very similar school in many respects and I am actually struck by how racially divided friend groups are — AA and white/otherr. There are a few UMC Black kids who straddle both groups and who also have their own little social group, but otherwise it is pretty divided along racial and economic lines. Now it’s a friendly school and all of the kids seem to get along fine. There are plenty of mixed race bigger parties. But smaller parties/sleepovers? Pretty divided.

I find it really noticeable because I went to a diverse school growing up, but where race and economics were not so linked and there was not similar racial separation. Because the UMC Black kids are part of both groups, I think it’s SES/class primarily driving it, but it’s apparent.

Anyway, genuinely curious if this is less true at Maury?

The UMC black kids are performing a complex dance of social calibration, the sort of which becomes exhausting and ultimately futile. Life is much easier where there is easy, consistent overlap between your racial and SES group. For UMC blacks, this is never the case in DC public schools — almost universally true for white folks. Social straddling of the sort required by UMC black kids in such environments is just a necessary chore.

Shepherd, Banneker, Duke Ellington?

Charter schools. Dcps doesn’t actually teach black or brown students.

OP Here. Pouring through the minutia of data, i’ve noticed the same across various schools.. it’s really really odd.. I wouldnt put the schools listed in that category though.

Are you looking at test scores? The problem is that race is used as a proxy for SES/highly educated but you need to dig a little deeper. So while for example you can see that white kids at EH do just as well if not better as compared to Deal etc, you can also see that the total percentage of high scores is often greater than the percentage of white kids. Or another way to see it is that at EH your kid is likely (with your oversight) going to do just as well as high SES white kids because you are going to get them into algebra in 7th, monitor their homework, etc. now there may be other reasons you prefer other schools but I truly think you can expect your kid to do just as well.

The academics may be fine-ish, but most UMC blacks folks would do better in a setting with more SES diversity within the black student population or, ideally, a black population that skews UMC (or at least MC) outright. Of course, this is primarily a unicorn outside of curated private schools!

THIS. And as an aside, this is why Black folks aren't upset that McDuffie doesn't send his kids to DCPS.

The acculturation comment nails why. Also if your kids are remotely special at anything (I am thinking sports but I know it’s true for other domains too) that multiplies how complex it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I lived on Capitol Hill and had a black child, I would sooner send them to Friendship Chamberlain (where 3+ CAPE proficiency is 73% in both math and ELA for black students) than Maury, where it's 54 and 66%, respectively. The numbers at 4+ are even more pronounced: 46/56 at FC and 22/38 at Maury.

Since FC is 96% black and 59% at risk, there are a lot more non-at-risk black families there than at Maury (which is 20% black and 18% at risk). I'd rather go through 8th grade at Chamberlain than do Eliot-Hine, too.

This is a very smart analysis. I think it’s probably mostly accurate. I’d be very eagle eyed and sharp eared to make sure things were going well, but it’s a good thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I lived on Capitol Hill and had a black child, I would sooner send them to Friendship Chamberlain (where 3+ CAPE proficiency is 73% in both math and ELA for black students) than Maury, where it's 54 and 66%, respectively. The numbers at 4+ are even more pronounced: 46/56 at FC and 22/38 at Maury.

Since FC is 96% black and 59% at risk, there are a lot more non-at-risk black families there than at Maury (which is 20% black and 18% at risk). I'd rather go through 8th grade at Chamberlain than do Eliot-Hine, too.

This is a very smart analysis. I think it’s probably mostly accurate. I’d be very eagle eyed and sharp eared to make sure things were going well, but it’s a good thought.

The idea that a Jack & Jill mom is going to send her kids to Friendship PCS is just funny to me.