Is co parenting a woke male trap?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

It depends on the people involved and the quality of the relationship. Someone who absolutely refuses to do any chores at all is just dead weight. But often it's not that dire. Many men who try to turn their wives into their mothers *will* contribute, it's just that they want to be asked to do things and won't take initiative. Or they try to get out of doing especially unpleasant tasks even when they are necessary (changing diapers, toilet training, etc.). Some men are extremely sensitive to ANY criticism, so they'll do stuff but then the second their spouse says anything that could even be perceived as negative, they quit (meanwhile my DH will tell me flat out that I load the dishwasher "wrong" and I will smile and say if he wants it done a specific way, he can do it himself). Yes this is "man baby" behavior but it can sometimes be addressed by just being direct, making it clear what your expectations and limits are, etc.

I also would not tolerate someone nagging me for sex.

A conversation I had to have with my DH quite a bit, especially after we had a kid, is that I didn't want to engage in some performance of 1950s gender roles. Which means that not only do I want to cook and clean while he sits around reading the newspaper, but I also don't tolerate him painting me as a nagging wife for expecting him to clean up after himself, or behaving like he is congenitally incapable of scrubbing a toilet or helping our DD with her hair.

For me it was worth the effort. A lot of this was him reverting to patterns his parents had engaged in or that had been kind of drilled into him by society by osmosis. Forcing a conversation, being really clear about the kind of marriage I wanted, etc., helped a lot.

If it had not, I would have divorced him. But sadly a lot of men really do require "training" because social forces and family cultures have often taught them how to be lazy man babies and no one has ever told them that won't fly.

You seem to be really struggling with the basic fact that lazy men aren't just hapless and untrained. They DON'T want to do their fair share and they WON'T. What do you do then with all your BS about "training"?

Serious question but do you have a job and do you travel?

You have to train men by manipulating them. I’ve gotten far in life both personally and professionally and it’s because I know how to get what I want.

Multiple women I know who complain about their worthless husbands are always home. Men will have you doing everything if you don’t force their hand. You have to have hobbies and/or a job, and leave the house without instructions.

Look if you have a rulebook, enlighten us. Millions of women will thank you. But if being employed and leaving the house were effective at getting the weaponized-incompetence types to step up, divorce lawyers would go out of business.

Otherwise accept that your experience is yours and no one is denying it, but others aren't "doing it wrong". That's blaming women for men's failures and that's as anti-woman as it gets.

Women need to be accountable for their role in poor spouse selection. Yes, occasionally men (and women) change significantly with marriage, kids, and time. But more often they married a man with red flags, and/or zero indication the he would take care of things around the home.

This isn't blaming women for men's failures, it blaming women for their own failures to prioritize correctly and be realistic and prepared about the person they marry. Yes, sometimes men do change but 9 times of out 10 women marry these chore-avoiding husbands with their eyes wide open. How marry women prioritize chores and conscientious behaviors when dating? Very few from what I have seen.

9 times out of 10? That's very precise. I look forward to your longitudinal study on chore-doing. You must have been observing this and taking notes on a large population over the course of many decades. I'm not sure how you got that many couples to let you in their houses, and the time-use data must have been a hassle to collect, but I'm sure it was worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

Strongly disagree. Custody schedules and multiple households sounds like a PIA. Then add in a new GF/BF/spouse.

Men are typically too lazy to leave and easy to train.

You simply have to work and have a job with somewhat frequent travel. The most unequal marriages I know of are SAHMs who rarely if ever go anywhere.

Oh stahp. I’ve travelled frequently for work for years.

One, you usually just come home to a mess. I used to have to take an entire day off just to clean up the mess from while I was gone.

Two, it is absolutely ridiculous to expect women to take jobs with frequent travel because men insist on being helpless. Travel is extremely stressful, and many women don’t want those types of jobs. I mean, seriously, listen to yourself.

I’m divorced now and MUCH happier. Custody schedules aren’t a pain. I have an incredible BF who does more for me than my xH ever did, and he doesn’t even live with us. He comes over and immediately pitches in, or he brings me and the kids dinner, or he’ll often drive over just to take my trash out on trash day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

It depends on the people involved and the quality of the relationship. Someone who absolutely refuses to do any chores at all is just dead weight. But often it's not that dire. Many men who try to turn their wives into their mothers *will* contribute, it's just that they want to be asked to do things and won't take initiative. Or they try to get out of doing especially unpleasant tasks even when they are necessary (changing diapers, toilet training, etc.). Some men are extremely sensitive to ANY criticism, so they'll do stuff but then the second their spouse says anything that could even be perceived as negative, they quit (meanwhile my DH will tell me flat out that I load the dishwasher "wrong" and I will smile and say if he wants it done a specific way, he can do it himself). Yes this is "man baby" behavior but it can sometimes be addressed by just being direct, making it clear what your expectations and limits are, etc.

I also would not tolerate someone nagging me for sex.

A conversation I had to have with my DH quite a bit, especially after we had a kid, is that I didn't want to engage in some performance of 1950s gender roles. Which means that not only do I want to cook and clean while he sits around reading the newspaper, but I also don't tolerate him painting me as a nagging wife for expecting him to clean up after himself, or behaving like he is congenitally incapable of scrubbing a toilet or helping our DD with her hair.

For me it was worth the effort. A lot of this was him reverting to patterns his parents had engaged in or that had been kind of drilled into him by society by osmosis. Forcing a conversation, being really clear about the kind of marriage I wanted, etc., helped a lot.

If it had not, I would have divorced him. But sadly a lot of men really do require "training" because social forces and family cultures have often taught them how to be lazy man babies and no one has ever told them that won't fly.

You seem to be really struggling with the basic fact that lazy men aren't just hapless and untrained. They DON'T want to do their fair share and they WON'T. What do you do then with all your BS about "training"?

Serious question but do you have a job and do you travel?

You have to train men by manipulating them. I’ve gotten far in life both personally and professionally and it’s because I know how to get what I want.

Multiple women I know who complain about their worthless husbands are always home. Men will have you doing everything if you don’t force their hand. You have to have hobbies and/or a job, and leave the house without instructions.

Look if you have a rulebook, enlighten us. Millions of women will thank you. But if being employed and leaving the house were effective at getting the weaponized-incompetence types to step up, divorce lawyers would go out of business.

Otherwise accept that your experience is yours and no one is denying it, but others aren't "doing it wrong". That's blaming women for men's failures and that's as anti-woman as it gets.

Women need to be accountable for their role in poor spouse selection. Yes, occasionally men (and women) change significantly with marriage, kids, and time. But more often they married a man with red flags, and/or zero indication the he would take care of things around the home.

This isn't blaming women for men's failures, it blaming women for their own failures to prioritize correctly and be realistic and prepared about the person they marry. Yes, sometimes men do change but 9 times of out 10 women marry these chore-avoiding husbands with their eyes wide open. How marry women prioritize chores and conscientious behaviors when dating? Very few from what I have seen.

9 times out of 10? That's very precise. I look forward to your longitudinal study on chore-doing. You must have been observing this and taking notes on a large population over the course of many decades. I'm not sure how you got that many couples to let you in their houses, and the time-use data must have been a hassle to collect, but I'm sure it was worth it.

There is plenty of available data that tell us what women seeking men prioritize in a partner. Dating sites. While there is plenty of data on women seeking men with jobs, no smoking, and pet preferences, the mention of chores is so small it is essentially non-existent.

How many women moaning here dated a man with a perfectly maintained clean home or apartment, only to find out that is a total fake to trick her into a relationship and marriage? Very few. When you marry someone and expect them to change, you will always be disappointed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

It depends on the people involved and the quality of the relationship. Someone who absolutely refuses to do any chores at all is just dead weight. But often it's not that dire. Many men who try to turn their wives into their mothers *will* contribute, it's just that they want to be asked to do things and won't take initiative. Or they try to get out of doing especially unpleasant tasks even when they are necessary (changing diapers, toilet training, etc.). Some men are extremely sensitive to ANY criticism, so they'll do stuff but then the second their spouse says anything that could even be perceived as negative, they quit (meanwhile my DH will tell me flat out that I load the dishwasher "wrong" and I will smile and say if he wants it done a specific way, he can do it himself). Yes this is "man baby" behavior but it can sometimes be addressed by just being direct, making it clear what your expectations and limits are, etc.

I also would not tolerate someone nagging me for sex.

A conversation I had to have with my DH quite a bit, especially after we had a kid, is that I didn't want to engage in some performance of 1950s gender roles. Which means that not only do I want to cook and clean while he sits around reading the newspaper, but I also don't tolerate him painting me as a nagging wife for expecting him to clean up after himself, or behaving like he is congenitally incapable of scrubbing a toilet or helping our DD with her hair.

For me it was worth the effort. A lot of this was him reverting to patterns his parents had engaged in or that had been kind of drilled into him by society by osmosis. Forcing a conversation, being really clear about the kind of marriage I wanted, etc., helped a lot.

If it had not, I would have divorced him. But sadly a lot of men really do require "training" because social forces and family cultures have often taught them how to be lazy man babies and no one has ever told them that won't fly.

You seem to be really struggling with the basic fact that lazy men aren't just hapless and untrained. They DON'T want to do their fair share and they WON'T. What do you do then with all your BS about "training"?

Serious question but do you have a job and do you travel?

You have to train men by manipulating them. I’ve gotten far in life both personally and professionally and it’s because I know how to get what I want.

Multiple women I know who complain about their worthless husbands are always home. Men will have you doing everything if you don’t force their hand. You have to have hobbies and/or a job, and leave the house without instructions.

Look if you have a rulebook, enlighten us. Millions of women will thank you. But if being employed and leaving the house were effective at getting the weaponized-incompetence types to step up, divorce lawyers would go out of business.

Otherwise accept that your experience is yours and no one is denying it, but others aren't "doing it wrong". That's blaming women for men's failures and that's as anti-woman as it gets.

Women need to be accountable for their role in poor spouse selection. Yes, occasionally men (and women) change significantly with marriage, kids, and time. But more often they married a man with red flags, and/or zero indication the he would take care of things around the home.

This isn't blaming women for men's failures, it blaming women for their own failures to prioritize correctly and be realistic and prepared about the person they marry. Yes, sometimes men do change but 9 times of out 10 women marry these chore-avoiding husbands with their eyes wide open. How marry women prioritize chores and conscientious behaviors when dating? Very few from what I have seen.

9 times out of 10? That's very precise. I look forward to your longitudinal study on chore-doing. You must have been observing this and taking notes on a large population over the course of many decades. I'm not sure how you got that many couples to let you in their houses, and the time-use data must have been a hassle to collect, but I'm sure it was worth it.

There is plenty of available data that tell us what women seeking men prioritize in a partner. Dating sites. While there is plenty of data on women seeking men with jobs, no smoking, and pet preferences, the mention of chores is so small it is essentially non-existent.

How many women moaning here dated a man with a perfectly maintained clean home or apartment, only to find out that is a total fake to trick her into a relationship and marriage? Very few. When you marry someone and expect them to change, you will always be disappointed.

If your techniques with your lazy husband were working, you wouldn't be spending Saturday night be a miserable b!tch on a relationship forum. You're angry and taking it out on other women with knowingly provocative judgments. It isn't our fault that men are lazy losers, but it is your fault that you've let a man make you this bitter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

Funny, that was my example of my ex-husband you're discussing.

The only thing I liked about being married to him was the low barrier to sex. That's all he was providing. No emotional support. Just financial support and sex.

Now I have the financial support and a vibrator, and the children and I are constantly united in our disgust over his inability to adult.

I'm certainly not any worse off. But I do like sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

It depends on the people involved and the quality of the relationship. Someone who absolutely refuses to do any chores at all is just dead weight. But often it's not that dire. Many men who try to turn their wives into their mothers *will* contribute, it's just that they want to be asked to do things and won't take initiative. Or they try to get out of doing especially unpleasant tasks even when they are necessary (changing diapers, toilet training, etc.). Some men are extremely sensitive to ANY criticism, so they'll do stuff but then the second their spouse says anything that could even be perceived as negative, they quit (meanwhile my DH will tell me flat out that I load the dishwasher "wrong" and I will smile and say if he wants it done a specific way, he can do it himself). Yes this is "man baby" behavior but it can sometimes be addressed by just being direct, making it clear what your expectations and limits are, etc.

I also would not tolerate someone nagging me for sex.

A conversation I had to have with my DH quite a bit, especially after we had a kid, is that I didn't want to engage in some performance of 1950s gender roles. Which means that not only do I want to cook and clean while he sits around reading the newspaper, but I also don't tolerate him painting me as a nagging wife for expecting him to clean up after himself, or behaving like he is congenitally incapable of scrubbing a toilet or helping our DD with her hair.

For me it was worth the effort. A lot of this was him reverting to patterns his parents had engaged in or that had been kind of drilled into him by society by osmosis. Forcing a conversation, being really clear about the kind of marriage I wanted, etc., helped a lot.

If it had not, I would have divorced him. But sadly a lot of men really do require "training" because social forces and family cultures have often taught them how to be lazy man babies and no one has ever told them that won't fly.

You seem to be really struggling with the basic fact that lazy men aren't just hapless and untrained. They DON'T want to do their fair share and they WON'T. What do you do then with all your BS about "training"?

Serious question but do you have a job and do you travel?

You have to train men by manipulating them. I’ve gotten far in life both personally and professionally and it’s because I know how to get what I want.

Multiple women I know who complain about their worthless husbands are always home. Men will have you doing everything if you don’t force their hand. You have to have hobbies and/or a job, and leave the house without instructions.

Look if you have a rulebook, enlighten us. Millions of women will thank you. But if being employed and leaving the house were effective at getting the weaponized-incompetence types to step up, divorce lawyers would go out of business.

Otherwise accept that your experience is yours and no one is denying it, but others aren't "doing it wrong". That's blaming women for men's failures and that's as anti-woman as it gets.

Women need to be accountable for their role in poor spouse selection. Yes, occasionally men (and women) change significantly with marriage, kids, and time. But more often they married a man with red flags, and/or zero indication the he would take care of things around the home.

This isn't blaming women for men's failures, it blaming women for their own failures to prioritize correctly and be realistic and prepared about the person they marry. Yes, sometimes men do change but 9 times of out 10 women marry these chore-avoiding husbands with their eyes wide open. How marry women prioritize chores and conscientious behaviors when dating? Very few from what I have seen.

9 times out of 10? That's very precise. I look forward to your longitudinal study on chore-doing. You must have been observing this and taking notes on a large population over the course of many decades. I'm not sure how you got that many couples to let you in their houses, and the time-use data must have been a hassle to collect, but I'm sure it was worth it.

There is plenty of available data that tell us what women seeking men prioritize in a partner. Dating sites. While there is plenty of data on women seeking men with jobs, no smoking, and pet preferences, the mention of chores is so small it is essentially non-existent.

How many women moaning here dated a man with a perfectly maintained clean home or apartment, only to find out that is a total fake to trick her into a relationship and marriage? Very few. When you marry someone and expect them to change, you will always be disappointed.

Jfc. You can screen on a dating site for if someone has a dog or a job or smokes. Not perfectly, but enough to make it worth saying something. No one is going to admit to being a slob. The way you screen for that is seeing their home and yes, many women care about that. But once kids are in the picture and you have more pressures in general, some people handle it well and some do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

Funny, that was my example of my ex-husband you're discussing.

The only thing I liked about being married to him was the low barrier to sex. That's all he was providing. No emotional support. Just financial support and sex.

Now I have the financial support and a vibrator, and the children and I are constantly united in our disgust over his inability to adult.

I'm certainly not any worse off. But I do like sex.

PP. I love sex too! But not with men who behave like entitled teenager. Very happy with my sex life with my current BF, who acts like an adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Go away

😩

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one can make you overcompensate for a lazy parent. it’s a choice. Divorce is better because you get free from the emotional abuse. You compartmentalize and do your best to raise your kids well on your time and let the rest go.

This is my approach and my kid is thriving. I also put my kid in therapy. She can process her dad’s laziness further when she’s an adult, but Mom will not be playing martyr. It’s unhealthy and sets a very poor example.

This is the way. I wish I’d figured it out earlier, but I didn’t until middle school. By HS, I grey rocked exDH. His relationship with his kids was his responsibility. The therapist helped them set boundaries. They love their dad, but they don’t have a high opinion of him and don’t think he’s reliable.

+1. Once a deadweight, always a deadweight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

Exactly, and that will accelerate the divorce process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For me, it was a choice between doing all the work and seeing him lay on the couch, or doing all the work and not having him in the house. Yes, it is hard doing all the work, but much less stressful when he is not here in the house doing nothing.

Amen.

Send him back to his mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Example of him parentifying his daughter (and creating anxiety) and he still thinks he’s killing it at parenting.

NP and the tween parentification is a thing in our house. My ex says it’s our Dd’s fault if she’s hungry when he brings her back from visitation because she didn’t ask for meals, and said the reason she doesn’t have toiletries at his house is because she didn’t bring any over for herself to use. He recently got mad at her because she didn’t ask him questions about his life when they went out to eat together.

+1. Seeing him blame his 12 yo for his shortcomings has always been sad to see. So pathetic. And damaging until the kid wakes up and sees his gaslighting and emotional abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not really clear what you are trying to say, but I'll bite.

I divorced my xH because he didn't pull his weight. We have 50/50 custody and it's SO much less work for me. He has a court order to do half the school pickups/dropoffs, half the sick days, etc. Even bigger, I no longer have to cook for or clean up after a grown man. People really have no idea how much FOOD adult men need to be fed, or how their crap gets absolutely everywhere.

Even if he bailed completely, he'd have to pay child support AND I still wouldn't have to cook and clean for him.

I also think a LOT of men step it up when they realize their parenting will be examined in a court room by a judge. It's one thing at home behind closed doors, but another to know it could be brought out in front of complete strangers to judge.

Yes best bet is to go to court. I haven't, because I am scared of my ex and live in a dad's state, no money for court fees. He has them half the time, but doesn't help with appointments and he drops them off with me at 6am to take them to school lol. Better than living with him though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

It depends on the people involved and the quality of the relationship. Someone who absolutely refuses to do any chores at all is just dead weight. But often it's not that dire. Many men who try to turn their wives into their mothers *will* contribute, it's just that they want to be asked to do things and won't take initiative. Or they try to get out of doing especially unpleasant tasks even when they are necessary (changing diapers, toilet training, etc.). Some men are extremely sensitive to ANY criticism, so they'll do stuff but then the second their spouse says anything that could even be perceived as negative, they quit (meanwhile my DH will tell me flat out that I load the dishwasher "wrong" and I will smile and say if he wants it done a specific way, he can do it himself). Yes this is "man baby" behavior but it can sometimes be addressed by just being direct, making it clear what your expectations and limits are, etc.

I also would not tolerate someone nagging me for sex.

A conversation I had to have with my DH quite a bit, especially after we had a kid, is that I didn't want to engage in some performance of 1950s gender roles. Which means that not only do I want to cook and clean while he sits around reading the newspaper, but I also don't tolerate him painting me as a nagging wife for expecting him to clean up after himself, or behaving like he is congenitally incapable of scrubbing a toilet or helping our DD with her hair.

For me it was worth the effort. A lot of this was him reverting to patterns his parents had engaged in or that had been kind of drilled into him by society by osmosis. Forcing a conversation, being really clear about the kind of marriage I wanted, etc., helped a lot.

If it had not, I would have divorced him. But sadly a lot of men really do require "training" because social forces and family cultures have often taught them how to be lazy man babies and no one has ever told them that won't fly.

You seem to be really struggling with the basic fact that lazy men aren't just hapless and untrained. They DON'T want to do their fair share and they WON'T. What do you do then with all your BS about "training"?

Serious question but do you have a job and do you travel?

You have to train men by manipulating them. I’ve gotten far in life both personally and professionally and it’s because I know how to get what I want.

Multiple women I know who complain about their worthless husbands are always home. Men will have you doing everything if you don’t force their hand. You have to have hobbies and/or a job, and leave the house without instructions.

I don't need advice from someone whose IQ is too low to comprehend the ubiquity of utterly selfish men.

Your response makes it obvious why you couldn’t get your DH or ex-DH to co-parent!

Hello there, forum shrew. My life is worth more than playing animal trainer to an adult male. I'm sorry your life is worth less.

These responses are cruel and over the top. There’s no way you didn’t demonstrate this same behavior with your DH. If you speak like this over an internet comment I can’t even imagine how you’d treat someone while married.

You’ll just respond back with another insult and are unable to see how you played any role in your failed marriage.

[Anonymous]

What an echo chamber of total ignorance here.

If you insist on judging all men as a monolith then don’t complain when men act like it. SMH