Boomer outside counsel who insists on calling me incessantly, basically demanding I call him back

[Anonymous]

Once you start rejecting the bills for work and asking the firm to remove calls and work that you said you didn’t want this will stop. And if you are too weak to act the client and put real limits on the spend, then you deserve the bills you are getting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once you start rejecting the bills for work and asking the firm to remove calls and work that you said you didn’t want this will stop. And if you are too weak to act the client and put real limits on the spend, then you deserve the bills you are getting.

Maybe you didn't follow the chain... he's actually been discounting his work. This isn't entirely a billing issue, it's a personal space/time issue now more than anything

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Running up bill. Don't let him.
Don't call back. Email. Let him know he isn't needed to work on those extraneous things at this time.

You're in charge. You are not responsible for maintaining the relationship. I would not spend my time ot company $$ on this. Would also alert my manager.

Be very clear about "pencils down" and "do not work any further on this," make sure it's in writing over email. We had something like this come up. I also ended up transitioning away to another firm. Plenty of people cover any of these topics and you should work with someone whose style meshes with yours or at least respects how you want to work.

Fwiw I am also a WOC and much younger than the law firm partner and I was new to the company at the time. I think he thought he was in charge. Turns out he was not.

The last paragraph reeks of "chip on my shoulder." Before that you were doing great.

"You were doing great" - what a randomly condescending reply

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:op here checking in after a day or two. curious what deputy GC and big law guy would do.

So I called him back yesterday and left a message, saying essentially 'thanks for checking in with me, but we are good, i'll reach out with updates, and fyi i'm in team meetings all day today, and trying to close several other deals before FYE (true) so things are VERY busy, but happy holidays, Bob! Thanks for everything!'

He called back immediately- I was in team meetings all afternoon for real so I didn't pick up and then he called AGAIN this AM. Both times sounding terse, and not providing any detail on why we was calling, just saying 'call me back Larla'.

Huh? I do think some cognitive decline may be at play, which also excuses some of his defensiveness over substantive work and some of his other inappropriate behaviors/comments, but he's also just damned rude IMO. I am not sure why he thinks he can dictate when we speak. He is the relationship partner so there is no one else for me to call, I just have to deal and get through this period. The business knows there is an issue, and we are watching our bills (I review, but the spend comes out of a different department). It is clear that no one wants a blow up though...

OP that should have been an email from you. No more calls unless you need something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boomer incorporates a specific attitude about work style, the role of work in one’s life, the need to talk through everything, and in some cases a reluctance to use technology. Come on folks, you all know exactly what OP means. It’s the reason those videos on different generations in the workplace exist.

No.

Boomer is someone who was born following WW2, the grandparents of current college kids and 20 somethings. Senior citizens.


You know this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's sexist and stupid, and his age does have something to do with it, unfortunately.

Don't pick up. Your time and mental health are your priority. You can respond by email and write in the email that you prefer to communicate via this method.

Please do whatever it takes to not use him again for another project.

Yes, unfortunately age is part of it. He likely grew up at a time when there were no women lawyers at firms. Women were secretaries only. I'm sure he has come a long way, but it does affect one's perception, unintended or not.

That just is impossible for any Boomer lawyer. We have retired female partners from my firm who are in their 70s -- it's not like there weren't women at law firms in the 1980s and 1990s! This is not a new thing. It's also very, very rare for even older lawyers not to understand how email works. I have literally only one opposing counsel that is this way, and it's not due to his age -- it's becasue he's incompetent and also a little shady, so doesn't want things in writing.
Do you review the bills, or is that your inhouse GC? If it's your inhouse GC, let him or her know that this is going on, and that you don't think you should be paying for all these unnecessary and lengthy calls. But generally speaking, I don't see how he can force you to do this. Just don't answer his calls and send an email. Or set a quick 15 minute call for updates bimonthly, and then tell him "I'm sorry -- I need to run to my next meeting." Or just say "Thanks for the update, Bill, This call is running long and I'll need to jump off now, but please email me if there's anything I need to know."

If he's close to 80- which he probably is- then he probably went to law school in the early 70s, and no, there were not many (if any) women partners or really many women lawyers at all. Even when I started practicing in the 2000s, there were still far more many male partners than women partners.

Why 80?

Boomers were born post WW2.

They are 70 and 80 year old senior citizens.

Pelosi, Trump, Schumer, Elizabeth Warren... All boomers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude.

Eh, boomer is also about not liking technology

Hardly- a bunch of those boomers invented the technology!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:op here checking in after a day or two. curious what deputy GC and big law guy would do.

So I called him back yesterday and left a message, saying essentially 'thanks for checking in with me, but we are good, i'll reach out with updates, and fyi i'm in team meetings all day today, and trying to close several other deals before FYE (true) so things are VERY busy, but happy holidays, Bob! Thanks for everything!'

He called back immediately- I was in team meetings all afternoon for real so I didn't pick up and then he called AGAIN this AM. Both times sounding terse, and not providing any detail on why we was calling, just saying 'call me back Larla'.

Huh? I do think some cognitive decline may be at play, which also excuses some of his defensiveness over substantive work and some of his other inappropriate behaviors/comments, but he's also just damned rude IMO. I am not sure why he thinks he can dictate when we speak. He is the relationship partner so there is no one else for me to call, I just have to deal and get through this period. The business knows there is an issue, and we are watching our bills (I review, but the spend comes out of a different department). It is clear that no one wants a blow up though...

Well, I'm Biglaw Guy I guess, and honestly I'm at a loss. It's not normal behavior for a relationship manager. How old is he, really? You haven't said. And he's not saying in his follow-up calls what exactly he's calling about? Just "call me back?" That's odd too because nothing sounds open ended.

I'd ignore the calls for now, I guess, and maybe consider reaching out to one of the more junior lawyers on his team at his firm and asking them if he's ok and for their thoughts on next steps? I would try to do this in a "concerned" way, not in an "annoyed" way. Plant the seed with the law firm and see what grows, I guess.

No law firm wants an 80 year old guy on a cognitive decline managing a major client. You're doing the firm a favor. Just don't be a dick about it. Remember: you're a team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The customer is always right.
Block his number when you aren’t waiting for a call back.

Uh, no. “The customer is always right IN MATTERS OF TASTE.” And that applied to one British department store, which is now defunct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's sexist and stupid, and his age does have something to do with it, unfortunately.

Don't pick up. Your time and mental health are your priority. You can respond by email and write in the email that you prefer to communicate via this method.

Please do whatever it takes to not use him again for another project.

Yes, unfortunately age is part of it. He likely grew up at a time when there were no women lawyers at firms. Women were secretaries only. I'm sure he has come a long way, but it does affect one's perception, unintended or not.

That just is impossible for any Boomer lawyer. We have retired female partners from my firm who are in their 70s -- it's not like there weren't women at law firms in the 1980s and 1990s! This is not a new thing. It's also very, very rare for even older lawyers not to understand how email works. I have literally only one opposing counsel that is this way, and it's not due to his age -- it's becasue he's incompetent and also a little shady, so doesn't want things in writing.
Do you review the bills, or is that your inhouse GC? If it's your inhouse GC, let him or her know that this is going on, and that you don't think you should be paying for all these unnecessary and lengthy calls. But generally speaking, I don't see how he can force you to do this. Just don't answer his calls and send an email. Or set a quick 15 minute call for updates bimonthly, and then tell him "I'm sorry -- I need to run to my next meeting." Or just say "Thanks for the update, Bill, This call is running long and I'll need to jump off now, but please email me if there's anything I need to know."

If he's close to 80- which he probably is- then he probably went to law school in the early 70s, and no, there were not many (if any) women partners or really many women lawyers at all. Even when I started practicing in the 2000s, there were still far more many male partners than women partners.

Why 80?

Boomers were born post WW2.

They are 70 and 80 year old senior citizens.

Pelosi, Trump, Schumer, Elizabeth Warren... All boomers.

anyone over 59 is a boomer, genx is basically boomer they are also just as bad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's sexist and stupid, and his age does have something to do with it, unfortunately.

Don't pick up. Your time and mental health are your priority. You can respond by email and write in the email that you prefer to communicate via this method.

Please do whatever it takes to not use him again for another project.

Yes, unfortunately age is part of it. He likely grew up at a time when there were no women lawyers at firms. Women were secretaries only. I'm sure he has come a long way, but it does affect one's perception, unintended or not.

That just is impossible for any Boomer lawyer. We have retired female partners from my firm who are in their 70s -- it's not like there weren't women at law firms in the 1980s and 1990s! This is not a new thing. It's also very, very rare for even older lawyers not to understand how email works. I have literally only one opposing counsel that is this way, and it's not due to his age -- it's becasue he's incompetent and also a little shady, so doesn't want things in writing.
Do you review the bills, or is that your inhouse GC? If it's your inhouse GC, let him or her know that this is going on, and that you don't think you should be paying for all these unnecessary and lengthy calls. But generally speaking, I don't see how he can force you to do this. Just don't answer his calls and send an email. Or set a quick 15 minute call for updates bimonthly, and then tell him "I'm sorry -- I need to run to my next meeting." Or just say "Thanks for the update, Bill, This call is running long and I'll need to jump off now, but please email me if there's anything I need to know."

If he's close to 80- which he probably is- then he probably went to law school in the early 70s, and no, there were not many (if any) women partners or really many women lawyers at all. Even when I started practicing in the 2000s, there were still far more many male partners than women partners.

Why 80?

Boomers were born post WW2.

They are 70 and 80 year old senior citizens.

Pelosi, Trump, Schumer, Elizabeth Warren... All boomers.

anyone over 59 is a boomer, genx is basically boomer they are also just as bad

You should hear what we think about YOU, mil!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude.

Eh, boomer is also about not liking technology

Boomers invented the technology.

Boom!

Do you know how stupid you sound when you type “Boom!?” Just wondering, because it seems like you don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude.

Eh, boomer is also about not liking technology

Boomers invented the technology.

Boom!

Do you know how stupid you sound when you type “Boom!?” Just wondering, because it seems like you don’t.

Boing!

(Hitting that nerve hard.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schedule a bi monthly 30 minute check in and when he wants to talk tell him to hold for that meeting.

This. All these other responses with people getting mad because you correctly described his gender and generation are nuts.

But you do need to get it together and cut this off with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh. I would contact his boss and say the constant calls with no new updates are getting to be excessive and to talk to him about professionalism.

Yeah that 61+ lawyer will really GAF about calling his/her boss.

A 61 yr old service partner trying to eek out a few more years of the gravy train to fund alimony for the ex wife or two and the lifestyle of his unemployed children who studied basket weaving a Reed may very well care.

It’s “eke”. I’ve seen this misspelling a thousand times on here, and you can’t blame spellcheck given how seldom anyone needs to say or write “eek”.