Boomer outside counsel who insists on calling me incessantly, basically demanding I call him back

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the Biglaw lawyer. For real.

Seriously, OP, you just have to email or call the guy and just tell him point blank that he's got to cut back on the calls because you're under pressure to keep fees down. Or, as I said before, you could ask/instruct the he not bill for them. Or if he really is a so-called "service partner," you could reach out to the billing partner and have a respectful conversation with him and ask that he intervene discreetly instead.

I suspect, though, that it's not so much the billing that's bothering you. I'll bet in the scheme of things it's not very much. You just feel disrespected, being younger and being a woman. If that's what's really driving this, I suggest that you just shrug it off. I know that that's easier said than done, but really -- is what's going on here that disruptive and that worthy of so much of your energy?

Put him on mute while he's talking. Multi-task. Hell, peruse DCUM while rolling your eyes. Whatever keeps him from getting inside of your head.

What you're describing is an exceedingly minor -- and very common -- thing in the life of in house counsel in Corporate America dealing with Big Law.

I am a Deputy GC at a company that hires Big Law. And I am female. Put up with this? Bad advice. That firm works for you, not the other way around. You have to be direct with this guy and the relationship partner if that is someone different. Also, who in your company manages the account with this firm?Maybe have a discussion with that person about your concerns. The attorneys in my group come to me if they have complaints or concerns about any of the outside lawyers. We don’t put up with outside counsel not respecting the in house lawyers. We will and have taken some attorneys off our account for that reason.

The outside counsel is there to make your life easier. If that isn’t happening, fire them.

Yeah but in this situation it sounds like she does actually kind of need his expertise on this particular project and it sounds like they are getting close to the finish line so I’d probably just suggest managing him as best you can until it wraps and then get new counsel.

Honestly, it sounds like he could have some age related cognitive decline that’s impacting his behavior.

Ultimately, you are the client and for whatever reason your company is choosing to use him as outside counsel.

[Anonymous]

I have only read page 1, but OP, why are you asking what to do and acting like you are powerless in the situation? You are the client. Don't let OC bill for unnecessary phone calls or ask for unnecessary work. It would be fiscally irresponsible, and your duty is to your employer, not to outside counsel. Don't engage on the phone calls. If you don't feel comfortable explaining this, ask someone else to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boomer incorporates a specific attitude about work style, the role of work in one’s life, the need to talk through everything, and in some cases a reluctance to use technology. Come on folks, you all know exactly what OP means. It’s the reason those videos on different generations in the workplace exist.

We had one of the younger people in our office suggest those videos and everyone hated them including the other young people, who felt very steeltyped by them.
I’m a lawyer and I’m just saying this isn’t really Boomer issues. This is more likely just a guy that doesn’t have enough work to find his desired income. He is talkkkg about tangential things to try to drum up additional business. That works with some clients but apparently not OP and he hasn’t read the room properly. Unfortunately, almost all rain making is stupid and irritating so even if you feel llle you’re being stupid and irritating, that’s not the metric for whether you’re being successful. Business development is sales and sales people are almost always irritating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude.

Eh, boomer is also about not liking technology

Boomers invented the technology.

Boom![/quote
Billable hours? Or the ai ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude.

Eh, boomer is also about not liking technology

Boomers invented the technology.

Boom![/quote
Billable hours? Or the ai ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude.

Eh, boomer is also about not liking technology

Boomers invented the technology.

Boom!

Billable hours? Or the ai ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boomer incorporates a specific attitude about work style, the role of work in one’s life, the need to talk through everything, and in some cases a reluctance to use technology. Come on folks, you all know exactly what OP means. It’s the reason those videos on different generations in the workplace exist.

We had one of the younger people in our office suggest those videos and everyone hated them including the other young people, who felt very steeltyped by them.
I’m a lawyer and I’m just saying this isn’t really Boomer issues. This is more likely just a guy that doesn’t have enough work to find his desired income. He is talkkkg about tangential things to try to drum up additional business. That works with some clients but apparently not OP and he hasn’t read the room properly. Unfortunately, almost all rain making is stupid and irritating so even if you feel llle you’re being stupid and irritating, that’s not the metric for whether you’re being successful. Business development is sales and sales people are almost always irritating.

The org may be somewhat at fault for not setting clear expectations on what they're willing to pay for. If OP doesn't feel comfortable explaining that to OC, a stakeholder who is interested in the org's profits should. And someone should be willing to review the bill rather than just pay it.

[Anonymous]

You have an 80 year old boomer still working?

Or is he a younger boomer around 65/70 years old?

Since boomers were born in the 2 decades immediately following WW2 (roughly the 1940s and 1950s, through the early 1960s) is it possible that your geriatric outside counsel is in early dementia? That can happen to senior citizens (boomers) in their 70s and 80s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the Biglaw lawyer. For real.

Seriously, OP, you just have to email or call the guy and just tell him point blank that he's got to cut back on the calls because you're under pressure to keep fees down. Or, as I said before, you could ask/instruct the he not bill for them. Or if he really is a so-called "service partner," you could reach out to the billing partner and have a respectful conversation with him and ask that he intervene discreetly instead.

I suspect, though, that it's not so much the billing that's bothering you. I'll bet in the scheme of things it's not very much. You just feel disrespected, being younger and being a woman. If that's what's really driving this, I suggest that you just shrug it off. I know that that's easier said than done, but really -- is what's going on here that disruptive and that worthy of so much of your energy?

Put him on mute while he's talking. Multi-task. Hell, peruse DCUM while rolling your eyes. Whatever keeps him from getting inside of your head.

What you're describing is an exceedingly minor -- and very common -- thing in the life of in house counsel in Corporate America dealing with Big Law.

I am a Deputy GC at a company that hires Big Law. And I am female. Put up with this? Bad advice. That firm works for you, not the other way around. You have to be direct with this guy and the relationship partner if that is someone different. Also, who in your company manages the account with this firm?Maybe have a discussion with that person about your concerns. The attorneys in my group come to me if they have complaints or concerns about any of the outside lawyers. We don’t put up with outside counsel not respecting the in house lawyers. We will and have taken some attorneys off our account for that reason.

The outside counsel is there to make your life easier. If that isn’t happening, fire them.

I never said "put up with it." In fact, much of what you're saying here is exactly what I myself recommended.

I merely suggested that, if the real concern is that she feels "disrespected" because she's younger than him or a woman, that might not be what's happening at all. For all she knows, he's like this with everyone. In which case it's just a personality thing.

And if you're a Deputy AG who has time to deal with what really just sounds like a pretty petty complaint like this, you must not be a very busy one!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Running up bill. Don't let him.
Don't call back. Email. Let him know he isn't needed to work on those extraneous things at this time.

You're in charge. You are not responsible for maintaining the relationship. I would not spend my time ot company $$ on this. Would also alert my manager.

Be very clear about "pencils down" and "do not work any further on this," make sure it's in writing over email. We had something like this come up. I also ended up transitioning away to another firm. Plenty of people cover any of these topics and you should work with someone whose style meshes with yours or at least respects how you want to work.

Fwiw I am also a WOC and much younger than the law firm partner and I was new to the company at the time. I think he thought he was in charge. Turns out he was not.

[Anonymous]

PP here. I'll add two things.

First, I suggested the "disrespect" thing might just be in her head because she said "I'm a woman and younger so I'm sure he doesn't think I'm someone he has to treat with respect." That's quite the leap.

Second, she appears to be saying that he spends a lot of time on the phone with her trying to get additional work. If that's the case, then he should be billing "client development" or something and not the client. So, again, as I suggested earlier, she should point blank tell him not to bill for that time.

OR, maybe he's actually suggesting follow-up strategies that she, with her more limited experience, isn't thinking of herself? I mean, whether he has a penis or not he does have a lot more experience than her and maybe some of the things that he is suggested are good and helpful ideas?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Running up bill. Don't let him.
Don't call back. Email. Let him know he isn't needed to work on those extraneous things at this time.

You're in charge. You are not responsible for maintaining the relationship. I would not spend my time ot company $$ on this. Would also alert my manager.

Be very clear about "pencils down" and "do not work any further on this," make sure it's in writing over email. We had something like this come up. I also ended up transitioning away to another firm. Plenty of people cover any of these topics and you should work with someone whose style meshes with yours or at least respects how you want to work.

Fwiw I am also a WOC and much younger than the law firm partner and I was new to the company at the time. I think he thought he was in charge. Turns out he was not.

The last paragraph reeks of "chip on my shoulder." Before that you were doing great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Running up bill. Don't let him.
Don't call back. Email. Let him know he isn't needed to work on those extraneous things at this time.

You're in charge. You are not responsible for maintaining the relationship. I would not spend my time ot company $$ on this. Would also alert my manager.

Be very clear about "pencils down" and "do not work any further on this," make sure it's in writing over email. We had something like this come up. I also ended up transitioning away to another firm. Plenty of people cover any of these topics and you should work with someone whose style meshes with yours or at least respects how you want to work.

Fwiw I am also a WOC and much younger than the law firm partner and I was new to the company at the time. I think he thought he was in charge. Turns out he was not.

The last paragraph reeks of "chip on my shoulder." Before that you were doing great.

I feel great and frankly couple care less if you think I have a chip on my shoulder. There's no point in being naive about the world

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Running up bill. Don't let him.
Don't call back. Email. Let him know he isn't needed to work on those extraneous things at this time.

You're in charge. You are not responsible for maintaining the relationship. I would not spend my time ot company $$ on this. Would also alert my manager.

Be very clear about "pencils down" and "do not work any further on this," make sure it's in writing over email. We had something like this come up. I also ended up transitioning away to another firm. Plenty of people cover any of these topics and you should work with someone whose style meshes with yours or at least respects how you want to work.

Fwiw I am also a WOC and much younger than the law firm partner and I was new to the company at the time. I think he thought he was in charge. Turns out he was not.

The last paragraph reeks of "chip on my shoulder." Before that you were doing great.

I feel great and frankly couple care less if you think I have a chip on my shoulder. There's no point in being naive about the world

Happy to hear that you feel that way. But yea, you have a chip alright.

[Anonymous]

op here checking in after a day or two. curious what deputy GC and big law guy would do.

So I called him back yesterday and left a message, saying essentially 'thanks for checking in with me, but we are good, i'll reach out with updates, and fyi i'm in team meetings all day today, and trying to close several other deals before FYE (true) so things are VERY busy, but happy holidays, Bob! Thanks for everything!'

He called back immediately- I was in team meetings all afternoon for real so I didn't pick up and then he called AGAIN this AM. Both times sounding terse, and not providing any detail on why we was calling, just saying 'call me back Larla'.

Huh? I do think some cognitive decline may be at play, which also excuses some of his defensiveness over substantive work and some of his other inappropriate behaviors/comments, but he's also just damned rude IMO. I am not sure why he thinks he can dictate when we speak. He is the relationship partner so there is no one else for me to call, I just have to deal and get through this period. The business knows there is an issue, and we are watching our bills (I review, but the spend comes out of a different department). It is clear that no one wants a blow up though...